super light masts

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orrock27
orrock27
WA
21 posts
WA, 21 posts
20 Jan 2008 1:18pm
i helped a british lad separate a two piece mast that was full of sand, to my surprise it was really really light but took the conventional size universal and was the standard diameter are these now common in australia and if so how much cash are we talking about.

you see as i get older i find it is easier to put my board on a diet rather than for myself to loose weight


regards ken
P.C_simpson
P.C_simpson
WA
1492 posts
WA, 1492 posts
20 Jan 2008 1:22pm
100% carbons around $700 to $1,000. for a 460 mast..
orrock27
orrock27
WA
21 posts
WA, 21 posts
20 Jan 2008 1:59pm
P.C_simpson said...

100% carbons around $700 to $1,000. for a 460 mast..


so a 430 might be a bit cheaper
and as far as the second hand variety goes do people just sail with them until they break or is there a bit of a 2nd hand market?

cheers man

ken
choco
choco
SA
4186 posts
SA, 4186 posts
20 Jan 2008 3:41pm
Better off buying new they come with depending on the brand 6,12or24 month warranty.
yoyo
yoyo
WA
1646 posts
WA, 1646 posts
20 Jan 2008 2:58pm
are these now common in australia

Yes. Some years ago North intoduced a super hi spec mast "the platinum series" where they used about 10 tons of pressure to sweeze most of the resin out resulting in very light masts. They were also very expensive.

Most masts are made in Italy (by Triana etc) to different windsurfing company specs depending on when they see themselves in the market and these masts have different bend curves to match their repective sails but the manufacturer is the same.

I believe the pressure is now up to 20 tons and several brands market these super light masts. The standard diametre masts (SDM) are lighter because they need less material for the same stiffness than a RDM. But having thinner walls they are more fragile than the thicker walled reduced diametre masts. Resistance to knocks is the issue not strength.

Reptile Mamba 100...430 SDM 100%Carbon @ 1.38 Kg ?
Severne Red Line.... 430 SDM 100%Carbon @ 1.35 Kg $1029
North Platinum........ 430 SDM 100%Carbon @ 1.70 Kg ?
Tushingham Pro.......430 SDM 100%Carbon @ 1.50 Kg ?
Gun Select............. 430 ndm 100%Carbon @ 1.48 Kg $697 24 month warranty

The Gun is an internet sail price (no shop front..reduced overheads)

The Severne and Tushy appear to be similar masts but the tushy has extra reinforcing on the bottom section (hence the extra weight) "the base has been strengthened ... with additional woven reinforcements" to fit their market position whilst the Severne as their top spec race mast obviously feel minimum weight is the top priorty.

Because of the high price and uncertain history of 2nd hand masts it is often difficult to sell the top end masts for anything like what they cost new. Occassionally europeans who don't want to lug all their kit back to europe (where they may have new free/sponsored stuff waiting) will often offload top notch stuff at bargain prices.
Gestalt
Gestalt
QLD
14968 posts
QLD, 14968 posts
20 Jan 2008 4:21pm
i'd say unless you race or want to push the limits on the speed course it's just not worth the weight savings you get with a 100% mast.

75-80% carbon masts only weigh about 250g more, cost between 50-75% the price as 100% and "typically" last longer.

personally i can't feel the difference between a 100% and 75% when sailing.

shure, 30-50% masts weigh lots more and don't perform as well on slalom/race/speed gear.

but i think 75-80% are great.

CJW
CJW
NSW
1731 posts
CJW CJW
NSW, 1731 posts
20 Jan 2008 5:37pm
As Gestalt eludes to you have to consider what you really want the mast for. If you're after the absolute ultimate, no compromise mast then pony up for one of the superlight masts. However imo they are not really necessary and are simply not worth the price premium they attract, particularly once you factor in the durability. Unless you're racing in the PWA I don't think most of us can justify it.

