Which is faster....?

> 10 years ago
Reply
Register to post, see what you've read, and subscribe to topics.
Harrow
Harrow
NSW
4521 posts
NSW, 4521 posts
1 Apr 2008 3:06pm
Sailing on salt water, or fresh?

and.....

Would spraying the bottom of your board with silicon speed you up or slow you down???
SeanAUS120
SeanAUS120
QLD
769 posts
QLD, 769 posts
1 Apr 2008 2:11pm
Salt is by far faster... much more buoyancy for your board so there's less drag.

Jury is out on whether sprays such as silicone/teflon etc make you any faster. I've used some of the Holmenkol products and believe they work well on the boards (they're based on nano-technology :)); however I've never done any 2-boat testing to prove it... just mental.
barn
barn
WA
2960 posts
WA, 2960 posts
1 Apr 2008 12:22pm
i dare u to post this on the gps and speed sailing, youll never here the end of it haha, id say there is no diference, yes salt has more boyancy, but when a windsurfer is planing its skimming across the waters surface, so the fact that there are salt molecules in the water shouldent change its thinkness or whatever affects this phennonomen?? probs have to ask a fluid mechanics whizz... i doubt it... also...

saltwater = ocean= tides, sandy point has a huge tide going with the wind.. cant say that doesnt ad a couple knots to gps times!! (hahaha im guna get a spay for sayin that)

the current speed record is held on flat water
555
555
892 posts
555 555
892 posts
1 Apr 2008 12:43pm
I wonder if soaping the water would help?? It would greatly decrease the skin tension of the water, which should make it easier to get through.

Of course, soapy water in your eyes isn't a good thing, and all those foamy suds blowing around the speed strip might cause some consternation.

How about gloss vs. matt paint finishes? Or that hydrophobic paint stuff they use on powerboats?
DavMen
DavMen
NSW
1510 posts
NSW, 1510 posts
1 Apr 2008 3:54pm
My guess - saltwater is denser - More drag on the fin.

Wouldn't tiny air bubles on the hull reduce friction - as in olympic swimmwers special suits. Maybe you need this sort of texture (capture the bubles) on the bottom third of the boards hull? - dunno about silicone though.

eyeMhardcor
eyeMhardcor
255 posts
255 posts
1 Apr 2008 2:49pm
Red board and fin.
DavMen
DavMen
NSW
1510 posts
NSW, 1510 posts
1 Apr 2008 6:21pm
eyeMhardcor said...

Red board and fin.


Offcourse..... 'The Ferrari Principle'.....forgot about that one.
SeanAUS120
SeanAUS120
QLD
769 posts
QLD, 769 posts
1 Apr 2008 6:23pm
barn said...

id say there is no diference, yes salt has more boyancy, but when a windsurfer is planing its skimming across the waters surface, so the fact that there are salt molecules in the water shouldent change its thinkness or whatever affects this phennonomen??


Even when planing, a board has to displace water. So buoyancy (from salt water) would definitely help keep the board floating more and not dragging in the water. I would imagine at 49 knots you are doing a lot more of the "skimming" than at 30 knots but you still need to GET to 49 knots so salt will help.

All the speed records are done on salt (ocean) water. Any sailing I have done on fresh water lakes is 5% slower than similar wind strengths on salt water.

I don't think having materials that produce air bubbles would help us (open to suggestion though?). We require lift from our fins to generate forward motion, created from the power generated in our sail and transfered from our arms-to-legs-to-fin, whereas a swimmer is trying to reduce drag as much as possible and gets the power from its arm/leg propulsion. So I reckon the bubbles would be counter productive and probably cause you to spin out quite a bit... $700 to Speedo and some duct tape and you can test that theory out for us however ;)
Pugwash
Pugwash
WA
7733 posts
WA, 7733 posts
1 Apr 2008 4:40pm
PM goodbrewster... He'll have a few opinions on this one

Does the density difference between fresh and salt water mean more drag on the fin
nebbian
nebbian
WA
6277 posts
WA, 6277 posts
1 Apr 2008 5:14pm
SeanAUS120 said...


All the speed records are done on salt (ocean) water. Any sailing I have done on fresh water lakes is 5% slower than similar wind strengths on salt water.


Seriously, how can you tell? 5% is lower than the error you'd get in wind readings.
barn
barn
WA
2960 posts
WA, 2960 posts
1 Apr 2008 5:28pm
i think the trench at Saintes-Maries-de-la-Mer-la-la-we-de-vo-de-la is fresh water?? correct me if im wrong, from what i know it was man made, maybe they filed it from the ocean... i can go faster in canberra, even though my 95 has less bouyancy there, but mainly cause its so gusty that when a good gust comes thru, the water is still flat from 5 mins of no wind!! hahah its fantastic!!!., so the salt does ad density and the viscousity probs doesnt go up much so, your probs better of yea, but it would make sweet FA difference!! u would need a smaller fin to make use of it.. its all viscosity vs density, so honey is slower than water.. would have to look up the ratios on google i cant b stuffed!!

the big one that everybody ignores is shallow water vs deep water... those skim boards dont go 2 meters in deep water, but in 5cms they go much much further, ground affect is sick


SeanAUS120
SeanAUS120
QLD
769 posts
QLD, 769 posts
1 Apr 2008 7:33pm
nebbian said...

Seriously, how can you tell? 5% is lower than the error you'd get in wind readings.


Testing with a GPS. The difference is even more pronounced if you analyse angles/speed on formula kit.

When I sail at Lake Cootharaba compared to the ocean, its slightly harder to get on the plane in the same windstrength. Surely that's not helping me go faster.
NotWal
NotWal
QLD
7436 posts
QLD, 7436 posts
1 Apr 2008 7:38pm
SeanAUS120 said...

barn said...

id say there is no diference, yes salt has more boyancy, but when a windsurfer is planing its skimming across the waters surface, so the fact that there are salt molecules in the water shouldent change its thinkness or whatever affects this phennonomen??


Even when planing, a board has to displace water. So buoyancy (from salt water) would definitely help keep the board floating more and not dragging in the water. I would imagine at 49 knots you are doing a lot more of the "skimming" than at 30 knots but you still need to GET to 49 knots so salt will help.

All the speed records are done on salt (ocean) water. Any sailing I have done on fresh water lakes is 5% slower than similar wind strengths on salt water.


Actually for planing its not so much a buoyancy thing as an inertial thing i.e the water resisting being pushed around. The denser salt water would, I expect, get you planing at slower speeds and higher out of the water with a smaller planing area. I don't know if there's any difference in the "stickiness" of the two.


I don't think having materials that produce air bubbles would help us (open to suggestion though?). We require lift from our fins to generate forward motion, created from the power generated in our sail and transfered from our arms-to-legs-to-fin, whereas a swimmer is trying to reduce drag as much as possible and gets the power from its arm/leg propulsion. So I reckon the bubbles would be counter productive and probably cause you to spin out quite a bit... $700 to Speedo and some duct tape and you can test that theory out for us however ;)

They're always tearing those things. hmmm...

I imagine surface friction provides an appreciable part of the drag and making wetted surfaces as slippery as possible would seem to be sensible. People have tried sacrificial surfaces in the past. I think they are frowned upon as pollutants. I kinda think a soap film might work but its vandalism. hmmm... clean fish.
I think bubbles could provide a friendlier way to lower the surface drag. An emulsion of air and water is going to be easier for a planing surface to rip apart than good old water.
Please Register, or first...
Topics Subscribe Reply