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Forums > Windsurfing   Gps and Speed talk

Gps blue tooth logger that's legal .

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Created by DUKE4 A week ago, 26 Mar 2020
DUKE4
SA, 36 posts
26 Mar 2020 11:13PM
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Hi guys ,
I've read the blue tooth connectivity thread,
im new to Gps sailing and have the evil gw60 watch that never connects !????

So are you guys telling me there is no device out there that has Bluetooth and gps, 5 hz plus and has error correction that is legal for logging on website?!

thinking that simple motion logger now is only option and keep gw60 as the display .

Thanks guys

decrepit
WA, 9853 posts
26 Mar 2020 10:00PM
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That's probably it, but I think the full size motion with screen will also have blue tooth and induction charging

sailquik
VIC, 4950 posts
27 Mar 2020 1:08PM
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I feel like I need to clear up some possible misconceptions about the use of the terms 'Bluetooth GPS' and 'GPS Loggers'.

They are two very different things and a device does not nessasarily do both.

I know the OP was looking for a BT GPS to use with GPS-Logit for posting to the GPSTC.

Unfortunately, as far as I can find, there are no currently made commercially available GPS BT devices that are suitable for the GPSTC.

There used to be at least one, but it was discontinued by the manufacturer around 10 years ago:

Wintec G-Rays 1:

This device is not a Logger! It does not have any way to record the data, only to send it to another BT enabled device like GPS-Logit Android Phone App. It used the Ublox 6 chipset and can be set up to output Doppler Error data (UBX sentences) and can be approved for GPSTC posting.

Here are examples of custom home made devices that do exactly the same thing but are based on the later M8 multi GNSS ublox chipset that
can do Muliti GNSS data up to 10Hz and GPS only data up to 18Hz (The same chipset the Motion uses).

Made by Manfred Fuchs:


For Scale (the G-Rays 1 was even smaller):



Made by Mathew Robertson:








If anyone knows a good electronics fabricator or hobbyist, these devices are not that hard to make. There is essentially 3 components. The M8 GNSS module, the BT Module and a battery with some sort of charging connection - oh, and a switch for on and off.

To make something into a Logger, one has to add a few other things that make it a bit more complicated. Decrepit and Boardsurf can fill you in on that, but here is a pic of a very neat and compact Twin GPS, 10 Hz logger that Manfred made and I tested for him against the timing gates at Luderitz in 2013. This one was based on two Ublox 6 modules and each had a seperate SD card to record the data.








sailquik
VIC, 4950 posts
27 Mar 2020 1:23PM
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There are actually a few 'GPS' Loggers that do send data by Bluetooth concurrently. But, as far as a can find out, none use the ublox GPS chipset that is easily configurable to produce the Doppler Error data.

Here is an example of a current one that produces NMEA data, (which is better than most GPS devices), but still not adequate for GPSTC. It would work with GPS-Logit but unless you have a need for 10Hz data, (skiing?) you might as well use the internal GPS in the Android phone with GPS-Logit as it is much simpler and still gives good on the water feedback. These devices are also over A$300.

It is configurable to 10Hz and can accurately be called a Bluetooth Logger. :

sailquik
VIC, 4950 posts
27 Mar 2020 1:44PM
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For what it's worth, Wintec do still make a small, low cost GPS/GNSS device that contains a unblox Chipset and in theory it could record the data the GPS-TC needs. However, it looks like it can currently only be configured to produce NMEA data output for Recording internally, or for BT transmission.




Of course, I got all excted when I read the blurb on their website and read the specifications.





And then right next to that there is this:




So I reasoned that it would probably be possible for them to add a few lines of code to their firmware so that the device could be configured (as their earlier G-Rays 1 could be) to produce UBX data, and therefore the data the GPSTC needs. I assumed, perhaps naively, that this would be a pretty simple task for them and not too expensive or time consuming.

So I wrote to them and asked if they could add the functionallty to their firmware, assuring them that there is a market for such a slightly modified device among windsurfers worldwide.

