starboard and port

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fish
fish
WA
155 posts
WA, 155 posts
4 Oct 2005 10:58pm
i was wondering when you got two windsurfers sailing towards each other who has right of way
on what side do they pass
what foot forward is starboard tack
does the person on starboard tack get to go windward and have right of way
im confusing myself. please explain in simple terms
Bertie
Bertie
NSW
1351 posts
NSW, 1351 posts
5 Oct 2005 3:00am
the person with their right foot forward ( on starboard) has right of way. however both are obliged to prevent a collision at all costs.
the person on port (left foot forward) should sail behind the person on starboard tack.

any more questions about the rules of the sea keep asking. the more people that know them the better.

Bertie
ju_724
ju_724
231 posts
231 posts
5 Oct 2005 7:03am
what about wave sailing rules? i was told that if you are on a wave then you have to give way to approaching oncoming traffic, regardless of which tack you are on - is this still the case
JayBee
JayBee
NSW
714 posts
NSW, 714 posts
5 Oct 2005 10:32am
Be careful using reminders like "right foot forward" to define whether you are on Starboard tack. It does not cover every circumstance (sailing by the lee etc). I have taken the definitians below from the ISAF racing rules.
There is no rule regarding passing on one side or the other, that is a shipping rule not for small craft. The windward/leeward rule comes into play on the same tack though.


From the Racing Rules for Sailing, (www.isaf.com)
Tack, Starboard or Port
A boat is on the tack, starboard or port, corresponding to her windward side.

Leeward and Windward
A boat’s leeward side is the side that is or, when she is head to wind, was away from the wind. However, when sailing by the lee
or directly downwind, her leeward side is the side on which her mainsail lies.
The other side is her windward side. When two boats on the same tack overlap, the one on the leeward side of the other is the leeward boat. The other is the
windward boat.


And from the appendix to he racing rules:

B4 RULES FOR EXPRESSION COMPETITION
B4.1 Right-of-Way Rules
These rules replace all rules of Part 2.
(a) COMING IN AND GOING OUT
A board coming in shall keep clear of a board going out. When two boards are going out or coming in while on the same wave, or when neither is going out or coming in, the board on port tack shall keep clear of the one on starboard tack.
(b) BOARDS ON THE SAME WAVE, COMING IN
When two or more boards are on a wave coming in, a board that does not have possession shall keep clear.
(c) CLEAR ASTERN, CLEAR AHEAD AND OVERTAKING
A board clear astern and not on a wave shall keep clear of a board clear ahead. An overtaking board that is not on a wave shall keep clear.
(d) TRANSITION
A board in transition shall keep clear of one that is not. When two boards are in transition at the same time, the one on the other’s port side or the one astern shall keep clear.
den
den
WA
27 posts
den den
WA, 27 posts
5 Oct 2005 10:29am
Windsurfing has really complicated the Rules of Sailing because of the speeds we can achieve and our maneuverability. Bertie has it 100% right. "...however both are obliged to prevent a collision at all costs."

A fin hitting a body at speed is going to be very messy. I adopt the same mentality I use when riding a motor bike, It is pointless being in the right if you are dead!

Most of us don't Race, so although the Rules of Racing are a good guide they are not necessarily the rules of recreational sailing.

In this increasingly litigious world it would be unwise for anyone to go making grand statements in a public forum about what is and isn't legal. I really recommend you all Google for some knowledge on the subject as, at a guess, most of you sail un-insured. On that subject, Get some insurance.

Personally, I find the Right Hand Forward has Right of Way concept keeps me out of trouble 99% of the time. In the other 1% I use Berties advice.

I would like to see some sort of hand-out issued at Windsurfing and Kiting stores pointing out the basics.

