what can I say but 28 guys out at Mettams yesterday with another 7 rigging at about 5.30pm. When the launch area is only 3m wide and that many bommies around it was a recipe for a disaster. Where did they all come from? Have all the kiters sold their gear and decided to join the good guys again?

Credit to all that I didn't actually see any disasters but I wouldn't mind opening a discussion re: dropping in and who has right of way jumpers or riders, I know its jumpers but some others don't seem so sure

L

HOLY @#$% you got that right lauriew
i have never ever seen mettams that crowded
as i was coming in on the inside i found it very very hard to find a clear spot to gybe
fear of cutting in front of 10 people making their way out and because it was pretty windy everyone was up and plaining so therefore who has right of way
to save myself, my gear and making enemies () i just kept the peace and went all the way into the launching area coming to a total stop, jumped off, flipped rig and sailed back out giving way to anyone on a wave
in lighter winds i know that the person heading out under powered has right of way over person on the wave as he has more control would i be right in saying this
common sense, respect and a big smile
if only there were more local spots like mettams to spread out the crew

GONE WITH THE WIND

hey novak it sounds like you are an ex-sailor... coz thats what we use when I used to race boats... haha

Haydz

Hey Decrepit,
Sailors heading out through the waves have right of way over those on the wave NO MATTER WHAT.
That said, the honorable thing to do when you are grovelling out through the break zone and someone is on the wave is you give them as much room as possible... a little bit of give and take comes into play but always remember the guy on the way out has right of way.
The reasoning behind this is so the guy heading out doesnt get caught in the breakzone and end up losing/smashing his gear.
Even when the wind is on the guy on the way out STILL has the right of way. The theory is that ridding the wave you have more control and ability to go round the guy on the way out. Once again the key word here is consideration.
I have sailed Mettams heaps of times and spent some quality time getting to know the rocks and reef personally (broke 1 board and 3 fins there)
The main problem at a place like Mettams is the fact most people dont even look before they gybe. With such a small gybe zone you need to be considerate and look who is around you other wise it turns into chaos and then gets ugly.
All it takes is for a couple of sailors to let others know what the deal is. No anger, no stand over tactics, just a quite word while guys are rigging up or in the line up. If you see some one you dont know rigging up why not wander over and say g'day, worst case you might meet a new sailing buddy.

As for dropping in, the act shows a complete lack of respect for anyone else in the water. Just like surfing you call the 'drop in' off the wave. If this happens twice you have a quite word, 'Hey buddy what are you doing dropping in"
If it happens a third time you need to let the guy know that he has wronged you and it needs to stop. Try and maintain some control at this point as in my experience it works out for the best. If the guy is a Euro or continues to drop in, then in my experience its time to punch on. *An alternate is the group effect where a number of guys sailing tell the guy to pull his head in and stop dropping in (this also helps if the guy being dropped in on is a young or small sailor)

Snaking is the same. The guys that head up wind of you just as the wave is approaching and then shortboard tack and grab the wave closest to the breaking part are snakes. This is simply a 'sly drop in'
If someone continues to do this to you, simply ignore their calls for you to get off the wave after you have explained to them that the only thing snaking is going to get them is run out of town.

Well hopefully Kremlins speech has been taken on board. Jumpers ALWAYS have rights over riders, that being said its preferable that jumpers let the rider have the lip if they can make it cause a good ride beats a jump anyday. I just brought it up cause I ended up ditching into the nasty impact zone just downwind of mettams main break after some CLOWN bottom turned right in front of me and then fell off. I ended up getting out of it OK but couldn't water start until the GUMBY CLOWN had waterstarted and got out of my way.
Admittedly its tough to pick waves at Mettams, more often than not they just appear out of nowhere, however there is a fair bit of snaking goes on and there are a lot of guys who use speed to power over the back of your wave just before it breaks and about 20m upwind of you and then wander around the wave doing nothing but stuffing it up for you. I think Luke might be going a little over the top but I reckon at Mettams if you are riding properly then sure catch waves, if you are only bombing in and out then leave the break zone alone, perhaps gybe out the back and most of all don't drop into a wave and then sit there straightlining.