Also you'd want to consider if the mast if for slalom or waves/freestyle/blasting. If its the latter you can't go past RDM, i'd go so far as to say a lot of race sails that rig on a 430 masts are also these days geared towards RDMs.
Sailhack
Sailhack
VIC
5000 posts
VIC, 5000 posts
20 Jan 2008 7:47pm
choco said...

Better off buying new they come with depending on the brand 6,12or24 month warranty.


Agreed, if you can afford it, but I reckon I did well through buy/n/sell!

2nd hand X9 460 mast, and pre-loved (well used) RS1 6.5m sail, both for $400.00. Had them both out a couple of days ago, I reckon I got my money's worth in one session.....might need to last a little longer to keep the 'minister for war and finance' happy though!

Mobydisc
Mobydisc
NSW
9029 posts
NSW, 9029 posts
20 Jan 2008 9:15pm
Sailhack said...

choco said...

Better off buying new they come with depending on the brand 6,12or24 month warranty.


Agreed, if you can afford it, but I reckon I did well through buy/n/sell!

2nd hand X9 460 mast, and pre-loved (well used) RS1 6.5m sail, both for $400.00. Had them both out a couple of days ago, I reckon I got my money's worth in one session.....might need to last a little longer to keep the 'minister for war and finance' happy though!




Agreed. I purchased a Neil Pryde 100% 460 mast with an RX2 6.5 sail and a carbon boom for $549 on a well known Internet auction site. They work beautifully together and so far so good.


NotWal
NotWal
QLD
7436 posts
QLD, 7436 posts
20 Jan 2008 8:17pm
Light masts are really nice. I busted mine and I miss it. The trouble with sdms is they are NOT as strong as rdms.

Its like this - For a particular mast length the stiffness can be the same for both rdm and sdm (eg 430 IMCS 21) and usually is. The rdm must have thicker walls to achieve the same stiffness. There are 2 consequences that follow from this that affect strength. 1) The local rupture strength of the thicker wall is greater than for the thinner wall. 2) The local rupture stress is achieved at a considerably greater bend for the smaller diameter mast, and because both masts have the same stiffness the greater bend is achieved at a proportionally greater bending load.

So not only does the rdm bend considerably further before reaching the same skin stress but it has to bend even further before it reaches the higher rupture stress.

That's it in principle and any first year structural engineering student should be able to do the calcs for you. (Don't ask me)

Don't be tempted (as one particular dork that I know) to take your 100%c sdm race mast into the waves because you'll break it very easily. However out of the waves they are a delight. This again is for 2 reasons - 1) Lighter weight is nicer to throw around for gybing and tricks. 2) The lighter tip will recover faster than a heavy tip (i.e higher reflex.) and your rig will feel inordinately steady even though its working like mad.

Be aware of bend curve too. Curve varies quite a bit from brand to brand and can make a huge difference to the way your sail works. IMCS only indicates overall stiffness i.e. the total deflection under a particular load. The same overall stiffness can be achieved with a stiff bottom and a very flexy top (say NP) or a relatively soft bottom and a fairly stiff top (say Gaastra).
P.C_simpson
P.C_simpson
WA
1492 posts
WA, 1492 posts
20 Jan 2008 9:05pm
hey make this the main concern if your going to buy one, don't go hey GUN sails make the cheapest so i will buy that one. Buy the mast made for your sails, pretty much all sails are designed around one certain style of mast, the sail companys will get a mast they like and start from there e.g Neil Pryde sails where designed to go on there masts, you can get different brand masts with all the same spec. could even be made in the same factory but there not all the same, all have different flex points etc, etc. it's not the sail makers trying to get you to use only there gear, they just get the masts they want for there sails made for them only. it would be a bad move for the factory to make cheaper versions of Pryde Masts, because they would not fit a large range of sails, so they compromise, making them almost fit a range of brands, some come dam close and can be fine.

the best thing is to either buy that mast they built the sail on or if you can try a variety of mast rigged with that sail and pick the best one.

most shops will let you rig the sail on the mast for a test, it gives them great feed back to what masts work well on what sails..
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