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Open Ocean Speed Record

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Created by Roo 2 months ago, 13 Jan 2019
Roo
634 posts
13 Jan 2019 1:28AM
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Just going over the results for the Ledge Point to Lancelin Classic. Bloody impressive speeds for the top sailors. Matteo Iachino, a former PWA Slalom Champion, averaged 63.5 km (34.29 knots) for the race distance finishing in 24 mins 13 secs.......wow. Second Place Patrick Diethelm averaged 62.4 km (33.7 knots) for 24 min 37 secs.

Imagine what they would have done for 1 hour, considering the best 1 hr on GPSSS/GPSTC is 30 knots...bye bye record. Impressive speeds all round, even the sixth place finisher averaged over 30 knots!

All this was done in open ocean conditions with swell and chop and not on flat water like Lake George. Congrats to all that took part and completed the distance!

Carindale
QLD, 292 posts
13 Jan 2019 7:27AM
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Good observation, however concentrating for 24min and making no errors is a bit different to lasting a whole 60minutes and If B-rad's record in 2013 was so easy why has it not been beaten?

Kwibai
33 posts
13 Jan 2019 6:16AM
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Great speeds. How have they been measured? GPS data over distance travelled? If so truly impressive average speeds, even if both Matteo and Patrick are with the absolute fastest of the World. Would be cool to see the data as even by their standards that given average is close to insanity on an open sea over 25 kilometres including jibes. I am explicitly not meaning to say I don't believe they can't do it, just keen to learn more how this speed has been calculated. How much wind did they have during this years'race and which sailsizes and boards were they using? If true this shows how far our sport has come and regardless of the average speed they have set I take my hat of for their effort as it will have been bloody damn fast for sure.

Spotty
VIC, 1251 posts
13 Jan 2019 11:12AM
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The course on the event website(competitors...) has the way points of all the marks. Whether they were representative on the day is questionable, but you could get a rough idea of the race distance from that for a start.

Course distance raced by each competitor can vary greatly as well, probably less though at the top of fleet where they are likely to take shortest route between marks.

Only accurate way to measure such is have individuals GPS data, impressive averages none the less.

Just so you have an idea my peak data of my GT31 screen was just under 31kn pk and 10sec 30. I went with my 8.7, 137L, 46 fin as my next size down was a 7.1 and lack pull off the wind in pre start warm up. BlueChipTiming race pace was 45kph.

I got cooked/fatigued and dropped/rested 6 of the 7 gybes and still finished 31st overall. Sailing an hour deep on rolling swell with chop has far more fatigue involved especially if your setup is not spot on. Any small setup mistake gets amplified over time. And comes down to fitness etc & how well you can make up for it and for how long.

7.8 would of been the right choice, and was used by Mateo and a few others at the top of fleet, think he was on a board around 130L as well?

Will write more/pics and post track later, was a big night for some at the Tav .

Roo
634 posts
13 Jan 2019 8:37AM
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Had a look at the map Spotty mentioned. The distance they calculated was 25km for the race. Seems to tally with some of the competitors that have posted tracks on KA72.com Hopefully we can get one of the top 5 windsurfers to post their tracks, I think Jesper and Daniel post in GPSTC sometimes.

Aus501 Boz
WA, 20 posts
13 Jan 2019 10:07AM
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Roo on my GPS it was 22.9 k's and I know I didn't take the shortest route, so would suggest it probably is more in the 22k range for the top guys, I filtered the track from the time I started 2pm and finished 2:39

gpsteamchallenge.com.au/sailor_session/show?date=2019-01-12&team=12

Roo
634 posts
13 Jan 2019 10:16AM
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Thanks Boz, adjusted the length to 23km for the course so Matteo would have averaged around 31 knots! Still bloody fast for open water.

Aus501 Boz
WA, 20 posts
13 Jan 2019 10:21AM
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No doubt these guys are travelling at a rate of knots in really messy conditions, trying to maintain this sort of speed with gybes etc my hats off to them, I'm sure if they went for an hour in flat conditions they would smash the 30 knots, not taking anything away from people who have done this as it is difficult to do but these guys are a level above and rightly so as it is there profession.

Kwibai
33 posts
13 Jan 2019 12:29PM
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Thanks for the info guys! My gut feeling tells me even Matteo, Antoine or Patrik will have a very hard time getting over 32 knots (deducting current) on any downwinder over an hour. Behind a bank at for instance La Franqui it's totally possible. The current WSSRC NM mile record has been set by a GPS rider beating Antoine one on one. He is an amateur. The community by now is large and strong enough to function as benchmark. I also feel the current number one seeds in any discipline deserve recognition as insane speeds are being shown.

