Forums > Windsurfing   Gps and Speed talk

tips to improve my speed ???

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Created by seanhogan > 9 months ago, 7 Jun 2013
seanhogan
2811 posts
7 Jun 2013 10:12AM
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93 kg/1.82m

board 115 l Patrik slalom

sails 7.2 ack point seven (not tried yet : arriving this week) + 6.0 hot sails Gps

fin F4 approx 35 cm...


I had been stuck at 34/35 knts for ages, last week with winds around 25/30 knts I finally managed to improve my PB @37 with the 6.0.

But what strikes me is I always seem to reach PB's in the chop instead of flat water.
I must be doing something wrong !!

I have read about "slingshot" technique, could someone elaborate for me ? (in plain english or with one of Barn's drawings... cause my english isn't that good)

A smaller board and fin would maybe help ? I could use my son's manta 98 with a 33cm fin.

Do I need to "crouch " down a little to lower my gravity center ?

Thanks in advance

Stuthepirate
WA, 3323 posts
7 Jun 2013 1:24PM
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seanhogan said..

A smaller board and fin would maybe help ? I could use my son's manta 98 with a 33cm fin.



Smaller Board, Smaller fin. In flat water you should be looking at a fin in the 20's
An adjustable out-haul will help you upwind with what you lose with the smaller fin.

I'm no expert but looking at the guys in my GPS team that's what they've got.

hardie
WA, 3925 posts
7 Jun 2013 3:23PM
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seanhogan said..




I have read about "slingshot" technique, could someone elaborate for me ? (in plain english or with one of Barn's drawings... cause my english isn't that good)




If you'd asked for an explanation in Chinese I would've been more comfortable, but here goes in English.

Slingshot refers to the rapid acceleration effect you achieve when going from sailing roughly square (75 degrees slightly upwind to 105 degrees slightly downwind) to the wind; then turning to the optimal broadest angle off the wind (125 to 145 degrees off the wind). This is often the case with certain speed course which lend themsleves to a stretch of water which has ideal conditions off the wind. Have a look at the Luderitz videos, and wtch AA's 52kt run) The course starts out square to upwind , then its like they turn a corner which is off the wind, and its like a slignshot occurs with rapid acceleration. The slingshot also works most efectively when the flattest water is at the broadest angle to the wind 125/145 degrees. Some famous speedrun sandbars are aligned this way. The other effect is the more speed you take into the run b4 you hit the sligshot area, the faster the sligshot will accerlartae you to. Jeez I shoulda sed it in Chinese

hardie
WA, 3925 posts
7 Jun 2013 3:33PM
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Have a look at the 1m10sec mark to about 1 min 18sec, thats when the sligshot is shown



Milsy
NSW, 1176 posts
7 Jun 2013 7:08PM
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hey,, 37kts on a 115l in some chop, thats really good man, forget seeking advice, you should be giving some out!!, say were going crosswind, board lifting up, back leg engaged, faster, faster, i feel the board really lifting up, in a sorta acclerated state, then i turn off the wind, yeah, i acclerate, plus less sail drag, so speed increases,, but ive been wondering, should you keep the board crosswind, and just turn it off the wind enough to keep it really powered up, and just keep turning off wind gradually, maintaining heaps of back leg pressure, keeping the board real powered up, or should you built up speed crosswind, and really load up the board with down ward force and just turn off the wind hard, a less gradually bear off, aiming for that sling shot feel.....im pretty light, 70kg, and have wondered due to my lack of wieght, that probably means less potential in a slingshot,,,,hey, thanks for ya time

seanhogan
2811 posts
7 Jun 2013 5:18PM
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thanks for that Milsy, but I certainly would not be able to give any advice, I am more of an instinct sailor, I'm hopeless at tuning my gear and technical stuff gets me lost !!

I don't find that I go much faster full downwind than on a good powered up crosswind. I will have to try engaging more downwind at full speed. should be interesting if I survive !!

Guys at the beach tell me to give more "lift" to the board... I nod and walk away wondering if I should pour lemon soda on the Patrik or what.....



lao shi
WA, 1171 posts
7 Jun 2013 7:13PM
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www.windsurfermag.com/magazine/windsurf-speed-sailing-slingshot/?params=MjR8Mjg0fDA=
Why say it in Chinese when someone else has already said it?
Doesn't mean you will understand it though!
Getting the board to feel like it is about to flip (right up on the fin) and then bearing away in the dark patch of the gust in the flattest water is the ideal.

Hard bear away gives good acceleration but you can quickly lose speed. A more gradual bear away keeping some load on the fin wil be better for 10sec speed.
Weight jacket definitely makes a difference for lighter sailors.

