waterstarts

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nick125
nick125
27 posts
27 posts
22 May 2007 6:41pm
ok, first time windsurfing in a while on sunday, and had same sorta problems as before. i have a older slalom board that i can rope start on, but would like to be able to waterstart. i have nailed 4 waterstarts ever and bar 1 were all pretty fluky.

i can get rig clear and i think i know what to do. i just struggle to get from rig at like 20 degrees from horizontal to nearly upright. i also struggle to get a leg on the board as i seem to be getting dragged along (because im sailing but am in the water).

what kind of angles do you do (with respect to the wind) from start to finnish. i seem to start with the nose facing into the wind then be swimming the rig into the wind whilst lifting when i have it flying when should i be trying to get foot on (like parralel to the wind or somthing)
decrepit
decrepit
WA
12885 posts
WA, 12885 posts
22 May 2007 7:38pm
I'm using wave gear, but principal should be similar.

Flying the rig varies, the easiest way is use the back of the board, just drag the boom over it if touches it. If it misses put one hand on back of board, with other hand drag the boom over first arm. This should be done with rig across the wind.
If the rig is pointing into the wind you can start at the head and work your way back down the mast.

Once the rig is flying, align board at right angles to wind, put back foot in it's strap. Push sail up, pull back foot towards me, all the time keeping board pointing across the wind.
This is very important, point too high sail loses power and you sink, point too low and you'll get thrown round the front.
If underpowered you can point a bit lower, if overpowered you can point a bit higher.
I find back foot in strap helps with this control.
If underpowered I kick with front foot, this lessens downwind drift, giving sail more power, and helps lift you out of the water.


If you're getting draged before you get a foot on, you're too late with your foot, put it on the board earlier.
When you get it nailed, and reasonably powered, you can vigourously pull the sail towards you, then throw it into the air (without letting go) sail will just snatch you out of the water, let off the power a tad, so you land on the board with both feet.

There's not many of us use the back foot in strap method, a lot of sailors find it uncomfortable, but I always recommend giving it a reasonable go. If you can't get on with it try front foot in strap, or back foot on top of board somewhere.
WINDY MILLER
WINDY MILLER
WA
3183 posts
WA, 3183 posts
22 May 2007 7:49pm
top tip:

rest the boom on the tail of the board

if the boom goes over the edge, make a bridge with your arm to rest the boom on...

makes getting the sail out the water a synch,saves heaps of energy from thrashing around when u r learning and will assist in lining up the board for the correct direction
WINDY MILLER
WINDY MILLER
WA
3183 posts
WA, 3183 posts
22 May 2007 7:51pm
top tip 2

use the ball of your heel instead of a flat foot when mounting, acts as a lever ...make it easy
WINDY MILLER
WINDY MILLER
WA
3183 posts
WA, 3183 posts
22 May 2007 7:54pm
top tip 3

practice in waist to chest high, flat water
fob
fob
WA
89 posts
fob fob
WA, 89 posts
22 May 2007 8:00pm
when you are in the water holding the boom, you can move the angle of the board around by swimming the boom towards the board or away. the angle of the board will change because it will pivot on the fin.

you need to get the sail laying more or less perpendicular to the wind. and the tail of the board needs to be under your heel.

also as you get pulled up clear of the water try to shimmy foward with the rig to point more downwind so you dont stall and loose power.


nebbian
nebbian
WA
6277 posts
WA, 6277 posts
22 May 2007 11:54pm
Saying this repeatedly worked for me:

"Waterstarting is just a controlled catapult".
jmac
jmac
WA
29 posts
WA, 29 posts
23 May 2007 10:05am
I always start with the mast perpendicular to the wind, then lift it a little just to get the wind underneath it, then start moving it round 'till you are holding on to the boom (the mast is now more parallel to the wind).

the board should be pretty much perpendicular to the wind as well, maybe pointing a little more downwind.

Sometimes I just stay floating in the water with the rig held above me for a while untill I can feel a decent gust or get a bit of a wave that can lift me onto the board - though if you stay like this with your feet on the board you are going to drift downwind pretty fast, so I usually do this while 'hanging' off the rig, then as soon as I feel that the rig can pull me up I put my back foot in the back footstrap (just started doing this a while ago - seems to work really well for me) and go..
grumplestiltskin
grumplestiltskin
WA
2331 posts
WA, 2331 posts
23 May 2007 10:30am
It also depends how hard the wind is blowing.

If its blowing hard enough I like to fly the sail, then get both feet into the straps and basically sail up out of the water. nuthin better

But if its lighter you have to adjust, get your feet further forward, sometimes even grabbing the mast below the boom with your front hand to try and get the sail higher. Its hard to give a definitive "this is how your waterstart".

Practice, practice, practice ..... and as a newbie you will be doing plenty of practice .... in fact the adage, you cant teach an old dog new tricks, seems to apply to me, coz I am still doing lots of waterstarts especially after failed gybes
The Grinch
The Grinch
WA
733 posts
WA, 733 posts
23 May 2007 10:41am
www.easyuphaul.com/

Saw this on a site while looking for some tips for you.

Might help when you are learning you never know.
You could make one out pipe insulation.

