Just doing the scoring system at the moment, and want some input on the fairest way of figuring out how points should be allocated.

We've got 6 categories:

• 2 second peak
  
• 5 x 10 second average
  
• 1 hour
  
• Alpha Racing 500m
  
• Nautical Mile
  
• Distance Travelled

Now I know the leading team should get 1 point, and the next team 2 points, etc. But how do you decide this?

Eg. we have two teams:
Team 1: 20kts, 19kts, 18kts, 17kts, 16kts, and 100nm.
Team 2: 30kts, 29kts, 28kts, 27kts, 26kts, and 10nm.

I tried taking the average of all the values for each team, and then the team with the highest value becomes the winner. But that meant that the Distance Travelled trumped everything.

So what formula should we use to figure out the score for a team, taking into account everything? Divide distance by a certain amount? What's a reasonable distance to sail in a day?

Hi Nebbs,

My 2c worth, this is a speed comp, lets keep it simple amd next year after analysing feedback from this year look at the divisions, maybe the top divison will want to measure everything and the B divison will want just speed stats?

I think go with these 4 to start as they relate specifically to speed.
# 2 second peak
# 5 x 10 second average
# 1 hour
# Alpha Racing 500m

Distance travelled contains variances such as amount of wind, ocean conditions, current flow and so on. Not realy a speed relevence, sure you camn measure distance v time = speed but if the distance always over rides the other collected data then why bother, just see who goes the farthest (Yuk) We are in for speed, ok doing a moderatly nimble pass every now and then in my case:)

I like the who is the overall fastest team and remember dont make too much work for yourselves to guys, we want you out there as well and spending time with freinds and family.

Cheers GT

Good question Nebbs, we need lots of input here:

These are my views.

1. It was originally a speed competition and the 2sec peak, 5x10sec ave , and 500m, speeds are all about who is the fastest and are objective measures of this, and then this is calculated across the team, so we get a team ave, ie. which is fastest team. So speed is covered.

2. However, there were lot's of views that if we just measured speed only, that the natural Advantage of a place like Sandy Point, would mean all they need is one decent blow per month, and they would win easily, and everyone else would be a long way second.

3. In order to even this up, we included Alpha Racing over 500m, which is also a test of gybing skill, and sailing across the wind.

4. 1 hour speed was also considered important as a test of endurance, sailing speed across the wind, and also gybing.

5. Distance travelled was a way of giving the endurance sailors, who have no chance of posting high speeds, an ability to contirbute to their team by upping the distance travelled average.


So in my opinion, each category needs to have equal value therefore equal points awarded. That is my humble opinion, I'm not a world expert, and I would value, and listen to ther's ideas!!!!!

Good point Hardie,

The question is: how do we award equal points?

Do we rank all the teams according to 2secPeak, 5x10, 1hr, Alpha, Nm and Distance,
then add up all the ranking numbers and the team with the lowest score wins?

Seems to work I think...

EDIT: DAM71 beat me to it. OK I'll do it that way. Thanks for the help

OK one further question:

The system described by Dam71 is all well and good when you've only got one session to look at per month, but how do you decide which session to use when a team might put in multiple sessions in per month?

One session might have a good top speed, but not much distance, and another session might have good distance but low speeds. How do you choose which one to use for scoring?

Hi Hardie,

That makes sense. I'll go with your idea.

I'm trying to make the database do everything possible, so the captain just inputs all the data for his/her team for that session, and the website automatically picks the best numbers for that team. That means less work for the captain, and more accuracy.

I was getting confused because I led myself down the garden path a little bit, didn't fully understand the scoring system you had envisaged.

Later on (once the site is live) I'll allow everyone to input their own numbers (and the database will recognise this based on the session date), but for now it's the captain's job to do it.

Thanks for that!

you only have to neutralize SP once. Because of the curved nature of the bar most walk half way back. That hits their 1hour. They can't sail a NM there so that hit's them again. Distance traveled? They only have a short window with the tide. Hit a 3rd time?
The reality Hardie, is that the only way you'd have a fair comp is if everyone is at the same place at the same time. As it is, it will always be a comp between locales rather than riders.

To even out the Sandy Point factor try this

38 kts at S.P is pretty good sailing and yes a few can get to 40kts
36 kts any where else is pretty good

If one team of 4 does 38 kts ave and travels 60 km ( A real ave for S.P)
38 kts (Team ave) x 60km = 2280 (Second place)
Another team of 4 does 36 ave and travels 64 km

36 kts x 64km =2304 (First place)

Another team does 20.75 ave and travels 110 km

20.75 x 110 =2282 They are now in second place

I,ve tried lots of different combo,s and it seams to reward who push the limits, be it speed or distance.