Grumpy lauriew

P.S. I still wanna know where all those guys came from

I agree with Decrepit.
Sailors heading out thru the waves have two valid options if they need to avoid waveriders.
1. bearaway hard downwind or...
2. chicken jibe and go back towards shore

If the outward bound sailor insists on demanding right-of-way regardless, the waverider will be forced to cutback or straighten-out which could screw up a great wave.
Cuttingback or turning to avoid outgoing guys may not even be possible if the wave is pitching hard and the waverider is really going for the pocket.

Ofcourse commonsense must always prevail along with a bit of consideration. Remember, it's a two-way street out there, the jumpers become the waveriders and vice-versa on the very next tack.

Kremlin is spot on It's always been the guy going out has right of way that's just the rules, but if we have a group of others that believe that they have right of way on the wave this indicates their arrogant personality or their lack of knowledge of the rules and it's gonna get ugly, maybe it can be sorted out on this forum. There's times when you can be heading out and as soon as you hit that foamy water with all air bubbles in it your board sinks you loose speed and you can't bear away or chicken gybe. The guy on the wave usually has the power or should be watching who's comming out and where they are.

PS I hope the local guy that wears a red gath and has red star board and drives a big older white toyota 4wd tray top reads the posts about snaking waves I also hope he enjoys the new crowds flocking to mettams for the great wave riding.

flatus :

A reflex that expels intestinal gas through the anus [syn: fart, farting, wind, breaking wind]

[L., fr. flare to blow.] 1. A breath; a puff of wind. --Clarke.

2. Wind or gas generated in the stomach or other cavities of the body. --Quincy.

This is from the ISAF rules book (RRS)

B1.2 The following definitions apply only to expression competition:

Coming In and Going Out A board sailing in the same direction as
the incoming surf is coming in. A board sailing in the direction opposite
to the incoming surf is going out.

Jumping A board is jumping when she takes off at the top of a wave
while going out.

Overtaking A board is overtaking from the moment she gains an
overlap from clear astern until the moment she is clear ahead of the
overtaken board.

Possession The first board sailing shoreward immediately in front of
a wave has possession of that wave. However, when it is impossible to
determine which board is first the windward board has possession.

Recovering A board is recovering from the time her sail or, when
water-starting, the competitor is out of the water until she has
steerage way.

Surfing A board is surfing when she is on or immediately in front of
a wave while coming in.

Transition A board changing tacks, or taking off while coming in, or
one that is not surfing, jumping, capsized or recovering, is in transition.


B4 RULES FOR EXPRESSION COMPETITION


B4.1 Right-of-Way Rules
These rules replace all rules of Part 2.

(a) COMING IN AND GOING OUT
A board coming in shall keep clear of a board going out. When two
boards are going out or coming in while on the same wave, or
when neither is going out or coming in, the board on port tack
shall keep clear of the one on starboard tack.

(b) BOARDS ON THE SAME WAVE, COMING IN
When two or more boards are on a wave coming in, a board that
does not have possession shall keep clear.

(c) CLEAR ASTERN, CLEAR AHEAD AND OVERTAKING
A board clear astern and not on a wave shall keep clear of a board
clear ahead. An overtaking board that is not on a wave shall keep
clear.

(d) TRANSITION
A board in transition shall keep clear of one that is not. When two
boards are in transition at the same time, the one on the other’s
port side or the one astern shall keep clear.

OK to add a new slant on this discussion, the reason Waveslave agrees with me is that we both wavesail Avalon, and for the last 20 years that's the way all the locals sail here. It's not a full on gnarly wave, it's fairly easy to out around the wave riding zone, and when it works it's a nice down the line wave over a fairly defined area. All the locals are out there to wave ride, so that has naturally taken precedence. It's only when we go elswhere we have to remember the rules are different. The other problem is when people unfamilar with the way we do things here, go purposely looking for jumps in the wave riding zone.
So what does every body think about local rules, it can be a recipe for disaster I guess, but all the same we like our way, it suits this break, and don't like outsiders telling us what to do. (haven't actualy asked any of the other locals, but I'm reasonably confident that's how they feel). Should we have a local rules sign posted to avoid confusion??? I know some of the locals are against this idea, but I think it's needed.