Maybe get someone down the beach who can waterstart to show you how he/she does it. Watch them a coupla times to get some tips.
MJP68
MJP68
QLD
147 posts
QLD, 147 posts
23 May 2007 2:04pm
Nick,

I learnt out of an awesome little booklet called "I love to waterstart" that a friend brought back from maui years ago. it's a shame you can't get it anymore coz for me it just nailed the tequnique in words and stick pictures.

all I can add to what the others have said, particularly to your situation, is this:

once you've flown the rig and you've got a foot on the board on the centreline, and you have things basically under control*, you need to do two things at the same time..

1) Instead of pulling down on the boom, you actually need to stretch up and away to give it as much air as you can, while...

2) ... trying to tuck the foot that you do have on the board under your bum, giving you a slight bear-away.

It's a bugger of a skill when you're starting out, really handy if you've got a tutor that knows the steps!

Matt

(* by control I mean you should be able to "sail" along slowly with feet up on board, body dragging along in water)
Bails
Bails
WA
158 posts
WA, 158 posts
23 May 2007 12:05pm
Hey on a kind of unrelated topic, I'm claiming to have invented a new kind of waterstart, although I'm happy to be told it's commonplace, but I've never seen anyone else doing it. I call it the reverse waterstart.

It's the same as a normal waterstart except instead of climbing on from the windward side of the board, you climb on from the leeward side. I use it when I've fallen on the leeward side of the board but am still hanging on to the rig. Rather than swimming around the back of the board, carrying the rig, I just sheet in, give a big powerful kick to get my body right out of the water and step backwards onto the board. Takes a bit of flexibility and plenty of pressure in the sail otherwise you have no chance.
NotWal
NotWal
QLD
7436 posts
QLD, 7436 posts
23 May 2007 2:35pm
Ooooh Bails, I don't get it. You are in the water on the leeward side with the booms in your hand. How can you sheet in from there?
NotWal
NotWal
QLD
7436 posts
QLD, 7436 posts
23 May 2007 2:38pm
Waterstarting tip - Try tying a plastic bottle to the end of your booms to stop the clew from sinking.
mineral1
mineral1
WA
4564 posts
WA, 4564 posts
23 May 2007 1:19pm
quote:
Originally posted by NotWal

Waterstarting tip - Try tying a plastic bottle to the end of your booms to stop the clew from sinking.


0r get a pool noodle and strap it to end of boom. looks a bit rough but works a treat Best thing is, it stops the sail from sinking and makes it just that much easier to fly.
The Grinch quote re the waterstart web page, best one to use.
grumplestiltskin
grumplestiltskin
WA
2331 posts
WA, 2331 posts
23 May 2007 1:59pm
quote:
I call it the reverse waterstart.


I've already patented that. The reverse waterstart is called the SPLAT, quite a lot of people call it a catapult.
Bails
Bails
WA
158 posts
WA, 158 posts
23 May 2007 3:17pm
quote:
Originally posted by NotWal

Ooooh Bails, I don't get it. You are in the water on the leeward side with the booms in your hand. How can you sheet in from there?



Hard to explain mate. I haven't really analysed it much. I think you just keep the rig in the normal trimmed position as if you were on a square reach. This keeps pressure in the sail. But obviously the board would get in the way if it were in the normal square reach position so I think I end up with the nose facing a bit more downwind, this gives you space between the rig and the back of the board.

I get my front foot on the board then kind of use that leverage to propel my weight onto the board and out to windward and sheet in at the same time.

But as I said, you need plenty of wind so it's not as critical to sheet in strongly.
nick125
nick125
27 posts
27 posts
23 May 2007 6:10pm
thanks very much guys hopefully i can get a lift to some eastern suburbs beach next time its windy
nick125
nick125
27 posts
27 posts
23 May 2007 6:12pm
thanks very much guys hopefully i can get a lift to some eastern suburbs beach next time its windy
decrepit
decrepit
WA
12885 posts
WA, 12885 posts
23 May 2007 7:41pm
quote:
Originally posted by Bails



Hard to explain mate. I haven't really analysed it much. I think you just keep the rig in the normal trimmed position as if you were on a square reach. This keeps pressure in the sail. But obviously the board would get in the way if it were in the normal square reach position so I think I end up with the nose facing a bit more downwind, this gives you space between the rig and the back of the board.

I get my front foot on the board then kind of use that leverage to propel my weight onto the board and out to windward and sheet in at the same time.

But as I said, you need plenty of wind so it's not as critical to sheet in strongly.



You may well be the inventor of something new!!
I've never seen or heard of this method, doesn't mean nobody else has done it of course.
Surprised you can get it to work, as the sail must be pulling you away from the board.
Next well powered day, I'm going to try it!
Chris 249
Chris 249
NSW
3585 posts
NSW, 3585 posts
23 May 2007 11:06pm
The most common waterstart problem is people lying back in the water, almost fully stretched, expecting the wind to pick them up.

It's more a case of being in the water, one foot on the board with knee bent so your body is more vertical and closer to the board. The other foot is kicking; this acts like a centreboard and stops the board sailing away, as well as giving lift. This goes on while the rig becomes very vertical. Once the rig is up and vertical, you pull yourself up on the booms and sail away.

