most harnesses would be imposible to get trped, but if somehow you did, you could just pull the hinge thing that hooks your strap on, but thats going by if you have a harness wich the bar is tied on with the strap,, but if you get a harness like the patlove masterseat the one i have, http://windshack.com/products.php?cat=accessories&scat=10&id=41 there is a quick release deign where you pule the hinge and your harness bar comes off, but only on one side, so it gives you an extra 30 cm to loosen your bar off so you can get it out easy. but if you do get into trouble the thing is to relax and take it slow, because if you panic and try to do it in a microsecond, you will get freeked out, and panic start needing to breath rapidly etcetc, and than its not nice, having the feeling of actually being trapped, but you you take it nice and slow and you will get out of it, and if you can hold your breath for more than 15 second, (and lets hope you can if your doing this sport) you will be able to get out of any harness off,

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Originally posted by oceangirl

If you somehow got your harness hook caught in something, like trapped really tight in something, can you easily remove your complete harness quickly to escape ?
I mean in seconds.
How about seat harnesses for instance ?
If you can't, are the harness designers being negligent with regards to your sailing safety ?

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I got caught under my sail hooked into my harness and nearly drowned so I was totally freaked out by the experience, and looked into harness's for a while.

The first thing I worked out was the worst thing I did on that day was panic!! Rule no. 1 relax!!!!! The next thing I did was set up a series of experiments, helped by Elmo whereby I got into the water with just my sail suunk low hooked in, twirled my self round under water, trapping the harness line around the hook as tight as I could get it, and if I stayed relaxed, could unhook myself easily every time, with time to spare such as rehook myslef and twirl again and unhook again......... I have never panicked again. Stay relaxed, practice as I did if you are worried about it.

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Originally posted by jord070

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Originally posted by hardie

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Originally posted by oceangirl

If you somehow got your harness hook caught in something, like trapped really tight in something, can you easily remove your complete harness quickly to escape ?
I mean in seconds.
How about seat harnesses for instance ?
If you can't, are the harness designers being negligent with regards to your sailing safety ?

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I got caught under my sail hooked into my harness and nearly drowned so I was totally freaked out by the experience, and looked into harness's for a while.

The first thing I worked out was the worst thing I did on that day was panic!! Rule no. 1 relax!!!!! The next thing I did was set up a series of experiments, helped by Elmo whereby I got into the water with just my sail suunk low hooked in, twirled my self round under water, trapping the harness line around the hook as tight as I could get it, and if I stayed relaxed, could unhook myself easily every time, with time to spare such as rehook myslef and twirl again and unhook again......... I have never panicked again. Stay relaxed, practice as I did if you are worried about it.

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yeah thats exactly what happend to me thats y i say relax so much, it was a horible feeling

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It's hard to relax when you are drowning. It's not my natural reaction to being stressed.
I was thinking of a harness, say a waist harness, that has full length zippers that run up and down both sides, left and right sides.
The zippers would have big chunky teeth and very large tabs on them.
You could grab the tabs in each hand and eject yourself by unzipping and splitting the harness in two.
What do you think ?

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Originally posted by oceangirl
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I was thinking of a harness, say a waist harness, that has full length zippers -------------
What do you think ?

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Sand has a habit of completely locking zippers!!!

Not sure it would grip enough. I'm using a DaKine wave seat, it's really a waist with seat velcroed on. I have to restick the velcro quite often.

The only time I felt trapped I somehow got the hook caught on the arm of the boom (not the lines) and jammed in tight. I got panicy and it felt terrible but luckily I stopped myself and thought about it and unhooked. But that first few microseconds when I couldnt get out from under the sail were terrible.

I think if you are worrying about that possible accident you better be wearing a helmet, try unhooking of you have been knocked out !
(Just joking).

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If you can't hold your breath for 30sec you have no business windsurfing.

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It also helps if you remember to take a breath just before you go under, if you have time. Sometimes it all happens pretty quick, and any air in your lungs can get expelled on impact with the water, then suddenly you're under the sail.
And how was that dude on telly the other day who set a new record for holding his breath under water - around 15 minutes or something ridiculous. I reckon he had gills.

If it would take 5 mins to escape and we were trapped under water all of us would drown.

It is hard not to panic under certain circumstances, when the water is really cold and your face and head get submerged, the fight or flight response takes over, similarly when you have a big crash. However the first thing you need to say to your self is "Relax"; Quickly gather your thoughts about your bearings and situation; then proceed to self-rescue. I recommend that you practice as I did, it shows you how much time you have and that if you relax it is easy to unhook in the most locked in of positions. It is the panic and jerky movements that further trap us.

Prolimit have a Kite waist harness that has a quick release system, give that a try you might get peace of my from that at least. However, I still recommend that you practice releasing, and train yourself not to panic, Panic is one of the main causes of loss of life in emergency situations.

Hardpole years ago had same thing happen got munched by an oncoming half mast wave in light winds, hook got jammed in the boom while I got dumped with board and rig very scary, unclipped the buckles and managed to get out found board on beach with harness hook still stuck to boom.

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Originally posted by oceangirl

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Originally posted by Mark _australia

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Originally posted by oceangirl

how about using velcro instead ?

