sailing upwind???

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razzmatazz
razzmatazz
NSW
184 posts
NSW, 184 posts
2 Oct 2010 10:37am
I just had a holiday down Bermagui and sailed on a lake in about 30 to 35km winds. My board is a JP 144 free ride 2004? with a 36cm fin. I sailed a 6.4sqm sailworks retro 2000? on the day.
Now my problem was that when i got it planing the board wobbled at times and the whole lot always went downwind with me. I tried to correect by pulling the mast back and sheeting in but that would always take all the wind out of the sail and I would have to lean the mast forward to try and catch the wind again and it would start all over.
I definatley felt overpowered in those winds with this isze of sail. But why can't I stand as far back as to get into the straps without pointing the whole board into the wind and losing all drive. I watch these videos and the mast leans back heaps and the guys scream upwind.
Please what am I doing wrong????
And while I'm on the subject. The inevitable happend and I crashed the mast into the nose of the board and now have a small crack there. Any suggestions on how to repair this?
Windxtasy
Windxtasy
WA
4019 posts
WA, 4019 posts
2 Oct 2010 10:33am
razzmatazz said...

I just had a holiday down Bermagui and sailed on a lake in about 30 to 35km winds. My board is a JP 144 free ride 2004? with a 36cm fin. I sailed a 6.4sqm sailworks retro 2000? on the day.
So that's about 20 knots. What weight are you?
Now my problem was that when i got it planing the board wobbled at times and the whole lot always went downwind with me. I tried to correect by pulling the mast back and sheeting in but that would always take all the wind out of the sail and I would have to lean the mast forward to try and catch the wind again and it would start all over.
It is good to go downwind a bit when you start planing, to pick up some speed, especially in marginal planing conditions. Steer downwind, sheet in, hook in, then footstraps is what I do. Are you using a harness?
When planing you steer the board more with footsteering than with the sail. If not planing and you do want to sail close to the wind you have to do as you are doing but be very subtle about it. Pull back gently and sheet in gently so you can feel when you start to lose power, then you can back off a little.

I definatley felt overpowered in those winds with this isze of sail. But why can't I stand as far back as to get into the straps without pointing the whole board into the wind and losing all drive. I watch these videos and the mast leans back heaps and the guys scream upwind.
You can only stand back as far as the straps when you are properly planing. That's because the front half of the board is no longer in the water and you are getting enough lift from the fin to stop the back of the board sinking. The mast leans a long way back because the center of effort of the sail needs to move back to balance the lateral resistance of the board and fin which is now well back.
I think you are nearly there. Take advantage of that turn downwind to pick up speed, sheet in, hook in, get into the footstraps then use your footsteering to sail broad or upwind.

Please what am I doing wrong????
And while I'm on the subject. The inevitable happend and I crashed the mast into the nose of the board and now have a small crack there. Any suggestions on how to repair this?


Windxtasy
Windxtasy
WA
4019 posts
WA, 4019 posts
2 Oct 2010 10:37am
read GusTee's thread www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/General/Board-woes-OR-wrong-technique/

You are at a similar stage I think.

Re board repair, there are plenty of guys here who can tell you how. I'm not one of those, but do repair it or else water will leak in and make your board heavy.
evlPanda
evlPanda
NSW
9207 posts
NSW, 9207 posts
2 Oct 2010 3:16pm
I don't usually rake the sail back when going upwind. Instead I tend to, in straps and harness, rotate/lean around toward the front of the board. My back leg is straight. It feels like my rig is actually slightly forward. It works.

Depends on gear and conditions of course. With a freerace sail and a big fin I tend to push off the fin more. If I build enough speed the sail will rake back appropriately.

As usual Guy Cribb explains very well: www.guycribb.com/windsurfing_technique_holiday_DVD_0076v01.htm
Upwind articles are at the bottom of the page. Note the first couple of photos where sail is not raked back.

I find it's really a body stance thing, actually the whole sport is. Don't tilt the sail a particular way because that is what you've read, you more feel the technique required and ...the rest just follows. Dare I say it "use the force razzzmatazz. You must feel the force flowing through you."