Spotty
1104 posts
8 Jun 2013 7:51AM
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lao shi said..

www.windsurfermag.com/magazine/windsurf-speed-sailing-slingshot/?params=MjR8Mjg0fDA=
Why say it in Chinese when someone else has already said it?
Doesn't mean you will understand it though!
Getting the board to feel like it is about to flip (right up on the fin) and then bearing away in the dark patch of the gust in the flattest water is the ideal.

Hard bear away gives good acceleration but you can quickly lose speed. A more gradual bear away keeping some load on the fin wil be better for 10sec speed.
Weight jacket definitely makes a difference for lighter sailors.


Agree with Lao and others^, 37 on a 115 is good keep it up, try it on a 104 quad for some extra encouragement / development

Depending on how good a smaller fin is, around the 23cm -28cm size will help. Learn to sail underfinned across the wind finding out how much you can load it up before it lets go. Then as ou bear away off the wind and the pressure on the fin becomes less learn to transfer pressure back to it, to help adjust the board trim to get it to fly off the tail / fin. Techique/harness line length and fin drag I would consider to be most inhibiting factor for someone wanting to sail fast. .

Move your mast foot back if the water is not releasing at least halfway between the front and rear straps. Bag out your sail, in the extreme you almost want it still pulling your arms out of their sockets when going deep off the wind as you load up gradually for the so called slingshot.

Once sending it downwind the pressure or pulling forward should ease a little as you accelerate up to max speed. If you feel under powered at this point you may need to rig bigger.

Does not matter what you ride, learn to ride what ever setup you have fast through developing good technique and adjusting as such to accommodate your kits short comings in the speed department. With 12'6" SUP's able to do well over 30 and wave boards 40 with wave fins in them on flat water, technique, experience is a factor, enjoy the challenge that is windsurfing it will last oneself a lifetime.


Ps: I will try get Barn to extend on is excellent Holy Hydronamic Lift pics and do one for the Slingshot

seanhogan
2811 posts
8 Jun 2013 9:08AM
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thanks a lot "? speed gurus" , very interesting read, lots of advice to take to the water.

Will give it a go one by one to see which technique/setup makes what difference.

Many thanks again

can't wait for Barn's pic of the "amazing lift"

barn
WA, 2898 posts
9 Jun 2013 6:13PM
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Don't know why all speed sailors don't use the slinghot method. I ran a simulation and it'll add knots you your two second max..




Edit: Oh wow red thumbs in less than 5 minutes! You guys..


seanhogan
2811 posts
9 Jun 2013 6:25PM
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barn, you're a legend !!!! why the red thumbs ? sooooo funny, and I asked for it !!!

barn
WA, 2898 posts
9 Jun 2013 6:29PM
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Haha no problem Sean!

Speed sailing: Serious Business!

Spotty
1104 posts
9 Jun 2013 8:02PM
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Brilliant!!! Superbly and simply entertaining again Barn, . Attention to detail with the double hook harness

stroppo
WA, 426 posts
9 Jun 2013 8:13PM
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Barn thats some funny sh#t lovit!!!!

mr love
VIC, 1568 posts
9 Jun 2013 11:12PM
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That is funny s..t. Double hook harness, looks familiar, I never realised how much AMAC looks like the Wile.E Coyote

TASSIEROCKS
TAS, 1631 posts
10 Jun 2013 9:31AM
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Barn LOVE IT thats the best how to video ever

sboardcrazy
NSW, 6161 posts
10 Jun 2013 12:50PM
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barn said..

Don't know why all speed sailors don't use the slinghot method. I ran a simulation and it'll add knots you your two second max..




Edit: Oh wow red thumbs in less than 5 minutes! You guys..




I'm going to try that.. The only way I'll break 30kts..

barn
WA, 2898 posts
10 Jun 2013 4:04PM
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I'm glad the double harness hook was spotted! Wile E. also has a Gath helmet he borrowed of Kato. The green sailboard is all A.C.M.E, same build has the famous wingsuit..

Guaranteed for the life of the user!

Bonominator
VIC, 5477 posts
10 Jun 2013 6:25PM
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barn said..

I'm glad the double harness hook was spotted! Wile E. also has a Gath helmet he borrowed of Kato. The green sailboard is all A.C.M.E, same build has the famous wingsuit..

Guaranteed for the life of the user!

?rel=0


Batty.

No seriously, 37 on a largish slalom is great. From my experience, if it's choppy, you know, more than 15-20cm of rolling chop, then a small to medium slalom board will be faster than a speed board any day, especially if teamed with a smallish symmetrical fin, such as a KA 23 Symmy. Slalom boards simply eat up chop and ride better in these conditions. Maybe that's why you think you're going faster on a slalom board.

CJW
NSW, 1433 posts
10 Jun 2013 6:26PM
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Barn has graduated to gifs, I for one look forward to future shenanigans



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Forums > Windsurfing   Gps and Speed talk


"tips to improve my speed ???" started by seanhogan