On another forum (ahem) I've come across a statement that a camless sail will pull you up onto the plane quicker than a cammed sail. The poster referred to some test results that supported this (unfortunately unavailable). I'm sceptical about this.

So then, all things being about equal (boards, fins sailor etc), and say you have a pair of 7.5 freeride sails, one with 2 cams and one designed without, which would get you going first?

I think its more about the softness of the sail.
A very rigid Race sail is harder to pump with then say a no-cam or 2 cam free ride sail.
of coarse once going the Cam sails really pushes through the lulls a lot better.
never actually tested it head to head though.

ikw777 said...

On another forum (ahem) I've come across a statement that a camless sail will pull you up onto the plane quicker than a cammed sail. The poster referred to some test results that supported this (unfortunately unavailable). I'm sceptical about this.

So then, all things being about equal (boards, fins sailor etc), and say you have a pair of 7.5 freeride sails, one with 2 cams and one designed without, which would get you going first?

Reading between the lions lines of your Q Ian da new Lions really do have a huge wind range
I always reckoned my camless Retro's got me planing earlier but since I bought a new 7.5, 2cam Lion (only used it 3 times so far) it's got about the same bottom end doesn't need as huge a pumping effort to get planing and a much better top end.
About halfa kg lighter than the Retro, and 1kg lighter than my old Race sail, no mono, rotates almost like a camless sail, prolly never be as fast as a race sail but lots more fun IMHO

id say definitely cammed but are we talking per square meter here or what because wouldnt you usually take out a much bigger cammed sail .

DAM71 said...

Boards magazine tested this about a year or so back. They compared 2 point 7 sails. The ac3 and the camless version, size was around a 7.0. The results came back that the no cam rig planed earlier and was faster on all points of sail, except deep off the wind, or when the wind increased (overpowered conditions).

DAM71 said...

Boards magazine tested this about a year or so back. They compared 2 point 7 sails. The ac3 and the camless version, size was around a 7.0. The results came back that the no cam rig planed earlier and was faster on all points of sail, except deep off the wind, or when the wind increased (overpowered conditions).

I looked for thiws online but couldnt find it, but still

Given this, I am wondering if anyone has tried the NP Hellcat back to back with NP H2? I am at a crux where I am about to buy my first ever set up of go fast gear and want to get it right so I can up my GPS speeds to the max they can be through Winter. Any experience and feedback welcome. happy to go rotational as they will work on my XCombat masts, but if they are indeed slower will go the whole hog. cheers

Recently I purchased Hot Sail Maui Speed Demons, a 7.3 and 6.6. From My GPS I'm finding them quite fast. Getting consistent 28 knot speeds on them and a nautical mile of over 26 knots. I find them quite light in the hands, soft handling. It's easy to close the gap on them and rake the sail back. They are stable in the gusts. Every time I sail with them, which has been only a few times I think I'm learning a bit more about them. I hope to get over 30 knots with a Speed Demon fairly soon. I'll aim to improve my nautical mile too.

I'm really enjoying sailing with them. The price was very good too. They are beautifully finished with for example leather covering high wear areas. As funding permits I plan to buy an 8m and a 6m Speed Demon. In my eyes they look a bit plain though. A lot of clear mono film. But the way they work, makes up for the looks. Great value for money.

I've used cammed sails before, Pryde and North race sails, an RS 6 7.2m and Warp 7.8m. For someone at my level they don't offer much improvement in performance however they are a hassle to rig, are heavy and are not much fun to waterstart.

SeverneSails said...

All things being equal -Twin cams should plane earlier and push through lulls without coming off the plane as soon as a No cam sail.

In the Severne range the twin cam sail- The Turbo - will plane earlier and hold through lulls better than the no Cam NCX.

But the NCX actually has a faster top end! Falling somewhere between the Turbo and the Overdrive.



In fact the NCX is widely regarded as being the fastest and best handling no cam freeride sail you can get you hands on - testers conclusions. I think we need to do a better job of making the public aware how good the NCXs actually are

you could say we need to get windsurfers to

" NCXPECT more from your freeride sails "

There are 4 or 5 NCX reviews from the magazines on this page: so you can take someone else's opinion into consideration.

http://www.severnesails.com/2012/media/test_result.php

i think this will help anyone researching their fast no cam freeride purchase. The conclusions are quite convincing.

All This performance comes at a price - usually around $50 to $100 cheaper than any serious competitors in this category.

In all respect, that may well be so but I traded my (unused) 6.5 & 7.5 NCX for Ezzy Freerides. Not happy with the look of them in terms of durability.
I know a guy who bought an NCX and the stitching was coming undone. He traded it for an Ezzy Infinity.
I have now bought Ezzy Infinities and they may not plane earlier than the Ezzy Freerides, (hard for me to tell as they are a different size), but I prefer them as they are more stable as you point out.

Mark _australia said...

I just want a waveslalom sail with the removable cams that I can use on my Bombora

Then I have the best of both worlds.

Uncle Neil made them in 1989 and they were rad.

I had the RAF-CAM waves back then, from memory just a single removable cam above the boom. Nice sail - pastel colours - AWESOME.

Thanks for your responses guys.

I got an email from Pieter at NP, and he said that in normal conditions the Hellcat is very fast, and just as fast as H2 and RS Slalom. But when it gets to the overpowered stage that is when the RS Slalom comes into play as it is more stable due to the cams and wide luff sleeve. Pieter said the Hellcat can still be as fast when overpowered but requires a really good technique in these conditions as the Hellcat won't be as stable and easily held down as an RS. Great service being able to chat to the sail designers online.

Quiver of Hellcats it is - Yer Har

Cams everytime

^^^^^^^ Good advice - Chris and Sam from WSnS recommended cammed big sail and RAF smalls.

Thanks also to Mark Jordan for his advice and letting me have a run on his 113L Falcon - that thing moves!

Ended up 7.8m RS Slalom, 6.7m + 5.7m hellcats - ewwwwwwwwwwww! Just in time for this weekend!!!!!

AJEaster said...

^^^^^^^ Good advice - Chris and Sam from WSnS recommended cammed big sail and RAF smalls.

Thanks also to Mark Jordan for his advice and letting me have a run on his 113L Falcon - that thing moves!

Ended up 7.8m RS Slalom, 6.7m + 5.7m hellcats - ewwwwwwwwwwww! Just in time for this weekend!!!!!

Haven't you seen the latest BoM report?? 4-6 knts on Sat and Sunday, peaking at 8 knots on Monday...[}:)][}:)]

Seriously, keen to see the new speed machine in action!

Beaglebuddy said...

I'm certainly no expert by any means but aren't cammed sails generally for overpowered situations where you are trying to go as fast as possible? they have more battens and will be more stable when overpowered as the battens will keep the sail from distorting and the COE from shifting. Cams for top end.
Where as the non cammed sail can suddenly fill up with wind and pop you up onto a plane with a quick burst.

Cams can advance both top and bottom end

Depends on the sail design and all the other variables.

The Turbo is designed for low end grunt - and sailing moderatley powered up- with an easy rotation (its a different cam)

While the Reflex 3 has all the technology to deliver incredible bottom and top end

Yep, what he said.
Just buy something and enjoy it!

AJEaster said...



Ended up 7.8m RS Slalom, 6.7m + 5.7m hellcats - ewwwwwwwwwwww! Just in time for this weekend!!!!!

You've thrown down the gauntlet Mr. Easter! It will be interesting to see what these puppies will do to your GPS PB's!

Yeah I reckon you'll need that van now!

Technique helps