Again, not to take of anything of Matteo or Patriks speeds. Just Curious how fast they truly went and where the true boundaries are for a downwinder and fixed course 1 hour.

Kwibai
33 posts
13 Jan 2019 12:36PM
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And how cool would it be to be proven wrong. Can't wait to see Matteo, Patrik or Antoine going for it, share their GPS data and have a drone following them. No doubt the top PWA would beat the GPS top seeds on open water. Behind a bank it would be another story.

An estimated guess...
The best option for open water might be a20-25 knot breeze maximim, around 115 litre board and 7.8 as the waterstate would allow for high averages. Behind a bank Possibly 30 gusting 35.

Let the games begin I'd say based on Roo's initial observation. Great Fun!!!

yoyo
WA, 1592 posts
13 Jan 2019 12:54PM
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Kwibai said..
.... Can't wait to see Matteo, Patrik or Antoine going for it, share their GPS data and have a drone following them. No doubt the top PWA would beat the GPS top seeds on open water. Behind a bank it would be another story.



Check out the footage from 2.09 on....

Kwibai
33 posts
13 Jan 2019 1:10PM
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yoyo said..
Kwibai said..
.... Can't wait to see Matteo, Patrik or Antoine going for it, share their GPS data and have a drone following them. No doubt the top PWA would beat the GPS top seeds on open water. Behind a bank it would be another story.



Check out the footage from 2.09 on....



Thanks so much for this. Great footage and behind the scene info. 1 hour, gps data sent to Andrew Daff, ideally in combination with witnesses and footage to prove and we know?? Bets are on!

So curious who will take up the challenge and have the stamina to go full throttle downwind for an hour. Will be interesting to see where this takes us and how cool would it be if PWA riders share their data like is being done in other sports. We miss that promotional aspect in PWA slalom.

Aus501 Boz
WA, 20 posts
13 Jan 2019 1:24PM
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Nice video, one of the things I noticed when racing with the top guys here at LOC or Cerventes is just the fitness levels they have and the ability to carry the larger sails and stay totally in control in gnarly conditions, not to say they don't make mistakes but an exception rather than like me a norm Would they be able to achieve a 30+ hour in ocean down winder, well so many factors come into play but watching these guys in action wouldn't put it past them.

When most of us amateurs go for the hour we chase the flattest of conditions we can, would be interesting to have them do like for like and pit the top GPS guys against them, would there be a big difference probably not but I still wouldn't bet the house on it. As for most of us mere mortal weekend warriors we really don't stand a chance

Kwibai
33 posts
13 Jan 2019 1:35PM
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Current records 1 hour. Still a long way to go, even for PWA monsters. Proof is with the pudding. Come on guys, share data and beat the " amateurs". And again, I say that with all due respect for the massive skills. I saw a post from Ricardo on Facebook. Possibly that says it all. If we want our sport to grow we have to make it more compelling. Look at any other sport and you'll know data is what makes a sport thrive as it adds to the history and imagination. We Miss out on that aspect and wonder why the youth stays away. (I know, off topic but just trying to add context to Roo's well respected first post.)

www.gps-speedsurfing.com/default.aspx?mnu=rankings&Year=-&Tab=0&Gender=0&WeightClass=0&AgeClass=0&SpeedType=4

Ian K
NSW, 2778 posts
13 Jan 2019 5:22PM
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It's all about the numbers. We're not too sure how fast the best windsurfers are in open ocean.

Kwibai
33 posts
13 Jan 2019 3:00PM
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YeaH!!! Last one and then I shut up my mouth for at least a month.

I hope some PWA riders are reading this at their training facility in Tenrife.

You all struggle to earn some money and do what you dream off. Here is an old bastard speaking that loves our sport and would love to see more youngsters entering. Your competition is based on fear. Fear of sharing data, fear of sharing content with your peers. That's plain stupid if you want to make a living.

Use your time well and share. If you want to be useful to sponsors and get attention: share!

Give youngsters a view on what they should strive for at their homespot so they know. Teach them how to approach a mark and show speeds, share speeds and think about making PWA races more compelling. We know Antoine won the last couple of decades and before that Bjorn and before that Robby. Where did it take us and our sport? Our sport is stuck and you're not long away from becoming obselete and overtaken by foiling just because there is still some money to be earned in that.