Here are a couple of starting points.

http://www.scils.rutgers.edu/~elfox/rules.html
www.sailingusa.info/sailing_safety.htm#Right-of-Way

A few years back one of the WA windsurfing stores had a good web page on the subject but I can't find it.


fish
fish
WA
155 posts
WA, 155 posts
5 Oct 2005 10:37am
thanks for the confirmation
im with bertie and den as well
i kinda new that but had a major brain fart and forgot
i was out a few days ago and was heading out from the beach (flat water) on starboard tack right foot forward
i was not quite plaining but was moving along just under the plain
and a person coming in was on port tack and was not quite plaining either i was trying to head upwind and to pass him on the windward side (closest to the wind) and he for some reason was trying to do the same???
i stuck to my guns thinking i was in the right and he would realise this and bear away but he just kept coming straight for me??? we missed by millimetres! he fell off as we passed and swore at me and i just kept going and felt very very confused and the good vibe had left the water
every time he passed me he gave me a dirty look
and in the carpark he just kept staring at me?
i felt very uneasy
not sure if i was wrong
but being a very quiet and shy person i didnt approach him for fear of getting into an argument or worse a punch up!?
anyway thats off my chest now
hope we are all having fun on the water and looking out for each other
as for wave riding ju724 i know the basics but wave riding rules are different at different spots depending on locals?
rider on wave has right away
rider heading out underpowered has right of way
riding heading out powered keeps clear of wave rider
jumper has right of way
blah blah blah blah
there are numerous threads regarding this issue i have noticed
best is to talk to local windsurfer and find out?
for a quiet and shy person i have really blabbed on
den
den
WA
27 posts
den den
WA, 27 posts
5 Oct 2005 11:12am
I've been in the same position in the past. I hit the water any time I can because it gives me such a great buzz. When this sort of **** happens it ruins your whole day.
kitecrazzzy
kitecrazzzy
WA
2184 posts
WA, 2184 posts
5 Oct 2005 11:44am
regarding fish's story, i recommend that if you encounter this scenario to shout "starboard" to show that u wish to use your right of way.
den
den
WA
27 posts
den den
WA, 27 posts
5 Oct 2005 12:01pm
Kitecrazzy, you are correct. In addition the windsurfing appendix to the Rules of Racing also says something about indicating with your hand (no, not your middle finger).

The only problem I see is that in my experience, all that is going to happen is I get a blank look back and some guy thinking I'm abusing him.

The one good thing about shift work is mid-week sailing, no traffic!
kitecrazzzy
kitecrazzzy
WA
2184 posts
WA, 2184 posts
5 Oct 2005 3:09pm
a quick rule to remember is stay away from a someone that is on the same tack as you and down wind, remember don't be a dick head and go match racing.
(match racing is were you use the rules to slow your opposition down)
fish
fish
WA
155 posts
WA, 155 posts
5 Oct 2005 11:11pm
thats a good one kitecrazzzy to shout starboard
i never really thought of that
when surfing and i am taking off deep and see that someone is trying to drop in i shout 'YEP' and they back off
and shouting starboard may get blank looks from the on comming offender hey den? maybe the front hand off the boom put it out to your side horizontaly as if turning on a bike would be a good sign?
but this usally doesnt happen as i wave sail and very rare go blasting flat water but when i do i dont want this to happen again
Combs
Combs
WA
152 posts
WA, 152 posts
6 Oct 2005 9:24pm
Den

The windsurfing store site with the simple rules was www.windsurfingperth.com.au but I just took a quick look and couldn't find it. Domestic blindness probably. It was an extremely simple and good set of basic instructions using normal language.
Combs
Combs
WA
152 posts
WA, 152 posts
6 Oct 2005 9:35pm
Hey Fish, I have also had the same experience, where you are both heading for each other and both trying to give way in the same direction. Very disconcerting, expecially when neither of you are under power. I found the simplest thing to do was to change direction very positively to give the other guy a very clear indication of where you are going. Not always possible if you are surrounded.

I could try yelling Starboard, but that is the board I ride, so he might just think I am telling him to trade his in and end up with the same dirty look.
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