Forums > Windsurfing   Gps and Speed talk

Motion aqua GPS from Belgium - seems to be interesting or?

Reply
Created by plettil 5 months ago, 1 Sep 2018
plettil
60 posts
1 Sep 2018 11:26PM
Thumbs Up

Hello all,
just bouncing the news that a new GPS for aqua activities is now commercialized in Belgium. It looks very promising on the paper and on the first test made by one of the GPS tester in windsurfing 33 forum Laurent.
The web site of the gear is here : onandon.be/motion/index.html
does anyone know if GPS speedsurfing guru have been working and supporting the initiative? Will it be approved for official speed measures?
i don't have it, have not tried it, don't know it. Just bouncing the info and raising the question.
plettil .... missing wind here in west coast sweden....

boardsurfr
WA, 727 posts
2 Sep 2018 2:35AM
Thumbs Up

299 Euros, no info about waterproofing, no info about the GPS chip used, nothing about accuracy, no "About" or contact info other than an email address. Only two file formats: proprietary or GPX.

In their example data, they show speeds formatted like "58.309km/h". Considering that typical accuracy for maximum speed is +- 1 km/h, using 3-digit precision is nonsense.

Overall, rather strange. Developing a GPS for windsurfing without mentioning precision, and using a freestyle picture as the logo?
--
Edit: in the description of their proprietary format, a few fields are for speed accuracy. Looking at the specs and file fields, it seems quite likely that the unit is based on a u-blox 8 chip, which would mean that it could be a valid alternative to Locosys units for GPSTC (after validation, of course).

JulienLe
25 posts
2 Sep 2018 2:58AM
Thumbs Up

Hello, I subscribed now to answer your questions. Plettil mentioned this topic on another forum [1]. It is an u-blox 8 indeed. With a GNSS-grade TCXO, a SAW, an LNA. The file format is similar to ublox's but more practical and faster to read/write/seek/ditch which improves race-to-sleep and battery life. As speed is logged as mm/s, 3 decimals are exported to m/s in GPXs, yes. Speed units on screen and in the digests are configurable but for simplicity's sake, decimals are kept to 3.
The logo and the company are more than 10 years old : a windsurf shop at the time.

1: www.windsurfing33.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=113546

boardsurfr
WA, 727 posts
2 Sep 2018 8:09AM
Thumbs Up

Thanks for the clarifications and the link, Julien! Do the .GPX files include speed accuracy (sAcc)? Even if they do, that is not a typical field in GPX files, so some GPS programs may not read it (the same will likely be true for conversion programs like GPSBabel).

For GPSTC, we really want the speed accuracy numbers so that bad data can be automatically identified. Therefore it would be great if you could add an option to your utility to export in .ubx format. Theoretically, .sbp or .sbn would also be good (even better until ka72.com supports .ubx files), but sAcc would need to be limited to the smaller range in the Locosys formats.

BTW, I'd love to get my hands on a unit, and would be perfectly happy to do side-by-side comparisons against GW-52s and GW-60s. I've got a bit of experience there .

seanhogan
2987 posts
2 Sep 2018 9:46AM
Thumbs Up

onandon.be/motion/order.html

JulienLe
25 posts
2 Sep 2018 5:21PM
Thumbs Up

I will add .ubx conversion today. It's somewhat of a game to open every single speed sailing parser and see which GPX tag or UBX field it understands or makes use of.

jn1
SA, 1693 posts
2 Sep 2018 9:12PM
Thumbs Up

Hi Julien

What is the battery chemistry ?. Is the battery a standard "off the shelf" model ?, or are your batteries a custom order ? (ie: serviceability). Do you have any capacity/life data on your battery ?

Have you got environmental specs on your device ? (ie: What's the hottest temp your device is happy with before it malfunctions ?). This is relevant in Australia.

Is your LCD display for out door use ?

I agree with boardsurfr - Use a display precision that reflects the measurement accuracy.

Cheers J

JulienLe
25 posts
2 Sep 2018 8:53PM
Thumbs Up

Hello,

5.6Wh, 36-28 hours depending on what it does. Oldest are five years old now.