Windsurfing is a gimmick to most in the world. In the meantime, just have a look at the the worldsurfleague
and learn. Promote yourself as a group AND as individuals by creating an image that is visible. And all starts with the absurd speed we're travelling over the ocean with pure windpower. You've got such a great tool in your hands promotionally and you are doing nothing with it.

Embrace GPS, not just to secretly learn for yourself as you now all do, but share this information. Share gybing speed. Be creative. Set up informal races that you share. The same guys will win while others can learn. And in the end you all make more money. You are calling yourselves "professionals" but one of the legends of our sport is crying out in the open he can't earn a decent buck and is even blamed for having the guts to do so. Wave is the portal you will be entering soon if you guys don't wake up.

Just for your information. Thirty years ago I was faster than some and now I am still faster than some, but slower than others that weren't even born back then. We need this. We need youngsters. Be open. Share. The best will still win but all will earn more AND have more fun on the water together.

Together is the magic words. We're windsurfers. Share.

mikey100
QLD, 554 posts
13 Jan 2019 9:32PM
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Carindale said..
Good observation, however concentrating for 24min and making no errors is a bit different to lasting a whole 60minutes and If B-rad's record in 2013 was so easy why has it not been beaten?


Agree...

Spotty
VIC, 1251 posts
13 Jan 2019 11:23PM
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For those who may not of seen live helli footage ... start @ 5:30,.......

Dan Engdahl starting like a Boss and sending it seaworthy off the inside break grabbing some air,

Mateo & Patrik side by side and hammer down at 14:00, footage looks flatter than it was.

www.facebook.com/LancelinOceanClassicWA/videos/2342413989365019/?t=0

AUS1111
WA, 3277 posts
13 Jan 2019 10:22PM
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Dunno about those speeds. They have me down for 48.5kmh, which is just over 26 knots. Wasn't wearing a GPS but I would I have been lucky to even peak at 26 knots...

yoyo
WA, 1592 posts
14 Jan 2019 9:19AM
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I note the winner of the kite event did it several minutes faster than Matteo. 21 something with an average of 71 km/h. I couldn't do that as a max bearing away in a good gust on flat water at Lipton's yesterday.
Watching the video the kite foilers made it look smooth. We read on the posts and hear it on the beach from our foiling friends just how smooth the Foil ride is. We read how rough the LOC was. Did no one try it on a windsurf foil?

AUS1111
WA, 3277 posts
14 Jan 2019 9:26AM
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The kiters started on the water and also sailed a shorter course, so in reality the top speeds look pretty close.

Ian K
NSW, 2778 posts
14 Jan 2019 1:32PM
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AUS1111 said..
The kiters started on the water and also sailed a shorter course, so in reality the top speeds look pretty close.


Clutching at straws Aus1111. Since day one windsurfers were able to be smug in being on board the fastest sailing craft on the water. (Excluding specialised craft sponsored by large banks or communication companies). Kite boards snuck ahead at Luderitz, but that's just a ditch. And now Kite foils! In the open ocean they are a sight to behold from behind in what little wake they leave. And they go the same speed in any direction. I'd guess they'd go Lancelin to Ledge in not much more time. A pity really.

Subsonic
WA, 1517 posts
14 Jan 2019 11:42AM
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Ian K said..

AUS1111 said..
The kiters started on the water and also sailed a shorter course, so in reality the top speeds look pretty close.



Clutching at straws Aus1111. Since day one windsurfers were able to be smug in being on board the fastest sailing craft on the water. (Excluding specialised craft sponsored by large banks or communication companies). Kite boards snuck ahead at Luderitz, but that's just a ditch. And now Kite foils! In the open ocean they are a sight to behold from behind in what little wake they leave. And they go the same speed in any direction. I'd guess they'd go Lancelin to Ledge in not much more time. A pity really.


The kite foilers downwind speeds are truly phenomenal, they well and truly have it over us in open ocean conditions. Their upwind speeds are phenomenal as well, but they are nowhere near their downwind speeds.

I wouldn't want to be attached to a foil board at the speeds i've seen them do downwind, if you dug the foil in the wrong way you'd literally leave your feet behind attached to the board.

