volume to support weight

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belijae
belijae
QLD
7 posts
QLD, 7 posts
5 Nov 2006 10:54am
Howzit goin?

I'm just entering the intermediate skill bracket and want to get a new rig (currently on a 1990 BIC Calypso with a one piece mast and a sail with no battens, and virtually no shape). I'm a fairly small chic, but I would like a rig that I can cart around by myself when it's all together, and if possible, a board that wont submerge when I stand on it (asking too much?). I'm generally between 55 - 60 kg. I'm a flat water sailor, and would like to get into freestyle when I pick up my act.

Is there a formula to work out how much weight a board will support (or to indicate what volume I should look for otherwise)?
bubs
bubs
SA
924 posts
SA, 924 posts
5 Nov 2006 11:34am
belijae

i recently (bout a year ago) moved up from a old board like urs and i got a 99L Naish Quest Wave board as i want to get into the waves asap. im about 65kg and the board sinks a little when i stand on it but i can still get enough ballance to up haul it in a bit of chop if need be. its very light and i can hold it easily 1 handed.

I did sail my brothers board a bit before getting this board though which would have helped a lot. His is also a old board but very fast and about 110 to 115L. his you can pick up easily but not with 1 hand like mine. have u sailed many small boards before and what size board you coming off?

if your coming straight off a large board i would recomend something around the 115 to 120L mark as they still have a lot of float and are still very nice to sail without being to big.

as for my rig i recomend anything newer than 2000. the sail i used most, which is a 2000 neilpryde core wave sail is probably one of my best sails and i can use that, and still be in control from about 12 to 17 or 18 knots on my new Naish board.

If your sail has no battons i would think its a triangle sail? these are much harder to sail and its feels so much nicer when you get onto a newer sail. how much wind are you going out in at the moment and what size sail are you running?

also how much are you looking to spend. when i ought my board i got sail mast boom and everything real chep as a guy just wanted to get rid of it. there would be a biggere market where you are than down here in SA so i would think so you would be able to ind something at a good price relatively easily. but i dont know.

anyway hope this helps
bubs
belijae
belijae
QLD
7 posts
QLD, 7 posts
5 Nov 2006 11:12am
Sounds like a great place to start looking, thanks bubs!

- I guess the wind is usually 10 - 15 knots, any more and I tire out pretty quick, though last season I was getting better in the heavier wind. I don't really know what my sail size is, but I'd guess it to be about 4.0.
bubs
bubs
SA
924 posts
SA, 924 posts
5 Nov 2006 11:45am
yer with those old sails you loose a lot of power so a 5.0 ina old sail would have less power than a 4 to 4.5 in new sail i think.

ive written a bit more up the top refering to boards to so give it anotha read. might help a bit more i dont know.

bubs
belijae
belijae
QLD
7 posts
QLD, 7 posts
5 Nov 2006 11:27am
yeah, my current board is 175L and weighs about 15kg - not too heavy, but ungainly at more than 3m long. Do you reckon it would be better to upgrade bit by bit - get a new sail or two, two piece mast and then go a new board? I was thinking of going to a demo day to get a better idea, but I always seem to see the notices about a week after they've been and gone.
bubs
bubs
SA
924 posts
SA, 924 posts
5 Nov 2006 12:10pm
i dont realy know what ur level is but i went from a old triangle sail like urs ona huge board even bigga than urs (3.6m long and 170L i thin) to a bombora board (2.2M long bout 220L) and then put the sail i use now my core on that. then went to my bros board wid da same sail and then finally bought my board which came wid a bigga sail that i use ina bout 10 knots of wind.

so yer i upgraded very slowly and got all my gear cheap which was much betta. and i sold my old board coz the first board i used was my dads old 1. and with those funds bought my new board. i did that over a number of years though and slowly started goin out in more and more wind. so yer i started very early and that makes it very easy for me now ona small board because im only 13 and very light compared to most guys. i found starting very young helped heaps and yer the earlier you rly get in2 it the betta.

it realy depends how u want to do it and how much money you want to spend. going to the demo days would be a great idea to get an idea of what u want and everythin. but once you get onto new gear you wont want to go back onto older gear thats what happend with me. i had my old board sitting on the beach a didnt sail until my brother came back fora rest with his board. bit sad i know but it just duznt feel the same.

anyway the demo days are a great idea so try go 2 as many of them as u can and get a good idea of whats around.

hope this has all helped
bubs
June.
June.
WA
51 posts
WA, 51 posts
5 Nov 2006 9:46am
Hi, I weigh the same as you. My first board after learning on the big beginners boards was 109 litre. That was more than enough buoyancy for my weight. Make sure you get a board that is reasonably wide as that makes it a lot more stable. The very old boards are longer and thinner. I now have a 74 litre board and that still floats me easily, but is less stable so I wouldn't recommend you go that small too quickly. You probably wouldn't want to go to anything smaller than 95 litres yet. The smaller the board the harder the transition will be to learn to ride it but the longer you will keep it.

