carbon booms

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Rider5
Rider5
WA
567 posts
WA, 567 posts
2 Feb 2008 5:00pm
How long do they seem to last in the surf ? I've heard of people breaking them but only seen a couple of broken ones. Have you had one break how old was it? or do you know of others who have had then break and how old were they ?
Leech
Leech
WA
1933 posts
WA, 1933 posts
2 Feb 2008 9:02pm
I've had some nasty wipeouts with a 10-year-old carbon boom and it's still going strong.

I'm in the market for a new one because the outhaul cleat's broken off and the plastic head's got a split. I got an aluminium boom at the mo but as they say, once you go carbon there's no going back.
Mark _australia
Mark _australia
WA
23690 posts
WA, 23690 posts
2 Feb 2008 9:40pm
I get 3 yrs hard use out of a decent ally boom at $400. In fact, my last Chinook is still perfect after I broke my face on it, and it has been attached to 4 masts that broke in wave trashings.
I only buy new ones just to be safe (at the end of 3yrs there is nothing wrong with it).

That means I get at least 10yrs of use for the same $$$$$ as ONE carbon boom. Now I see heads on carbon booms break well before that and the cleats and grip will wear out in what, 5-6yrs????/ ...... who has heard of 10yrs heavy use out of a carbon wave boom?

They may be stronger but it is false economy
mr love
mr love
VIC
2424 posts
VIC, 2424 posts
3 Feb 2008 1:06am
I think one of the big factors is the sail range you can get out of 1 boom . My Ka 162-222 Boom is good for 4.2 Wave sail through to 7.5 Koncept . At near full extension it is still stiff as . An alloy boom just can,t cope with the same range , they get too spongy and will break at max extension . Therefore 2 booms required for the given sail sizes . The economics start to change if you are a sailor who demands a big range of length from a boom . Just my 2 bobs
mr bagus
mr bagus
WA
85 posts
WA, 85 posts
3 Feb 2008 10:06pm
Nice to hear that someone thinks an alloy boom is better economically. Most people who try carbon booms won't willingly go back to alloy, especially if they are a larger diameter than the carbon one. Life and enjoyment isn't just about money......

I have seen carbon booms last for years, with just replacement of clips (have thrashed my carbon boom for 2 and a half years in the surf, and just replaced clips only).

Yet I have personally witnessed someone break 3 brand new carbon wave booms in 3 weeks! same brand every time (the company was excellent in their warranty back-up) and the arms were just continually snapping. He finally bought a different brand of full carbon boom and hasn't had a hint of trouble for over 1 and 1/2 years........

So, be aware, booms aint booms.......
KAOS69
KAOS69
WA
1012 posts
WA, 1012 posts
4 Feb 2008 11:51am
i have used carbon for many years for racing , waves and freestyle and have never broken one ,carbon is better for racing but find that alloys are better for waves and freestyle ,the only problem with alloy is that it breaks alot ..... what do ya do ????
stribo
stribo
QLD
1628 posts
QLD, 1628 posts
4 Feb 2008 1:10pm
I wonder if a boom made from aircraft grade ally would be better than carbon?
It's lighter and way stronger than normal ally.
Is it too stiff and therefore would break easier?
Has anyone had any experiance with this?
evlPanda
evlPanda
NSW
9207 posts
NSW, 9207 posts
4 Feb 2008 2:39pm
stribo said...

I wonder if a boom made from aircraft grade ally would be better than carbon?
It's lighter and way stronger than normal ally.
Is it too stiff and therefore would break easier?
Has anyone had any experiance with this?


Good question. I'm in the market for a new boom and am reading this thread with interest. Do all the manufacturers state what type of alloys they use, and then which is best?

"Alloys ain't alloys"

Edit: Some googling produced some info for "6070 Marine Alloy" for example: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_alloy

Any chemists online? What does it all mean in layman's terms?
A strength/weight ratio would be nice as a standard.
Rider5
Rider5
WA
567 posts
WA, 567 posts
4 Feb 2008 2:00pm
Whoa there, c'mon back boys, that's it, lets get you back on track now, Ahhh Ok
So back to carbon room durability Ok so 3 people are happy with the durability of carbon booms but one of those people has seen 3 break Mr Bagus can you PM me the dodgy brand?
WindWarrior
WindWarrior
NSW
1019 posts
NSW, 1019 posts
4 Feb 2008 4:42pm
Like anything, carbon boom's can break... that said I have only broken one in the past five years.
The boom i broke had seen a heap of carnage and full heavy duty wash cycles in NSW, WA and Mauritius.
I landed on it, and across it... countless times wave riding and learning to push loop and back loop.
in the end I am fairly certain it only broke as a result of damage inflicted while on transit
- insert here -> dodgy baggage handlers/bag snatchers throwing my boom bag around and loading lots of heavy load bearing equipment on top of it

Couldn't tell you how many alloy booms I have snapped... more than 5 and less than 12, some of them less than 6 months old and from a range of manufacturers.
194cm and 90 kilo hanging off a boom certainly has it's disadvantages... disadvantages when it comes to alloy that is, no such problems with carbon booms !

Quite a few of the WindWarrior crew are on a range of carbon booms (and by crew I am referring to the guys we work and sail with NOT team riders or sponsored guys)
The only booms we have seen broken in the past 3 years are ALL alloy, although there were a few issues with clips wearing and back ends slipping on 2 unnamed carbon booms.