You can't service this device. Once made, it is sealed forever. So the battery and memory were chosen to be reliable and are used very conservatively to extend life time.

I'll make some real tests about temperature range and report back. It's at least 0-45C but I'll log some tests.

The LCD is special, it's transflective. It is easy to read both in bright sunlight and in the dark.

jn1
SA, 1693 posts
3 Sep 2018 9:38AM
Thumbs Up

But what is the battery capacity after 5 years ?. Nb/ I think any outdoor device that doesn't have an up time of at least 5 hours is not usable. If your device's battery can last at least 3 years with a guaranteed 5 hour up time, I would consider that reasonable in Australian conditions.

As you said, this item is not serviceable, but for future developments, keep battery replacement as a feature in your future designs. Go Pro did a very good thing by having replaceable batteries.

A typical Aussie summer is upper 30's now days, and some sailors in Adelaide normally pack their gear on the last day of a heat wave (+40C. Max 46C in Adelaide), drive to work with their gear in their car to catch the cool change in the afternoon. Cars will exceed of +60C with windows ajar. You can cook a steak on the dash. If device can't achieve this storage temperature range, then have clear warnings in instructions. Something to keep in mind.

www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/as-south-australia-swelters-adelaide-man-cooks-a-steak-in-his-holden-monaro/news-story/f3b6da06515252bf6ad2125ef78787db

plettil
60 posts
4 Sep 2018 1:08AM
Thumbs Up

To my opinion, the most critical characteristic, for a sealed system is the waterproofness....by any means of capillarities under temperature shocks. This is incredibly difficult to avoid.
Julien, I think your product is amazing regarding its function and feature, compared to what is available.
i hope it can be approved by GPS speedsurfing which would open large doors to a monopoly market.

sailquik
VIC, 4289 posts
9 Sep 2018 6:59PM
Thumbs Up




decrepit
WA, 8932 posts
9 Sep 2018 5:06PM
Thumbs Up

That's a great looking band should be very comfortable and non slip.

kato
VIC, 2385 posts
9 Sep 2018 7:43PM
Thumbs Up

Looks really good, what are the waterproof specs ? and is an error file produced?

sailquik
VIC, 4289 posts
10 Sep 2018 7:49AM
Thumbs Up

ublox gps with doppler error data.

Quote from a tester: " It goes without saying that MOTION is completely sealed and requires no cover."

I know this is not any kind of definitive answer to the question of waterproof rating, but given that the developer has specifically designed it to be used for windsurfing, I assume it is pretty good. I'm not sure anything is foolproof though.

Currently priced at 299 Euro. Roughly A$500

More pics:











MattDowse
NSW, 162 posts
10 Sep 2018 8:37AM
Thumbs Up

Looks good with nice big numbers for the us that are long sighted!

Cocky2
QLD, 107 posts
10 Sep 2018 9:35AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
sailquik said..
ublox gps with doppler error data.

Quote from a tester: " It goes without saying that MOTION is completely sealed and requires no cover."

I know this is not any kind of definitive answer to the question of waterproof rating, but given that the developer has specifically designed it to be used for windsurfing, I assume it is pretty good. I'm not sure anything is foolproof though.

Currently priced at 299 Euro. Roughly A$500

More pics:













Also have to pay international transfer fee or PayPal so add about $ 25.

Shame it looks like USB charge and download which is subject to issues after many uses in Saltwater.

Would be great for distance as longer than 24 hr charge.

Nice big writing for eyesight issues.

sailquik
VIC, 4289 posts
10 Sep 2018 11:59AM
Thumbs Up

Also, it has 8GB of internal memory storage, which is good for a lifetime of session for most people, meaning you should never have to delete any previous sessions. Apparently = to about 2000 - 2 hr sessions.

From what I can gather from the linked Dutch forum thread, the screen display includes some sort of 'Genie' which can be configured by the user to display different options.