I was extremely disappointed to get this response from the sales guy:

Hi Andrew,

Sorry for that. We don't have time to do this. There are many other project doing now. Please kindly understanding. TKS

BR

WTF!??? What is all the blurb on their website about anyhow. Is it just BS??

www.win-tec.com.tw/portfolio-item/wbt202/

sailquik
VIC, 4950 posts
27 Mar 2020 2:45PM
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I just dug out my old G-Rays 1 to take a size comparison photo.

I can confirm that I have tested it with GPS-Logit and it worked well. Results were comparable to the GW-52 and GW-60 but not as good as with the later ublox M8 chipset in the custom BT GPS, or in the Motion.

In this picture, it's just plugged in for charging so I can see if the battery is still good. One good thing about it is that the battery is easily removable and replaceable.




It is interesting historically, that Roo (Kean Rogers) and Chris Lockwood experimented with this GPS at least 10 years ago, probably closer to 15 years ago, by connecting it to a Palm Pilot and recording the data that way. I think this was probably the first time anyone got 10Hz GPS windsurfing data.

Mal Wright bought this one to experiment with at that time, and eventually gave it to me. I wasn't able to use it for windsurfing data until many years later when Manfred Fuchs produced GPS-Logit.

Stretchy
WA, 543 posts
27 Mar 2020 1:31PM
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Select to expand quote
sailquik said..
For what it's worth, Wintec do still make a small, low cost GPS/GNSS device that contains a unblox Chipset and in theory it could record the data the GPS-TC needs. However, it looks like it can currently only be configured to produce NMEA data output for Recording internally, or for BT transmission.




Of course, I got all excted when I read the blurb on their website and read the specifications.





And then right next to that there is this:




So I reasoned that it would probably be possible for them to add a few lines of code to their firmware so that the device could be configured (as their earlier G-Rays 1 could be) to produce UBX data, and therefore the data the GPSTC needs. I assumed, perhaps naively, that this would be a pretty simple task for them and not too expensive or time consuming.

So I wrote to them and asked if they could add the functionallty to their firmware, assuring them that there is a market for such a slightly modified device among windsurfers worldwide.

I was extremely disappointed to get this response from the sales guy:

Hi Andrew,

Sorry for that. We don't have time to do this. There are many other project doing now. Please kindly understanding. TKS

BR

WTF!??? What is all the blurb on their website about anyhow. Is it just BS??

www.win-tec.com.tw/portfolio-item/wbt202/



Select to expand quote
sailquik said..
For what it's worth, Wintec do still make a small, low cost GPS/GNSS device that contains a unblox Chipset and in theory it could record the data the GPS-TC needs. However, it looks like it can currently only be configured to produce NMEA data output for Recording internally, or for BT transmission.




Of course, I got all excted when I read the blurb on their website and read the specifications.





And then right next to that there is this:




So I reasoned that it would probably be possible for them to add a few lines of code to their firmware so that the device could be configured (as their earlier G-Rays 1 could be) to produce UBX data, and therefore the data the GPSTC needs. I assumed, perhaps naively, that this would be a pretty simple task for them and not too expensive or time consuming.

So I wrote to them and asked if they could add the functionallty to their firmware, assuring them that there is a market for such a slightly modified device among windsurfers worldwide.

I was extremely disappointed to get this response from the sales guy:

Hi Andrew,

Sorry for that. We don't have time to do this. There are many other project doing now. Please kindly understanding. TKS

BR

WTF!??? What is all the blurb on their website about anyhow. Is it just BS??

www.win-tec.com.tw/portfolio-item/wbt202/


Pity, sounds like a nice unit. May be worth trying again in 6 mths time. They might be less busy, or you might get a more motivated salesman?

DUKE4
SA, 36 posts
27 Mar 2020 6:23PM
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Sail quick , thanks fir the insight

A new cable has made my GW 60 connect again I'm hoping that that is all it is but the connectors on the GW 60 are pretty **** .


So I'm guessing my only option is to get the simple motion logger as my formal download to the Internet and if my GW 65 to download I'll just use it as a display .

Or........Buy another GW 60 and put it in a waterproof container every time I sale to protect the four pins from corrosion. I can then charge it as it works and not running the battery every bloody time I sail over 150 kms which is what I want to do every time I go sailing. Hehe

cheers fellas

sailquik
VIC, 4950 posts
27 Mar 2020 7:41PM
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I will try again with Wintec. I will try to get contact with someone who is not the sales guy.