Check and replace your front end and outhaul ropes.
Check for signs of rust and/or excessive wear
Rinse off the boom every now and again and keep it out of the sun and not left in the back of a steaming hot car (to stop the grip from peeling) and you should get many years of service out of it.

The last carbon boom I had needed to be re-gripped after the grip wore through after years and years of faithful service.

Go carbon... you wont regret it

Kev

WindWarrior Australia
Paul Kelf
Paul Kelf
WA
678 posts
WA, 678 posts
4 Feb 2008 2:42pm
evlPanda said...

stribo said...

I wonder if a boom made from aircraft grade ally would be better than carbon?
It's lighter and way stronger than normal ally.
Is it too stiff and therefore would break easier?
Has anyone had any experiance with this?


Good question. I'm in the market for a new boom and am reading this thread with interest. Do all the manufacturers state what type of alloys they use, and then which is best?

"Alloys ain't alloys"

Edit: Some googling produced some info for "6070 Marine Alloy" for example: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_alloy

Any chemists online? What does it all mean in layman's terms?
A strength/weight ratio would be nice as a standard.


Rider5 sorry for continuing off topic but thought the questions should be answered.

The weight will not vary much whichever alloy you used, within the practical range.
Most brands will only tell you the Temper of the Alloy ie, T8 which really meeans Jack! We use T4 which is soft as and can be bent easilly, then heat treated to the equivalent of T6 or T8.
The Alloy is very important to know the Tensile Strength, the Yield Strength and how corrosion resistant it will be.
It is usually a compomise of all the above factors to get the best suitable alloy & temper. Sacrifice one more than the other & "Boom" as in Snap!
Not as simple as saying "Aircraft Grade".
I would guess that Aircraft Grade would probably be in the 7000 range like push bikes, this is what Technolimits used to use, not sure about now as I have seen some very bent ones of late, may be due to going reduced diameter.
All brands have had problems with reduced diameter booms and I will say it again, if your over 80kg you NEED a 32mm boom or get a GOOD quality carbon.

Paul
sailquik
sailquik
VIC
6171 posts
VIC, 6171 posts
4 Feb 2008 5:06pm
In the '80's I used to make my own booms out of 6000 series aluminum tubing. They were as good as most at the time and better than many. In comparison with todays booms they we very soft and bendy. Had to use 32mm diam. tube and limit extension length. Most of todays alloy booms are made with T8 tubes. I got some T8 tube (Highly tempered or heat treated to make it stiffer and I actually could not bend it to the boom shape so I gave up. It seems the best strongest and stiffest alloy booms are bent when the alloy is low temper, (T6?) and then heat treated to T8. Now, some alloy booms come in 29mm diam. and are still quite stiff in the shorter lengths, but of course 32mm in the same construction is stiffer and stronger for the same wall thickness.
For shorter booms, smaller sails I find good alloy booms perfectly adequate used in the shorter half of their extension range. For sails over about 6.6 there is no doubt carbon booms get an advantage with superior stiffness. I have been unfortunate enough to totally destroy two booms this season in speedsailing crashes with a 5m sail. I am glad I was using alloy booms for 2 reasons.
1. The boom broke and not me.
2. The cost of replacement was actually affordable.

Since it is very unlikely that I will have any 40 knots + crashes on the larger sails I would not hesitate to use good carbon booms for them.
stribo
stribo
QLD
1628 posts
QLD, 1628 posts
4 Feb 2008 4:23pm
Is aircraft ally the same as cromolly? Don,t know much about these materials except that i picked up some hellicopter seat frames once and damn they where light and apparently really strong.I'm sure the dude said they where cromolly.
nebbian
nebbian
WA
6277 posts
WA, 6277 posts
4 Feb 2008 3:44pm
stribo said...

Is aircraft ally the same as cromolly?


No.

Cromolly is an alloy of steel (chrome / molybdenum), whereas ally is aluminium.

We used cromolly in our formula SAE car, had to powdercoat it to stop it rusting so it wouldn't be any good for a boom...
stribo
stribo
QLD
1628 posts
QLD, 1628 posts
4 Feb 2008 4:57pm
ta
Rider5
Rider5
WA
567 posts
WA, 567 posts
5 Feb 2008 1:16pm
Hmm now where were we ?? Ah thats right the durability of carbon booms C'mon I know you guys can stay on track
stribo
stribo
QLD
1628 posts
QLD, 1628 posts
5 Feb 2008 2:42pm
Ok just be aware that some carbon booms have an ally sleeve at the front piece which eventually corrodes and breaks .
Troppo
Troppo
WA
887 posts
WA, 887 posts
5 Feb 2008 2:37pm
i had a chinook carbon boom which was made in 99 according to the serial num under the boom head when i pulled it apart to check for damage. i bought this boom second hand and it was maybe 4 yrs old then. it was reduced diameter. and has copped a beating. nearly 9 yrs later and it was still goin strong.

When i last saw it.....I think i may have left at beach or been nicked outa my ute so if anyone has it, it be great to get it back... its got white strapping tape all over it as the grip has gone to ****...
firiebob
firiebob
WA
3182 posts
WA, 3182 posts
5 Feb 2008 2:48pm
I don't wave sail (FNQ) but sail rough ocean most of the time.
For me, it has worked out cheaper with my carbon boom (Chinook), I was going through more alloy booms (HPL, Pryde, Chinook etc) than hot dinners before. Plus with the narrow grip & stifness, my carbon boom feels heaps better to use.

But then I wouldn't know a wave if I tripped over it

Troppo's the reason I went carbon, seen what he does, thanks mate
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