Adriano
10355 posts
14 Jan 2019 1:52PM
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Roo said..
Just going over the results for the Ledge Point to Lancelin Classic. Bloody impressive speeds for the top sailors. Matteo Iachino, a former PWA Slalom Champion, averaged 63.5 km (34.29 knots) for the race distance finishing in 24 mins 13 secs.......wow. Second Place Patrick Diethelm averaged 62.4 km (33.7 knots) for 24 min 37 secs.


I doubt it....is that your own calculation based on the stated race distance / time or their tracks?

(having held the 12th fastest NM speed in the world at 38.86knots for a few months - I wonder if the average speed was probably nowhere near 34knots).

Still, amazing times for the leaders.

Adriano
10355 posts
14 Jan 2019 2:00PM
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Carindale said..
Good observation, however concentrating for 24min and making no errors is a bit different to lasting a whole 60minutes and If B-rad's record in 2013 was so easy why has it not been beaten?


Yes however, when we do one-hours on flat water it's usually beam reaches. These guys are going broad so it's faster. I can regularly hit 35knots in open water but to maintain that for 25 minutes with several gybes and varying reaching angle is probably a stretch.

yoyo
WA, 1592 posts
14 Jan 2019 2:49PM
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Don't forget the winning guys (foil kite and windsurf) were/are world champions. So I guess we can safely say that's about as fast as you can go in those conditions. Comparing to what "we" (competent amateurs) can do is unrealistic. World champions are not just the best but exceptional. Who amonst us could get close to running 9.6 or polevaulting 6.10m or win a point off Federer? They operate at a different level. I'm kind of glad they have little interest in gps. I think it would just discourage the rest. It is bad enough with those Dutch guys doing 50+ regularly!

John340
QLD, 1902 posts
14 Jan 2019 6:14PM
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Adriano said..


Carindale said..
Good observation, however concentrating for 24min and making no errors is a bit different to lasting a whole 60minutes and If B-rad's record in 2013 was so easy why has it not been beaten?




Yes however, when we do one-hours on flat water it's usually beam reaches. These guys are going broad so it's faster. I can regularly hit 35knots in open water but to maintain that for 25 minutes with several gybes and varying reaching angle is probably a stretch.



3 km long legs and only 7 gybes in 22 kms also helps.

Brad's track from his world record is here:
www.ka72.com/Track/t/210848

Brad did his 30kt hour on a beam reach with around 1.2km legs including approx 30 gybes. He achieved a 27.9kt apha during the hour. On the same day, after he recorded his hour, he then went after 2sec, 5 x 10 sec and nautical mile recording 47.9kts, 45kts and 38.8kts respectively.

ClausF
22 posts
14 Jan 2019 6:25PM
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yoyo said..
Don't forget the winning guys (foil kite and windsurf) were/are world champions. So I guess we can safely say that's about as fast as you can go in those conditions. Comparing to what "we" (competent amateurs) can do is unrealistic. World champions are not just the best but exceptional. Who amonst us could get close to running 9.6 or polevaulting 6.10m or win a point off Federer? They operate at a different level. I'm kind of glad they have little interest in gps. I think it would just discourage the rest. It is bad enough with those Dutch guys doing 50+ regularly!



I have done some freeracing with some very good kitefoilers (which by the way often are ex windsurfers) and there is not any doubt that they are much faster upwind as they can foil at speeds and close angles (VMG) that we, as windsurfers, can only dream about. On a beam reach they are more or less as fast as formula windsurfers so if I'm well powered up on slalom gear I will often smoke them. But if the waterstate is very choppy or the wind is gusty, as it is often in Europe, they will be more competitive on a long beam reach. Downwind is more or less the same history.

I don't see why pro windsurfers should not post their GPS-tracks, they are the masters and they use more or less the same equipment we can buy in the shops, isn't that interesting? If you buy a Ferrari you already know that you will probably never be able to drive it to its limits as a F1 driver would, but is that a real problem? Hang loose and enjoy!

Adriano
10355 posts
14 Jan 2019 6:35PM
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John340 said..




Adriano said..






Carindale said..
Good observation, however concentrating for 24min and making no errors is a bit different to lasting a whole 60minutes and If B-rad's record in 2013 was so easy why has it not been beaten?








Yes however, when we do one-hours on flat water it's usually beam reaches. These guys are going broad so it's faster. I can regularly hit 35knots in open water but to maintain that for 25 minutes with several gybes and varying reaching angle is probably a stretch.


3 km long legs and only 7 gybes in 22 kms also helps.