Duke4, the GW-60 contacts have always been a bit of an issue. Mine is at least 3 years old and I often have to clean them or wiggle the connector around a bit, but eventually it always works.

As an aside, Wintec obviously did a reasonable job of the G-Rays. I hadn't touched it for quite a few years, but when I charged it up and tuned it on, it got a good fix and connected to GPS-Logit straight away. And I had never tried it @ 5Hz before, only at 10Hz.







powersloshin
NSW, 1103 posts
28 Mar 2020 12:00AM
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I think the motion is the only hope we have at the moment and we should all be behind it. You can buy 5 small ones and resell 3 or 4 or see if anyone that ordered has a spare

Roo
665 posts
28 Mar 2020 12:23AM
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Just saw this post, didn't realise it was back in 2007 I used the G-Rays to get 10hz doppler data for the first time...where did all those years go.

Been playing with the latest batch of android phones, since Android 7 came out it has been possible to log the raw gps data from the phone. With the latest Android 10 I have it records the doppler speed accuracy S.ACC and also the Pseudorange doppler speed accuracy for each sat (up to 35 sats available using all the constellations). No need for a bluetooth device as it uses the phones internal gps chipset. I've run it at 10hz but 1hz should be more than adequate. If I get time I'll see if I can parse the data to use. This is the app to use to test your phones capabilities. play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.android.gpstest&hl=en_US




jimbob SA
SA, 953 posts
28 Mar 2020 8:48AM
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Select to expand quote
powersloshin said..
I think the motion is the only hope we have at the moment and we should all be behind it. You can buy 5 small ones and resell 3 or 4 or see if anyone that ordered has a spare


Wasn't it April last year you ordered your motion George a year and your still waiting. You have more patience than me or just more hope.

mikey100
QLD, 637 posts
28 Mar 2020 9:07AM
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To quote Master's advice to Caine in that 70s TV show...."Patience Grasshopper. "

sailquik
VIC, 4950 posts
28 Mar 2020 11:38AM
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Select to expand quote
Roo said..
Just saw this post, didn't realise it was back in 2007 I used the G-Rays to get 10hz doppler data for the first time...where did all those years go.

Been playing with the latest batch of android phones, since Android 7 came out it has been possible to log the raw gps data from the phone. With the latest Android 10 I have it records the doppler speed accuracy S.ACC and also the Pseudorange doppler speed accuracy for each sat (up to 35 sats available using all the constellations). No need for a bluetooth device as it uses the phones internal gps chipset. I've run it at 10hz but 1hz should be more than adequate. If I get time I'll see if I can parse the data to use. This is the app to use to test your phones capabilities. play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.android.gpstest&hl=en_US





Great news Roo. You have always been at the leading edge of this tech and clearly still are.

I will be very interested to see how your experiments pan out. Can you name the brand and model of phone you used for this test please? I am thinking that phones all may have different GPS chips in them and some may not be able to give that info.

I guess the obvious question is if that phone works with GPS-Logit and records the data we need to file.

sailquik
VIC, 4950 posts
28 Mar 2020 2:12PM
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Thanks Roo. I cant do that immediatly or easily. I have all Apple phones. And my Android sailing phones are < A$50 cheapies, as I tend to drown and smash them every now and then.

I have asked a couple mates who may have newer expensive A10 phones to check it though.

I will follow up on that phone you posted and see if I can get one as that seems to quite a reasonable price, even in A$.

Roo
665 posts
29 Mar 2020 1:13AM
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Have identified the data stream that contains the sentence with the error data output. This is with a cheap Android 10 phone, Umidigi A3S.

Here's an example: Location I onLocationChanged: Location[gps 45.659440,-121.349485 hAcc=2 et=+1d23h6m2s278ms alt=353.3 vel=0.0 bear=6.19 vAcc=27 sAcc=1 bAcc=180 {Bundle[mParcelledData.dataSize=96]}]

Will see if Manfred can incorporate it into GPSLogit to record in the .sbp files it outputs.



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"Gps blue tooth logger that's legal ." started by DUKE4