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I have no idea where you are coming from. Even a (waist) harness with no "quick release" takes about 2 sec to get off. I reckon about 10sec for a seat harness u are not familiar with.
If you can't hold your breath for 30sec you have no business windsurfing.

Most have a speader bar buckle (dunno what they're called) where the strap runs thru and then back over itself. All they require is to be 'lifted' up with one finger, and then the harness can slide down ur legs and off.

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If you get flung over the boom like in a somersault, you don't get time to take a big breath of air.
It happens very fast and it's happened to me and my hook was trapped in a twisted harness line and I was very distressed.
All the air was knocked out of me when I crashed hard and I didn't know which way was up or down.
All I'm trying to do is come up with a safer better harness design with the help from you experienced guys and you tell me I have no business windsurfing because it's only 30 secs.
It could be 5 mins or more trying to escape. Can you hold your breath for 5 mins, Mark ?

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Sorry didn't mean to be rude I was trying to reassure you that (1) if a better quick release was necessary, somebody would have done it after all these years
(2) when not panicking anyone can get any harness off in ten sec. I can't see it ever taking 5 min and have never heard of anyone drowning like that.

Try it now: put your harness on and run around until panting. Then expel all air from your lungs, wait a sec, then undo the spreader bar buckle and slide harness down your legs. You'll be amazed how easy it is if you have prepared for it in your mind .... and just how long you can hold your breath for even if there is no air in your lungs

Try getting dragged over the falls with your hook stuck in the clew and then getting pinned to the sea floor by the next set. lol! It happenned to me and apart from a black eye and some skin off my nose i survived.
You just have to go with it . When your in a situation like that seconds seem like hours. The only drownings in windsurfing i,ve heard about are when people go out in conditions that are beyond their limits. We all take risks every day. The thing is know your limits, have an escape plan and as has been said "DON'T PANIC!!!".

Why not sail with scuba gear on. If it happens you will have about 40 minutes of air to plan and execute your escape

The best designed device will not help you unless you prepare for the inevitable. The best preparation is learn exactly how the harness unclips in an emergency and how to remain calm. I was trapped in harness lines not long after I started planing in the harness and being in shallowish water became lodged between sail and bottom. Struggle as I might I couldn't get out, calmed down and easily slipped out of the lines.

Having hard enough catapults since to wind myself, break harness lines and booms, it has never worried me since I learnt from that first time remain calm and you feel like you have all the time in the world. I have always ensured my harnesses have quick release though.

All these people getting hook stuck on booms, are you using hook upside down?

Well I bet a lot of you long term sailors have spent many hundreds and hundreds of dollars on various harnesses and harness lines over the years. So why are you willing to accept second best harnesses with 20th century technology and pay for them at todays prices ?

You guys deserve much better from the harness companies that you have supported all this time. I think sometimes experienced sailors can be a little indifferent to the risks after a while, your abundant time on the water has desensitized you to the dangers.
You forget how daunting it is for the beginners who are ignorant of all the traps.
Well the dangers are still lurking out there for the unwary, will it take a death to trigger improvement in harness safety technology ?
I hope not, there must be some other harness around (other than windsurfing) that designers can adapt to our sport and make it real safe.

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Originally posted by oceangirl

Well I bet a lot of you long term sailors have spent many hundreds and hundreds of dollars on various harnesses and harness lines over the years. So why are you willing to accept second best harnesses with 20th century technology and pay for them at todays prices ?

You guys deserve much better from the harness companies that you have supported all this time. I think sometimes experienced sailors can be a little indifferent to the risks after a while, your abundant time on the water has desensitized you to the dangers.
You forget how daunting it is for the beginners who are ignorant of all the traps.
Well the dangers are still lurking out there for the unwary, will it take a death to trigger improvement in harness safety technology ?
I hope not, there must be some other harness around (other than windsurfing) that designers can adapt to our sport and make it real safe.

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OceanGirl,

You have the usual "yips" which everyone gets at one time or another when the first start out.

If you are panicking enough that you can't get out of your harness lines after you've had a stack then a "Quick release Bar" is not going to help you either! as you will still be panicking and unable to think straight on how to undo it.

Here is the way to get over the "Yips"

If you have a swimming pool (easiest option) then rig your smallest sail, make sure you pad your mast base and boom end (so you don't damage your pool).

If not then a nice shallow flat location like Safety bay is good also, make sure you have a friend with you to help just in case.

Step 1
Lay the sail down in the pool so it floats on the surface.
get under the sail and practise pulling yourself out from under it with your eyes closed, feel for where the boom and mast is.

Step 2
Hook your self in under the sail, With your eyes closed, feel the harness hook, find the boom and mast, hang onto the mast find your harness hook with other hand and unhook the harness line, as you have hold of the mast in the other hand you know which way to go out from under the sail. Repeat the process till you are confident.

Step 3
Big breath.
Dive under hook in, close eyes and rotate under sail, which will twist line a bit (you only need to get your head down near the extension to twist enough).
Same again, With your eyes closed, feel the harness hook, find the boom and mast, hang onto the mast find your harness hook with other hand and unhook the harness line, as you have hold of the mast in the other hand you know which way to go out from under the sail. Repeat the process till you are confident.

Remember...

Don't Panic

You can hold your breath for close to a minute

Don't Panic