dont get cams, they are a complete pain in the a$$, they are fustraiting, and worthless while learning, you dont want all that low end power while learning either,

go for no cams, they are much better

Hey bh2905 - I'm a recent convert to windsurfing from sailing (started late last year)

I've been stuffing around with old cammed sails, my suggestion go camless.

Had 3 cammed sails, they have all broken cams, bent them, they always pop off, etc

Pain in the arse (esp if have wrong mast curves)


Go camless, the time spent fiddling with cams is better spent learning on the water

Plus, cam luff sleeves are a pain to waterstart
p.s. Bought my first camless last week, can't wait!

bh2905 said...

just after some general advise i am new to windsurfing and i am looking at some more sails, and was wanting some advise at to weather to stay away from cams while i am learning or wil they make it easier.

ps how does the pryde diablo fit in for a learner sail

thanks

the diablo in my opinion is suitable for learning as long as you can hold on to the power of the sail if wind gusts' aside from the sails that have fewer battens..and if you do better in a short period of time the diablo is a powerfull fast sail

hi spotty, how much do you weigh and windspeeds at sp

I'm with Sailhack on this one..

In the early learning stages, a small, light sail is great.. but once over that inital hump, having a stable sail that will handle gusts without the centre of effort shifting around is of great benefit.

A modern cammed sail, on a matching mast, with appropriate down and outhaul should rotate very easily. I have never had a broken batten yet. Most of them can be easily rigged by slightly over-downhauling, pulling heaps of outhaul, and then just leaning gently on the cam to pop it onto the mast. Then simply back the tensions off to sailing trim.

Having watched a friend get flogged half to death by a modern camless sail in a gust while I sat quite comfortably against my cammed sail (the same size) I am a strong believer in the stability of a cammed sail for low end grunt, and top end stability.

Mainly race sails will have the big luff-tube that fills up with water and is nearly impossible to get up again once it's full.. There are many cammed sails around that do not suffer from this problem.

As said earlier though - horses for courses. Cams and Cam-less are both good, just for different things. If you're sailing around more than you're falling in, it probably doesn't matter either way at this stage, and I'd be inclined to look to the future a bit - if you want to get into waves or freestyle, go camless, if you're just hooning around on flattish water(freeride) somewhere it can be gusty or light, then cams will be your friend.

As a learner, you're going to be harder on the gear than a more experienced sailor. Pryde seem to be a bit more fragile than some other brands (in my experience anyway). You'd be hard pressed to go past a wave oriented sail with x-ply to take the abuse that you're going to throw at it.

Untill a few years ago, I've had slalom boards and race sails, but got tired of it all in our choppy crap. So I got a freeride board and sail, Ezzy Infinity 6.6, much better.
The Ezzy has a narrow luff pocket and a couple of cams, great sail, never any dramas, highly recomended. Earlier this year I got Loft 5.9 O2, my first ever no cam sail. Wow what a great sail, so light in my hands and easy handling powered up in our crap, got a new max speed the first time I used it.

What I'm trying to say is, a camed freeride sail like a Infinity etc, will be OK no worries. But a no cam like the Loft O2 (cheap) or the Koyote etc will be sweet, go no cam.
I have no experience with the Diablo, sorry.

My 2c

robby naish once said - "life is like cams vs no cams. you start life pooin yer pants and doing stupid things, then you get to middle age and do nothing stupid or exciting, then you get old and start pooing yer pants and doing stupid things again. Just like cams, you start with no cams and everything seems exciting, start using cams and doing nothing exciting, then go back to no-cams again and start pooin yer pants while doing stupid things"

putting flame suit on - on behalf of robby naish

sorry vando was naughty of robby to say such things

vando said...

Haircut said...

sorry vando was naughty of robby to say such things

Yer He was prob young and foolish when he said it.

Knobby is GOD and therefore infallible. You're probly lyin Vando.

Spotty said...

JP747, I'm around 105 kg, and it was around 30-40 that day. The Koyote is very stable and I know you cannot do speeds like that easily unless your sail is stable and holds it shape. I think McDougal has taken detail from the Koncept and reworked it into a no cam sail, guess thats why it works so well. I tried the same with my 5,3 Kult wave/freeride sail with less batterns and that was harder due to it being less stable and twisting almost in half. That said it still did 41 knot peaks.

Then theres the effort on the 2002 Kaos wavesail..

Date : Sunday, September 24, 2006
Spot : Sandy Point, Victoria, Australia
Board : Starboard Acid 94
Sail : KA Sails Kaos Wave 4.7
Fin : Starboard Drake Wave 24
GPS type :
Average speed : 38.38 knots (39.4 39.1 38.1 37.8 37.5)
Max. GPS (display) : 41.5 knots
Max. 2 sec. (software) : 40.7 knots
100 m run : 40.2 knots
250 m run : 39.2 knots
500 m run : 38.5 knots
Nautical mile : 19.4 knots
1 hour : 10.1 knots
Distance : 34.3 km
Windspeed : 25 knots
Windgusts : 40 knots

well thanks spotty if you're fast, any sail will be fast

There is no one answer to cams vs no cams. It depends on your ability, what type of sailing you enjoy, the water state plus wind strength.

As mentioned above, beginners should steer clear of cams. However if the beginner aims to go blasting then they should look at buying a fairly stable sail once they are in the position to do so. If the water is generally fairly rough then its probably better to use a softer sail without cams. Again as the wind strength increases the need for cams reduces. By the point you are powered up on a 3.5, control is more important than power.


Edit: So perhaps the answer depends on what your starting position is and then there is a sliding scale towards the opposite of your start point.