What beats what in competitive sailing

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General Gps & Speed Waves Foiling Gear Reviews Lost & Found WA NSW QLD SA VIC TAS

MikeyS

VIC

1509 posts

MikeyS

VIC, 1509 posts

7 Feb 2007 7:46pm

Anyone who says windsurfing isn't competitive, even if you're just out for a blast, is kidding themselves. And if you're like me, every time you sail in company, you probably try to work out who is "B.O.B" (Best on Board). Just like flight attendants do on every flight, except on the water looks don't count.

I reckon the pecking order can be worked out by ranking different "competing" duels or tricks, just like ranking hands in poker, just like a pair beats a high card. And so anyone who can loop is instantly respected by me as a better sailor. And the person who performs the highest trick is B.O.B. for that session.

In order from lowest rank to highest, for flat water or B&J (and ignoring freestyle or waves, I think it goes:
-sailing faster than opponent
-sailing more upwind than opponent at same speed
-planing out of gybe
-moderate air
-massive air
-duck gybe
-short board tack
-helitack
-forward loop
-back loop

Anyone care to add to or amend this short list. Remember, highest trick (which I've said for the moment is a backloop) has to dominate over all lesser tricks.

hardie

4133 posts

hardie

WA, 4133 posts

7 Feb 2007 6:00pm

Impaling your sail on a channel mark, has to get some street cred?

Leech

1933 posts

Leech

WA, 1933 posts

7 Feb 2007 6:19pm

That's windsurfing's equivalent of poker's "low"

elmo

8895 posts

elmo

WA, 8895 posts

7 Feb 2007 6:21pm

Paper wraps Rock

Leech

1933 posts

Leech

WA, 1933 posts

7 Feb 2007 6:22pm

Mikey, where do waveriding moves fit in your pecking order?

bottom turn, off-the-lip, backside air, frontside air, wave-360, goiter, etc.

Pushloop dominates backloop.

MikeyS

VIC

1509 posts

MikeyS

VIC, 1509 posts

7 Feb 2007 8:33pm

quote:
Originally posted by Leech

Mikey, where do waveriding moves fit in your pecking order?

bottom turn, off-the-lip, backside air, frontside air, wave-360, goiter, etc.

Probably in a different ranking because the stuff you do to become B.O.B. in the waves is different (although harder) than for flat/bump water. I'm sure a wave move ranking could be worked out. Sailing jaws, irrespective of the outcome would rank pretty high.

nebbian

6277 posts

nebbian

WA, 6277 posts

7 Feb 2007 6:40pm

Head dips and rail rides do it for me

Chris 249

NSW

3585 posts

Chris 249

NSW, 3585 posts

7 Feb 2007 11:29pm

I like Nebbian's idea (as you can tell by the pic)

, but what I can't work out is why so many windsurfers (judging partly from what is written about in the European forums) seem to get so excited about going faster than their mates just because they have bought newer and faster gear. It proves absolutely nothing apart from the fact that you're a consumer, just like the big companies want you to be.

Straight-line flat-out speed doesn't rate at all high to me unless you're on identical gear, and even then it's only one aspect. The ability to turn well and to keep the board moving at all times is more important in my opinion. Racing shows that many people can get high peak speeds, the real skill is in going fast all the time.

Loops and other moves are hot, of course.

bubs

924 posts

bubs

SA, 924 posts

7 Feb 2007 11:13pm

My list with same things is:

- sailing faster than opponent

- short board tack (depends how short. If 155cm is short then i cant do that. So i don't know why thats high on your list. Unless i am mistaken for something else.)

- sailing more upwind than opponent at same speed

- moderate air

- massive air

- helitack

- planing out of gybe

- duck gybe

- back loop

- forward loop

But hey thats just me. I might have mistaken some of these moves so sorry if it seems way out. Let me know if you think i'm wrong.

bubs

Mark _australia

23695 posts

Mark _australia

WA, 23695 posts

7 Feb 2007 10:37pm

quote:
Originally posted by Leech

.......
Pushloop dominates backloop.

Porky's rectum it does

Leech

1933 posts

Leech

WA, 1933 posts

8 Feb 2007 12:21am

well they certainly look better!

shear tip

NSW

1125 posts

shear tip

NSW, 1125 posts

8 Feb 2007 11:25am

So where does a planing duck gybe around a 15ft White Pointer fit in?

X-man

325 posts

X-man

WA, 325 posts

8 Feb 2007 10:13am

I say air jibe and land your fin into the white pointer haha!
Chris, what I dont respect is categorising "euros" on forums... Having said that in a rather nice way i agree with your point of being fast all the time. Perfomance slalom gear is not that easy to jibe perfectly planing out of it, some guy sailing with a 6.5 race sail and race board just flying through his jibes while i'm on a 5.0 inspires respect!
In waves: aerial 360, goiter, aerial table top or aerial front loop, thats the ****!!

In Jumps: Table forward, pushloops.. all this quite remains in the domain of the pros tho.
Being confortable with whatever you do on the water would make you the BOB, as long as you can actually do things

The Craw

229 posts

The Craw

WA, 229 posts

8 Feb 2007 10:29am

hitting reef and crashing,
beats
hitting sandbar and crashing,
beats
spinout and crashing

Flipper

QLD

34 posts

Flipper

QLD, 34 posts

8 Feb 2007 11:30am

Good point ggf,

Don't forget "just crashing for no *** reason".