decrepit

Lauriew,
I think you might be getting a little confused with rules associated with a wavesailing comp or the stuff you found was outdated. Wave ridding takes precedence over jumps (score higher) so wave rides become more important while competeing which is why its called wavesailing.
As Davo87 pointed out the handout for the nationals highlighted the rider on the way out has right of way. I also think he's spot on with his views of giving the waverider as much room as possible when ever possible.
As for Waveslave and Decrepit bringing in their own rules at their local beach at Avalon... this is always going to cause confusion whenever new sailors turn up UNLESS you guys make a point of letting people know what the 'local rules' are.
I hope you guys dont think that by being a local you're entitled to more waves ? That being the case I might have to git ma posse together and head up to Avalon ta sort sum rednecks out and hit some big air in the 'wave ridding zone'.
As for quality waves, you guys should have been out at Butterbox off Longreef the last 2 days... now that was some real wave riding !

So it kinda sounds like we are all agreed that the guy going out has right of way. However, if he decides to be a complete tool and f*ck your ride up by aiming for the sections that you wanna ride well then you have rights to smash him. Likewise if the rider chooses to be a complete tool and prevents you from safely getting out through the break you are entitled to exact revenge on him once he hits the shore, beat him to a soggy pulp with your broken section of mast.

As for my confusion over the wave comp rules, I understand that those rules are for comps my concern is that people may plead that they were following comp rules cause they are "hardcore" sailors and that as a "recreational" rule follower your a softcock and shouldn't be out there.

I think its time to restart this thread under the title of wave rules and see if we can get the word out

L

I sail at metams when ever i sail the at the ocean( yes that meens i sail slalom on the river aswell!!) and I must say that after following all this chat over the last few days, its prety easy to see that there are a lot of fellow sailors out there that share the same opinon that i do. That is that there are some weird and angry people that sail there, regardless of right of way rules. For as long as I have been sailing I have always liked how everyone is so friendly to each other and aproachable. From safetybay to lancelin you can always get a smile and hello from everyone. Even at scarbough, where its prety nasty and advanced sailing, they are all friendly. Exept metams. There are always those few older sailors who are very arogant and obiously get quite pissed off that you are sailing at there beach. I have never experienced this anywhere else. The last coment made by metslocal says that prey loud and clear I think !! you dont have to live a street away from the beach, or pay rates in the suberb to sail there you TWAT. Its not reserved for you only, its there for every on to enjoy.
This kind of atitude ruins our sport. Its a pitty because even though mets is a small spot, its quite nice to sail there.

by the way: I give way to people on waves and go down wind when going out, and as I dont realy ride waves I jibe down wind and out the back so I dont get in any ones way!! Just beeing considerate of others.

usually when you are an old boring fart that never move from one place

Hey Lauriew/Kremlin,
Please don't misunderstand me, I've got no problems with jumpers and jumping, I love getting big air, hell fun. I reckon waveriding and jumping can easily co-exist without too much friction.

I think the type of sailing regime is largely determined by the venue itself. Two spots in W.A. immediately spring to mind, Margies and Gnaraloo. Both top waveriding spots(world class in fact) but both not that renowned for jumping.

Although at the risk of sounding contradictory, Gnaraloo (on a highish tide) is superb for jumping. However, few do it??
Here's a spot with a super flat water run-up, sure, there's a few foamies to hop over at first, but then a nice vertical ramp awaits for the huge lip-launch. Stick the landing and you're cooking with gas. Miss the landing and you're toast!(Maybe, depending on the next incoming/co-operative winds etc).

The thing is the sailor requires some self-discipline. In order to jump well, he needs to fade off halfway along the wave so as to position himself in the right spot in the break for attempting jumps. This means he can't be so greedy when riding waves, having to sacrifice the riding of the end section of the wave. Having done that, he can then truck up hard to wind, heading straight for the cliff.(all the time gaining ground).
Ok, now snap a clean jibe on the inside near the cliff wall and fang out at top speed. Now, this is the important part; and I guess where all this is leading.

The jumper needs to consider waveriders. They're all out there riding, each rider wanting 100m of clean wall to carve up. Don't screw it up for them when you snap into that double forward.

Good onya Mettslocal