Don't always think about the rig lifting you out; think about you letting the rig lift itrself out and then, when it's flying, pull yourself up.

It sounds like you've got it right, pretty much. But if you're just laying around waiting to get picked up, you will be getting dragged away. And having the rig inclined and expecting to get picked up means that most of the power is pushing you to leeward or dragging you along, rather than lifting the rig (and then you) up.

In really strong winds, technique changes...same in vey light winds when you can grab the mast low down with the front hand and the foot of the sail with the other. Get the rig flying and vertical, and only then grovel onto the board on your chest and then your belly, then your knees and finally stand up.
nebbian
nebbian
WA
6277 posts
WA, 6277 posts
23 May 2007 9:17pm
In the words of Peter Hart:
"Headbutt the mast foot"

Once you get it, you'll wonder what all the fuss was about
nick125
nick125
27 posts
27 posts
24 May 2007 5:25pm
thanks chriss. you have pretty well described how i waterstart in your first paragraph lol
MintoxGT
MintoxGT
WA
975 posts
WA, 975 posts
24 May 2007 6:07pm
My 2c worth,

Nebbs and everyone are spot one, I reckon that am the last person here to learn to water start last season, here is what I did.

#1 Remember everything that you have read after you do this and it will be a sinch.

#2 get a competent windsurfing buddy to stay with you for 15 to 30 mins so they can advise you what you are doing wrong. If they winge that want to sail bribe with beer :)

#3 Grab a windier day that a light wind day and also stay in waist deep water, so when you get your front foot on the board your back leg can still just touch the bottom, this is purly to keep the whole kit alligned with wind waves and so on. You will soon not need the back foot touching the bottom. This about getting the confidence and feel we all need. The back foot become a stabiliser, propeller and a keel.

#4 Already mentioned, stay crouched until the kit pulls you over, DONT STAND UP (Catapault time if ya do) let it pull you to far so you get wet on the down wind side of the kit, this is so you start to know how it feels, let this happen a couple of times.

#5 Take your time get your breath and be patient, rushing only makes a frustrated newbie angry (I have had some worried looks from sailors as I have belted out anger screams) Now look towards the wind see the water change to a dark ripple and get ready, now go for it, stay low, hang off the boom, point down wind a bit to get speed and you should be standing by now.

#6 as soon as you get going drop the rig and do it again while fresh in your mind.

I swear you will be up and water starting that day, try and stay in a shallow area, it makes life easier and you wont be as tired.

I went to Cervates for the speed weekend last season, all I did the first day was exactly this, heaps of short runs and man o man do you feel good when yopu get it, I then followed Gadgets wife out about 800 meters off shore where water starting was the only way as uphauling sux

Sometimes I get a bit screwed up but if you stay calm and dont rush you will be all stoke!

Regards and I hope this helps, remeber everything everyone else said is correct but dont think too much about it.

Cheers GT
drowned rat
drowned rat
WA
37 posts
WA, 37 posts
29 May 2007 1:41pm
As a newbie yet to succesfully do a water start, I looked at the video on that waterstart site posted by The Grinch and I think it makes it a lot clearer, even if he is using his water start gadget. Many thanks.
MJP68
MJP68
QLD
147 posts
QLD, 147 posts
29 May 2007 3:55pm

here's another video all about waterstarting:

http://www.totalvid.com/Windsurfing-Videos/The-ABCs-Of-Waterstarting/

you can sign up for the free 7 day trial and watch it a few times for free (i personally continue to pay the subscription coz there's heaps of really good quality stuff on there, not just windsurfing either).

thanks to whoever pointed out that site a few posts ago, great find.

matt
Bails
Bails
WA
158 posts
WA, 158 posts
29 May 2007 4:11pm
quote:
Originally posted by decrepit

quote:
Originally posted by Bails



Hard to explain mate. I haven't really analysed it much. I think you just keep the rig in the normal trimmed position as if you were on a square reach. This keeps pressure in the sail. But obviously the board would get in the way if it were in the normal square reach position so I think I end up with the nose facing a bit more downwind, this gives you space between the rig and the back of the board.

I get my front foot on the board then kind of use that leverage to propel my weight onto the board and out to windward and sheet in at the same time.

But as I said, you need plenty of wind so it's not as critical to sheet in strongly.



You may well be the inventor of something new!!
I've never seen or heard of this method, doesn't mean nobody else has done it of course.
Surprised you can get it to work, as the sail must be pulling you away from the board.
Next well powered day, I'm going to try it!



Let me know how you go remember to face front on, not side on.
decrepit
decrepit
WA
12885 posts
WA, 12885 posts
29 May 2007 6:43pm
Glad you reminded me, I'd forgotten all about it. Now all I've got to do is remember until we get some wind!

Anybody got any spare brain cells!!!
NotWal
NotWal
QLD
7436 posts
QLD, 7436 posts
30 May 2007 6:47pm
Jeez Mintox, you got it in a day. That's outstanding. It took me ages. If I had to do it all over I'd do it your way.
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