Chris 249

NSW

3585 posts

Chris 249

NSW, 3585 posts

8 Feb 2007 1:22pm

quote:
Originally posted by X-man

I say air jibe and land your fin into the white pointer haha!
Chris, what I dont respect is categorising "euros" on forums... Having said that in a rather nice way i agree with your point of being fast all the time. Perfomance slalom gear is not that easy to jibe perfectly planing out of it, some guy sailing with a 6.5 race sail and race board just flying through his jibes while i'm on a 5.0 inspires respect!
In waves: aerial 360, goiter, aerial table top or aerial front loop, thats the ****!!
In Jumps: Table forward, pushloops.. all this quite remains in the domain of the pros tho.
Being confortable with whatever you do on the water would make you the BOB, as long as you can actually do things

I didn't mean to say all Euros on forums thought that way, and I don't think my post had to be read that way (although it was reasonable to do so). It's just that some windsurfers do think that way and it seems most apparent on the Europe-based forums. You see so many posts where people write as if buying new gear to go past their mates is the most important thing in the sport.

I'll change my post to make it more obvious that I wasn't dissing all European sailors.

These days pretty much all I do is one design, which means that there's not much doubt about who is "B.O.B.". When it's all so up-front and undeniable, it seems that people can get over the idea that being faster is all that important in the pecking order. It actually seems a lot more relaxed because everything is so honest and so well reflected in the results (although not perfectly) that you can't really pretend or make excuses to the same extent. WHen you get beaten you have to accept it and take it on the chin and just relax about it. After all, it's no big deal to be a better or worse windsurfer.

Leech

1933 posts

Leech

WA, 1933 posts

8 Feb 2007 11:36am

quote:
Originally posted by Flipper

Good point ggf,

Don't forget "just crashing for no *** reason".

ROFLMAO

Wineman

NSW

1412 posts

Wineman

NSW, 1412 posts

8 Feb 2007 2:42pm

quote:
Originally posted by X-man

I say air jibe and land your fin into the white pointer haha!

it would want to be a good shot!

Being towed out top sea by a verrrry angry white would be a bit scary

X-man

325 posts

X-man

WA, 325 posts

8 Feb 2007 2:05pm

No problem chris I see where you are coming from

sick_em_rex

NSW

1601 posts

sick_em_rex

NSW, 1601 posts

8 Feb 2007 4:21pm

body drag???
table top chop hop???

Jakub

29 posts

Jakub

WA, 29 posts

8 Feb 2007 3:05pm

I think the catapult straight after beach start/water start needs to be mentioned.

I also used to be quite profficient in 360 catapults - a catapult when you are thrown forward, still in harness, which then pulls you back towards the rig. You end up pretty much where you started. Spectacular!

Leech

1933 posts

Leech

WA, 1933 posts

8 Feb 2007 4:17pm

quote:
Originally posted by Jakub

I think the catapult straight after beach start/water start needs to be mentioned.

I also used to be quite profficient in 360 catapults - a catapult when you are thrown forward, still in harness, which then pulls you back towards the rig. You end up pretty much where you started. Spectacular!

Much under-rated

MikeyS

VIC

1509 posts

MikeyS

VIC, 1509 posts

8 Feb 2007 7:07pm

quote:
360 catapults - a catapult when you are thrown forward, still in harness, which then pulls you back towards the rig. You end up pretty much where you started. Spectacular!

Yup. Any spectacular crash scores big- if you make it look as though you did it deliberately.

Haggar

QLD

1670 posts

Haggar

QLD, 1670 posts

8 Feb 2007 9:46pm

Actually
- catapult and trashing harness and

- catapult and cracking rib

The Craw

229 posts

The Craw

WA, 229 posts

8 Feb 2007 10:18pm

-and todays one,
coming into beach full speed start jibing but then hit by a bullet gust resulting in a panick dismount as beach was aproaching faster than one can jibe landing in 6 inches of water

ouch!

shear tip

NSW

1125 posts

shear tip

NSW, 1125 posts

9 Feb 2007 12:54am

...or sailing into 35cm of water with a 40cm fin.

bubs

924 posts

bubs

SA, 924 posts

9 Feb 2007 12:37am

How about coming in quick with family (grandparent, cousins, parents, brother) sitting on shore. Last run of the day (my birthday, extreamily tired) in 20cm of water with small wave fin trying as bigger chop hop as you can, then coming a huge stack right infront of them. And then not even being able to carry your own gear out the water when you foot hurt so much (not so sure why but i was prity cut up in a few places).

My cousin my age and my brother loved it, but as for the elders ......... it wasn't so highly respected. Just lucky i was only sailing with one other guy who was out on the water.

bubs

Jakub

29 posts

Jakub

WA, 29 posts

9 Feb 2007 12:11am

quote:

Yup. Any spectacular crash scores big- if you make it look as though you did it deliberately.

I actually remember when a friend did the beach start - catapult move and another friend - total beginner - thought it was a really coll trick and he wanted to be just as good as the other guy.

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