Brad's track from his world record is here:
www.ka72.com/Track/t/210848

Brad did his 30kt hour on a beam reach with around 1.2km legs including approx 30 gybes. He achieved a 27.9kt apha during the hour. On the same day, after he recorded his hour, he then went after 2sec, 5 x 10 sec and nautical mile recording 47.9kts, 45kts and 38.8kts respectively.

Yep. A big day for a big man! Matched him on the NM that year!

kato
VIC, 2409 posts
14 Jan 2019 9:44PM
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Select to expand quote
John340 said..

3 km long legs and only 7 gybes in 22 kms also helps.

Brad's track from his world record is here:
www.ka72.com/Track/t/210848

Brad did his 30kt hour on a beam reach with around 1.2km legs including approx 30 gybes. He achieved a 27.9kt apha during the hour. On the same day, after he recorded his hour, he then went after 2sec, 5 x 10 sec and nautical mile recording 47.9kts, 45kts and 38.8kts respectively.


Might be time for someone to have a crack at this again? Brad

Kwibai
33 posts
14 Jan 2019 6:54PM
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yoyo said..
Don't forget the winning guys (foil kite and windsurf) were/are world champions. So I guess we can safely say that's about as fast as you can go in those conditions. Comparing to what "we" (competent amateurs) can do is unrealistic. World champions are not just the best but exceptional. Who amonst us could get close to running 9.6 or polevaulting 6.10m or win a point off Federer? They operate at a different level. I'm kind of glad they have little interest in gps. I think it would just discourage the rest. It is bad enough with those Dutch guys doing 50+ regularly!









Yoyo, your post made me realize I need to explain more and not keep my mouth shut for at least a month as promised to myself and others whom I am bothering and probably annoying with my posts, but I can''t keep still because of the love for our sport. What Roo noted and shared is very important for our sport, so I am sure and I will explain why and also explain why I respectfully but totally disagree with your line of thinking and conclusion and I hope you are open to my arguments. I need a longer explanation for this.

To get your atrtention: I am 54, an old fart that quit for a couple of years and I dare say I could beat Antoine at given days topspeed wise. Mostly he would kick my arse but sometimes I could kick his arse or go a little faster. Now how good is that for a reality check as an inspired amateur rider and with me there are more GPS riders capable of doing so. Windsurfing is different from tennis in that respect. It IS very important to share data and really know how fast the guys went, so here I go after this bold statement... I will take a detour though.

First of all internal PWA and market talks have been about replacing slalom for foiling lately. Obviously this is cost related and for the PWA managers (they think) funding/income related. I saw some open discussions between industry leaders and the PWA and I do not need to say more as the ones who also saw the open discussion will know what I am saying here..

Just like before with windsurfing at the olpympics they want to kill the mother in favour of the child. They should do both! Simple as that and to achieve that, the industry and marketing managers of the PWA should rethink or better, the industry should overthrow the PWA. They are doing a lousy job and that for years. Put Philip Bru in charge and the sport will thrive. Just another daring example. I want people to think and I have the age to be rightfully sad if the sport I love is being led by people who do not seem to care for the sport itself in the first place.

The professional aspect of our sport is dying and Ricardo Campello made a clear point. Had he be Conor McGregor, he had been applauded for his non confirmistic and daredevil aproach to life. In the now he is being laughed at in the open by some as they say he should just work for his money.

The same goes for slalomriders not long from now and even now. Why? First and foremost because EXTREMELY stupid decisions are being made, like for instance organize a World Cup in Spain with **** for wind and no coverage while at the same time all Pro riders could be at the Defi in forty to fifty knots windspeed, mingle with thousands of windsurfing lovers and pull the sport to a higher level. In person I plead for quitting the PWA in total and create a hostile take-over by begging to the right persons by the industry leaders, but I think you understood that.

Now for showing data. Yes...it is important the youngsters show the speeds they all measure with GPS. Back when the World Cup at Karpathos was being held a then nobody Dirk Jan Knol, a GPS rider, beat Antoine's topspeed on the fixed couirse, I was aproached by a top world cup rider who admitted he didn't dare to participate as he had said to all of his friends that the GPS speeds posted on www.gps-speedsurfing.com couldn't be true. After all, they were the pro's.