Try to get as modern a sail as you can afford. The more modern sails have a much lighter feel and a bigger wind range. I think is is better to get a well used modern sail than a pristine condition old sail. 5m is my intermediate sail size, so that would be a good size to go for if you are just going to buy one sail for now. Try to buy as light gear as you can get, it makes a big difference to someone our size. I also like the Neil Pryde sails as they are very light and have a good shape. Get someone to show you how to rig a modern sail properly. Good Luck.
belijae
belijae
QLD
7 posts
QLD, 7 posts
5 Nov 2006 11:48am
Thanks Ruth, about 110L sounds good! you've been a great help bubs, I think I'll do what you did and upgrade with second hand stuff till I get where I'm headed. I've got some good ideas of what to look for. I think I'll go a better sail first
nebbian
nebbian
WA
6277 posts
WA, 6277 posts
5 Nov 2006 10:01am
Hi Belijae!

The general formula for the volume that will support you is:
Volume in litres = (Your weight) + 20.

This might sound a bit small, but once you get the hang of a smaller board you really don't want to go back. So I'd go for an 80-90 litre board, definitely something lower than 100 litres anyway. If you have something more than 30 litres more than your weight then the board becomes almost uncontrollable in higher winds (25 knots plus). It bounces around like a bronco, rides up on the fin and is very poorly behaved. If you get something that's your weight + 20 then that's a good compromise between being able to uphaul in light winds, and still being well behaved in higher winds.

I guess it depends on how many boards you want to own later on. If you get a bigger board, you'll eventually need a lower volume board when you get better at it and want to go out in higher winds. If you get a bigger board now then the transition is easier, but you're limited when the wind really blows.

For rigs, definitely get a secondhand two piece carbon mast, with a couple of sails. If you keep an eye out on ebay and this site you can often get a package deal from someone who's started kiting and doesn't want their 'old' kit anymore, expect to pay around $700 for a board + mast + boom + a couple of 2002-ish sails. This is the cheapest option, and if you get a board that's the right volume then that will keep you going for a season until you start to buy brand new sails.
belijae
belijae
QLD
7 posts
QLD, 7 posts
5 Nov 2006 12:10pm
Thanx nebbian, I will keep an eye out on the net for that kind of stuff. I'm so inspired right now, I'm going to have to curb myself from making any rash purchases
bubs
bubs
SA
924 posts
SA, 924 posts
5 Nov 2006 12:44pm
ive herd the "your weight + 20" theory and dont like it at all. i was about 60kg when i went onto a 100L board and i taken that out in 20 knots and been fine (out of control due to sail size!). when your at an intermediate level your not going to out in 25 knots. I think you want somthing easy to up haul in big chop which for me was about 110L to 115L. that is what i would recomend from my experiances. i'm 65kg and are almost on the verge of sinkin my 100L board that i have now.

I think a perfect transittion is a 110 to 115L board with a newer than 2000 sail in about 15 knots of wind. just to get the hang of things. you start to loose interest if you have to spend 30 to 45 mins getting use to a 80L board. it took me about 10 mins to get use to my board and the first time i got it up and going i was flyin along in bout 10 knots of wind with a 5.0. felt fast at the time anyway.

anyway thats what i think othawise it becomes to time consuming and you have to be sailing once a week or more to get the hang of it.

bubs
nitai
nitai
QLD
62 posts
QLD, 62 posts
5 Nov 2006 12:39pm
Hi belijae,

I recently just upgraded my rig from older gear and I'm about the same weight as you and only been sailing for 1 season. I see from your profile that you're on the Gold Coast but if you frequent Brisso I suggest you check out www.wind-surf.com.au I just bought my gear from there. Steve who owns the shop was highly recommended by the guys that sail here and he has some nice 2nd hand boards for flat water and i'm more than happy with my purchases. Maybe give him a call, he might be able to offer you some help.

Good luck.

and oh yeah, the newer gear makes a big difference. Lighter, smoother, sexier!
hobie14t
hobie14t
QLD
259 posts
QLD, 259 posts
5 Nov 2006 7:08pm
quote:
Originally posted by nitai

I suggest you check out www.wind-surf.com.au I just bought my gear from there. Steve who owns the shop was highly recommended by the guys that sail here and he has some nice 2nd hand boards for flat water..