It would work with any of the categories

This would let the teams with not a lot of wind compete for the overall trophy on a level playing field they just have to sail a longer distance.

Please find some holes in the system we want an even comp

Yoyo

quote:

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you only have to neutralize SP once. Because of the curved nature of the bar most walk half way back. That hits their 1hour. They can't sail a NM there so that hit's them again. Distance traveled? They only have a short window with the tide. Hit a 3rd time?

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My one hour at sp is pretty good.Distance a lot and nm not bad either. Let the games begin.

Hey Kato,

So how does that work with 5 "other" divisions? Do you multiply every number by the distance travelled, so distance becomes 5 times as important as all the other numbers?

Very very tricky business this scoring

My thoughts are that Hardies system is the best, distance is just another category, and you figure out the ranks for all the 6 different categories, then add the ranks for each team, and the team withe the lowest scores wins, that way I believe that it's the fairest system?

I'm trying to make this simple, and fair... I'm hoping those two aren't mutually exclusive!

Hey Kato,

I sent you an email.

I'm curious as to whether S.P. really is as good as everyone says it is, after having a bit of an explore on google earth there are a number of places up here that look like they stop the waves but don't stop the wind.

The dilemma I face is that I have to make the system simple, fair, and easy to check up on. I don't want a bug in the system to make one state have bragging rights when another deserves it... so that means Joe Average should be able to check the scoring, easily, and simply.

In the same vein, I don't want the S.P. guys to be disadvantaged!

We want to reward people who've pushed their limits, tried something new, and gotten to a new level. Hopefully everyone who's entered will sail just a tiny bit more because of the competition, knowing that their result will contribute to their team's cause. But I really don't want to turn this into just an endurance marathon. Someone who pushes the limits should be rewarded, even if they don't sail for a huge distance.

quote:

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Originally posted by nebbian



We want to reward people who've pushed their limits, tried something new, and gotten to a new level. Hopefully everyone who's entered will sail just a tiny bit more because of the competition, knowing that their result will contribute to their team's cause. But I really don't want to turn this into just an endurance marathon. Someone who pushes the limits should be rewarded, even if they don't sail for a huge distance.

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I agree!!!!!!

It's going to be impossible to make this totally fair, without everyone sailing on the same day in the same conditions. This is about being involved with a little bit for everyone.

We have plans to make it bigger and better, but we haven't even got it going yet. Rules will be reviewed at end of 30 June, everone gets an input there.

Lets keep it as simple as possible for the moment. At end of year, if some of my other plans have come to fruition, then we can do a variety of things. Remember Inclusion and Participation, something for everyone. We gotta have fun. And Ben and I will listen to everything everyone says, and if we can make something happen... it will!

This is for people that are passionate about windsurfing.......

Can we keep the categories separate all the way thru, so that this team wins this but that team wins that???? Then anybody can make their own subjective judgment over what is more important.

Decrepits idea will be on the (currently not yet implemented) "Rankings" page. I had it planned for a while.

I was thinking 6 tables, one for each of the categories, which shows which state is winning for that month in that category.

Decrepit, what are your thoughts on an overall winner at the end of the year?

yeah well that's the hard one isn't it. I think everybody's going to have a different slant on that.
I'm just so new to this whole speed thing, I don't really know what the different speed categories imply, re difficulty, etc.
And trying to incorporate distance covered into it fairly, is a job for Marvin, and could take his whole planet size brain.

If I had to figure it out, I'd throw up my hands and keep it separate.

Hmmm it's a minefield isn't it. And everyone's got a slightly different idea of who should win.

Thanks all for the suggestions, they are very much appreciated.

I'll go with the "Rank the teams into six separate leaderboards (one per category), then figure out which team has the lowest score out of that".

If one team (or state) consistently comes out on top then that will become obvious after a couple of months. Bear in mind that most sections are monthly, so if you're the first team to post for a certain month, you get bragging rights for a day or two at least

had a thought overnight, goes like this.

To make it fair each of the 6 categories needs to have a 16.66% weighting for determining overall leader.

Methods so far suggested seem to give distance 50% and the rest 8.333%

Sorry if this had already been said, but I've got mandurah's secret weapon to get on with, can't be bothered going back thru all the posts.
What if team aggregate distance is divided by number of team members, to produce average distance.

Team averages are compared, and order of ranking assigned, ie 1st 2nd 3rd etc.

These numbers are then added to the speed numbers.