Fact of the matter is that many can go fast. Very few however can run a proper open ocean slalomcourse and go bezerk at 30-32 knots averages with the occasional 40 peaks if conditions allow or at flatter venues go 38 average with an occasional and sensational 43 knot peak on 115 litre boards and 7.7 sails. Fact of the matter however is that also GPS riders can set that speed. It's more important to use the technology available and get the funding in for drones and live coverage , including showing gybing speeds and down the wind speeds than anything else.

A lot of years ago I already talked about having the need for measuring topspeed and potentially even think about granting bonus points for speeds set at the back part of the couse and for instance the highest alpha during a PWA race. I am sure many, many more would watch AND learn. If you want outside sponsors to be attracted you should make the sport appealing and make people outside of the sport understand why it is so much fun to windsurf.

In the past windsurfing was a fun and a feel good sport, just like surfing still is. Now we're just old farts on a boat and no one really understands just how technical and thrilling windsurfing really is. If the youth knew and understand more and better just how insanely good this sport really feels we would have a thriving sport.

I participated myself in a GPS concept last year and never had as much fun in windsurfing. I was racing with and helping out amateurs like me. We sailed distance, hour, measured gybing speeds, topspeeds, 500 metere and five times ten seconds, the standard in GPS surfing. Combine that with PWA slalom and long distances organize races like the Defi over the world, foil when light and race when strong and you got a killer proposition marketing wise.

I'd love to sit down with Pilip Bru and others to talk about the true potential our sport has. I vote for a restart and also vote for starting out to show all data available.

Heck, I didnt even know who won the Lancelin. Why? Because it's only a few numbers: 1,2,3 etcetera. Fun to participate and great for the grasroot movement, just like the Defi, but events like the Lancelin and the Defi could be the future of our sport and I see NO REASON WHATSOEVER why the top windsurfers in the world wouldn't earn just as much as the top surfers in the world. It's all just a matter of focus, understanding why people are watching and recognizing the differences between both sports. All starts with the community itself, then with people on the beach and in this day and age, people on the internet. I didnt watch any PWA event last year and followed all worldsurfleague events. Why, because they understand their sport. We're lucky to have dedicated guys like Ben Profit, just like with Philip Bru I take my hat of for him. Without him I wouldn't even have watched the youtube footage available. It's because of this and nothing else that our sport is slowly dying. We live the best sport on earth but can't manage to sell it to the world. If we would large sponsors would step in, just like they do in the Defi.

The gear has never been as easy as it is right now and there are far more lakes and patches of water on the earth then there are waves in the world. Still surfing is thriving and windsurfing dying. It just doesn't make sense apart from the fact the sport is too expensive for many. But....if you rethink and think about what Ricardo Campello truly says then you do understand that we need professionals and then all of the sudden, if you hink the right way with a very limited budget you can have ****loads of fun, just like in surfing.

All starts with sharing and overcoming the fear for competition in all aspects of this beautiful sport. We need to rethink and use technology for the good. Starting out with sharing GPS data is a no brainer and should be mandatory within the PWA as a start. Again they are plain stupid not using this tool they have got in their hands as many would check up on the site and site traffic, also using facebook would go through the roof. As a spin off youngsters would learn. Another and last example: BMX. During their world cups a whole village is being built and there are a gazillion ages competing. From the very young to the pro's. Sometimes there are thousands of competitors at one event.

Think Lancelin and think Defi and/or Lancelin. Forget about going to Spain and open up! PWA riders should go to the Lancelin and Defi as part of the PWA tour. Who the beep cares that the Defi is not a normal slalomcourse. I am sure any PWA rider would say this race was the best he entered in the whole year. Come on...these are no brainers.

Sorry for my emotional plead but I feel someone needs to speak out or there will be no more youth left to race in professional races as they simply cannot afford it or have the luxury to be raised in a rich family. And it's us ourselves who are doing this by not sharing. Sharing and uniting is the only way to heal this sport from the lackluster mode it's getting in.

Do you, the industry world, realize just how plain stupid we all are? Afraid for the other brand to steal away a customer. I see it happening and hear about it on a daily base.

Tear the PWA apart and leave them alone or force them to co-operate with organizers of the Lancelin, Defi and many more events that will rise and again, just like is happening for yours in the worldsurfleague become the legendary races that they already are!

Rethink guys and girls. Rethink. An old fart is speaking here from the whole of his heart and nearly shouting out loud we should learn, look forward and leave the ****ty past: the PWA behind. They messed up. Period!



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Forums > Windsurfing   Gps and Speed talk


"Open Ocean Speed Record" started by Roo