BSN101
WA, 1485 posts
10 Sep 2018 12:42PM
Thumbs Up

Looks like it's almost perfect. Since this is WS specific how has this been developed without anyone knowing. SB appears to be one of the biggest WS forums in the world but it's turned up sort of out of the blue. Sneaky developers.
If the price was a bit more friendly the Gw60 would have a limited future.

sailquik
VIC, 4289 posts
10 Sep 2018 2:49PM
Thumbs Up

It appears as if the Belgian developer wanted to get it all sorted and working well before making a general announcement. He apparently has been working with a small group of testers in Europe for a few years. I can understand that approach.

BSN101
WA, 1485 posts
10 Sep 2018 2:19PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
sailquik said..
It appears as if the Belgian developer wanted to get it all sorted and working well before making a general announcement. He apparently has been working with a small group of testers in Europe for a few years. I can understand that approach.


They are no competition to Decrepits.

JulienLe
25 posts
10 Sep 2018 4:51PM
Thumbs Up

A quick note about the armband picture above : if the pocket opens slightly, the armband is set much too tight.

The 299 EUR price includes EU VAT (21%) which should be removed when sold outside the EU : 247 EUR.

There is a "long distance option"; previously requested by a mountain trail runner/biker.

With 8GB and no maps, you can log ~180 continuous days at 10Hz :
www.google.be/search?q=%288+gibibytes+%2F+%2852*10%29+bytes%29+seconds+to+days

boardsurfr
WA, 727 posts
13 Sep 2018 8:04AM
Thumbs Up

Which GNSS systems are you using at 10 Hz?

JulienLe
25 posts
14 Sep 2018 3:16AM
Thumbs Up

Hello,

GPS+GLONASS+(Galileo or Beidou)

boardsurfr
WA, 727 posts
14 Sep 2018 7:51PM
Thumbs Up

No issues with dropped points when recording at 10 Hz? Asking because the u-blox PDF about firmware v. 3 states that 3 Hz is the max for 3 GNSS systems.

JulienLe
25 posts
14 Sep 2018 9:16PM
Thumbs Up

This only applies when running from external flash memory.

BSN101
WA, 1485 posts
27 Dec 2018 4:42PM
Thumbs Up

Any Aust sailors able to review this yet?

decrepit
WA, 8932 posts
27 Dec 2018 5:17PM
Thumbs Up

Juliene was hoping to get a few here by Xmas, but I haven't heard anything yet.

JulienLe
25 posts
27 Dec 2018 6:49PM
Thumbs Up

All Australians preferred to wait the new revision and as such, only one has shipped yet and four more will ship this week. I'm about 17 done over 30 in the backlog and it should finally be cleared January the 6th. Then I'll already have more than 15 new to start.

Here's a non-exhaustive list of the new revision changes :

- Improved USB (including MacOS handling)
- Faster permanent memory
- Improved display (delayed)
- Improved logger
- Averages over 1s/2s/10s now computed from the full 10Hz
- Added space vehicles logging
- Return of the "Satellites" information page
- Improved overall battery life
- Massively improved battery life when asleep
- Improved antennas (delayed)
- Improved GNSS sensitivity
- Improved radio consumption
- Improved startup time
- Changed overall fixture (delayed)
- Improved armband
- Tougher armband silicone pocket (delayed)
- Changed bike attachment
- Improved fade to / return from sleep
- Improved USB dust plugs (delayed)
- Improved inner packaging (delayed)

Delayed means it's now done but took much longer than expected.

BSN101
WA, 1485 posts
27 Dec 2018 11:50PM
Thumbs Up

Thanks for the update Julien. After the repairs & broken bands & dismantling of the 'other' common GPS watch I'm watching this space.
The upgrades look great too. Cheers Dave

mikey100
QLD, 551 posts
28 Dec 2018 8:29AM
Thumbs Up

This unit could hopefully be a game changer.

JulienLe
25 posts
28 Dec 2018 7:59AM
Thumbs Up

And some nice things are coming in the background. It's nice to see so much interest from competition organisers themselves. Thank you all.



Subscribe
Reply

Forums > Windsurfing   Gps and Speed talk


"Motion aqua GPS from Belgium - seems to be interesting or?" started by plettil