But why can't I stand as far back as to get into the straps without pointing the whole board into the wind and losing all drive.


Unless really overpowered you'll get onto plane and into straps pointing slightly downwind. Then you point upwind.
jh2703
jh2703
NSW
1225 posts
NSW, 1225 posts
2 Oct 2010 5:43pm
Sounds like your fin is a little on the small size, is it the original fin or an after market one?
I use to sail a 145L board and it ran a 50cm fin and was good up untill about 20knots and then I used a 42cm....a bigger fin will help with going upwind and with stability. You need to be fully powered and in the straps to make good gain upwind so if your only just plainnig you'll just sail across the wind or slightly down wind. Best thing to do is just sink the rail and slog upwind but really look way up wind, look way past where you want to get to...trust me it works, where your head goes everything else follows.

Cheers Jason.
swoosh
swoosh
QLD
1929 posts
QLD, 1929 posts
2 Oct 2010 5:47pm
sailing upwind is overrated.

all the pro's just sail downwind then walk back upwind along the beach
razzmatazz
razzmatazz
NSW
184 posts
NSW, 184 posts
2 Oct 2010 6:52pm
'as usual Guy Cribb explains very well: www.guycribb.com/windsurfing_technique_holiday_DVD_0076v01.htm
Upwind articles are at the bottom of the page. Note the first couple of photos where sail is not raked back.'


This was a bit of an eye opener. I definiteley thought that gap neede to be closed but alas all for nothing and i can relax now.




Sounds like your fin is a little on the small size, is it the original fin or an after market one?

aheemmm homemade cut off due to it beeing a bit long for the inlet I was starting to sail before i discovered the lake.Now I will have to get a new one prob. 42or 44 long



all the pro's just sail downwind then walk back upwind along the beach

I did that for all of the 5 days i was on the water and the worst day was when it was really blowing. by that time my feet where cut up and i had a nice hole in thead from having catapulted without a helmet. Next time I'll take the mtb helmet. I was a bit scared at the speeds I was getting to but in the end it was worth it.
And after all these experiences and crawling through the mud to get upwind again I decided to persvere with upwind sailing
evlPanda
evlPanda
NSW
9207 posts
NSW, 9207 posts
2 Oct 2010 9:38pm
razzmatazz said...
by that time my feet where cut up


(Wetsuit) Boots. You'll never go back. Approx $60. I got sick of cutting the feet up, and frankly some of that stuff has been in god knows what for how long, and is now sticking into your bloodstream.

Related: Today I learnt we all have about 3kg+ of bacteria in/on us at any time.

racerX
racerX
463 posts
463 posts
4 Oct 2010 8:45pm
The guy cribb article is really helpfull, except that he does not explain the context, which is for someone riding a smaller board, in the puictures he is probably on a 100l freestyle wave board where you use the shape of the board more and riding the fin less if not at all. On the big wide board like the 144 you mentioned you will still be tilting the board over, but not as much, and will using the fin more, so the sail will need to come a little further back, but you will still need to come forward with your weight and sheet in. I don't think of it is as a differerent technique, just a differerent emphasis.
sboardcrazy
sboardcrazy
NSW
8349 posts
NSW, 8349 posts
5 Oct 2010 2:46am
swoosh said...

sailing upwind is overrated.

all the pro's just sail downwind then walk back upwind along the beach


Great idea if you sail somewhere that you can do that..
Te Hau
Te Hau
498 posts
498 posts
5 Oct 2010 4:05am
Someone else said.....

I think you are nearly there. Take advantage of that turn downwind to pick up speed, sheet in, hook in, get into the footstraps then use your footsteering to sail broad or upwind.

To add to that
.......and as you head upwind, don't sheet in too far.
Oversheeting while going upwind is the most common reason for not getting upwind.
Reason being, as the board points closer to the wind the sail must stay in the same position relative to the wind , not to the board.......don't oversheet.
When racing upwind you actually spend a lot of time gently sheeting out as you climb to higher and higher angles.
Also, remember 'heels closer together', tends to get the stance right (upper body forward-back leg straight).Try to look around the mast.
And the practising is the best part.
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