I would agree he is a top bloke and has a great range of second and new gear.. PS Its Simon at Board Crazy aka www.wind-surf.com.au
Chris 249
Chris 249
NSW
3585 posts
NSW, 3585 posts
5 Nov 2006 8:35pm
Just to put in a contrasting opinion.......

While going smaller as you get bigger is one way to go - and a very good one in many ways - it's just one way to go. If you like sailing in all conditions - light winds as well as strong - going for a smaller board can be a problem. Big boards may be harder to handle in strong winds, but whether that's a bad thing or not depends on how often you sail in strong winds and what sort of challenge you're after.

I got the hang of a smaller board many years ago, and then stopped windsurfing and never really got back into it until I once against started sailing gear with a volume equivalent to my weight +125-150L or more. I've sailed boards with a volume equivalent to my weight - 35 L or so, but these days they just sit down the side of the house and only get wet when it rains.

Different strokes for different folks, and at different times in their lives, or when looking for different things. The real beauty of this sport (to me) is the versatility; the fact that it can be so many different things, not just a contest to sail the smallest possible board.

So before just saying you should go to the smallest board you can handle, why not ask a few more questions; like how hard it blows when you go sailing; which of the many challenges you like in sailing; how much do you like being overpowered compared to being underpowered; how often do you want to change gear; how many boards do you want; what do you want to get from the sport; if you're normally sailing in 10-15 knots, why sail a board designed for 25 knots; etc?
rosey
rosey
NSW
575 posts
NSW, 575 posts
5 Nov 2006 8:42pm
bubs you dont make much sense...you say that an intermediate wont go go out 25knots (which i think is a load to start with) but then you say you need the big board so you can uphaul in heavy chop?
unless you are sailing in the middle of sydney harbour you arent going to get big chop in under 25knots...
belijae you are best to go with an 85-90l freewave/freeride board, depending on where you want to progress to, but i think going to one of those demo days would be a great idea
nebbian
nebbian
WA
6277 posts
WA, 6277 posts
5 Nov 2006 6:24pm
Belijae,

Do you sail at the train (End of Smith St motorway / North st, Southport)?

If so then keep an eye out for people who are doing freestyle there (Haircut? JF?) and ask them what the best board to get would be. Don't rush into buying a new board, but if you've got the urge to go down a board size, then treat yourself for Christmas
Gestalt
Gestalt
QLD
14968 posts
QLD, 14968 posts
5 Nov 2006 8:46pm
hi belijae,

sean o'brien is selling a freestyle board which may work for you. you should ask him if you can sail it first to see what you think.

seanobrien.com.au/bio/

you may also be a good cnadidate for the windwanderers library to try something intermediate to gain confidence before you buy. i haven't completed the list yet but send me a mail if you are keen.

cheers
gestalt.
bubs
bubs
SA
924 posts
SA, 924 posts
5 Nov 2006 10:23pm
quote:
Originally posted by rosey

bubs you dont make much sense...you say that an intermediate wont go go out 25knots (which i think is a load to start with) but then you say you need the big board so you can uphaul in heavy chop?
unless you are sailing in the middle of sydney harbour you arent going to get big chop in under 25knots...
belijae you are best to go with an 85-90l freewave/freeride board, depending on where you want to progress to, but i think going to one of those demo days would be a great idea




rosey

i think my idea of chop might be a bit different to yours. i am still not sailing in more than 20 knots that often my self as i dont get around to sailing as much as i would like. so as i said before my idea of heavy chop may be compleatyly different to yours and what i considder heavy may be next to nothing for you.

however i still think coming off a big board straight onto a 80L board would one, be quite difficult, and two, you would be limited as to what winds you could go out in. from my experiance comming from a big board down to a small board was quite a large step and i think that hopping straight onto 80L would be quite difficult.

this also greatly depends out how often you get to sail. if you sail more you are obviousily going to pick things up quicker.
Edge
Edge
WA
136 posts
WA, 136 posts
5 Nov 2006 8:09pm
285 120L~ to 254 82L, Myself, I'm finding it fine. Took me a few sails to get feeling right, but now I'm just pulling off some semi plaining jybes.

I do however get on the tiga 285 sometimes finding everything so much easier but I prefer improve my skills on my small board.

'...you would be limited as to what winds you could go out in.'

Very true, Although I only really have fun when I'm plaining!

Just my view (I had to pitch in)

James.
nitai
nitai
QLD
62 posts
QLD, 62 posts
5 Nov 2006 10:41pm
quote:
Originally posted by hobie14t
I would agree he is a top bloke and has a great range of second and new gear.. PS Its Simon at Board Crazy aka www.wind-surf.com.au



Oops Yeah, Simon at Board Crazy. Thnks hobie
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