weight jacket

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kato
kato
VIC
3530 posts
VIC, 3530 posts
22 Sep 2007 10:48pm
Just finished my new weight jacket.Base load 6 kg Max 10kg.Used an old wetsuit as the base glued on blue foam,then stiched and glued sail cloth to the vest. Total cost $60 time 40hrs.Hope it floats www.seabreeze.com.au/gallery/gallery.asp?imageid=6147
www.seabreeze.com.au/gallery/gallery.asp?imageid=6148
Modeled by my 9 yr old his total weight 30kg
TimB
TimB
WA
260 posts
WA, 260 posts
23 Sep 2007 11:08am
DON'T USE SOLID WEIGHTS SUCH AS DIVE WEIGHTS IN WEIGHT JACKETS.

Apart from being illegal for speed sailings etc it is also extremely dangerous to use solid weights. The best weight to use is water so that when you fall in it does not hold you down. Weight jackets with nuetral buoyancy i.e. water are allowed in some sailing classes and I think speed sailing.

If you use lead weights such as dive weights, when you fall in you are still held down by the weight so you either sink and drown if knocked out or use all your energy treading water and drown.

Best weight jacjet is a camel back water bottle. They fit several litres of water and you can keep yourself hydrated while sailing.
yoyo
yoyo
WA
1646 posts
WA, 1646 posts
23 Sep 2007 12:10pm
"..Apart from being illegal for speed sailings " ??????

Where do you get your info?

ALL the guys at the last Speed Sailing comp in Namibia were wearing lead and lots of it. Of course they were also required to have enough floatation so their vests were neutrally buoyant.

This is a speedsailing post. Speedsailors have been wearing weight vests for decades but they are not commonly used in the general windsurfing community so are few and far between. Kato was showing how he made his own.
kato
kato
VIC
3530 posts
VIC, 3530 posts
23 Sep 2007 10:53pm
As I,m only 74kg I find in gusty conditions it helps stablise my upper body.Use them if you want but,they do change your balance and wear out your arms quicker.As to illegal,never heard of it in 20yrs of sailing.Please tell me more Tim. Lead weight is great as its more compact than water,doesn,t leak or move around and easy to add or remove.Yes make sure it floats with you in it ,otherwise your just dumb fish food. Use them or not
decrepit
decrepit
WA
12884 posts
WA, 12884 posts
23 Sep 2007 10:37pm
At 70Kg I'm very tempted, but with all this talk of catapult injury not sure if I'm game!!!
JayBee
JayBee
NSW
714 posts
NSW, 714 posts
24 Sep 2007 10:18am
ISAF have a ruling on the leaglity of weight jackets:

THE RACING RULES OF SAILING for 2005–2008
WINDSURFING COMPETITION RULES
International Sailing Federation
International Windsurfing Association

43.1 Competitors shall not wear or carry clothing or equipment for the purpose of increasing their weight. However, a competitor
may wear a drinking container that shall have a capacity of at least one litre and weigh no more than 1.5 kilograms when full.


Of course I do not believe that anyone has agreed that we are bound by the ISAF rules, and I am not sure there are any class rules that can override this.
If I remember correctly this rule was brought about because of people injuring their backs carrying extra weight around the racecourse.
I would agree with TimB, lead weights should be a no-no. Anyone with a bad back would agree I am sure.

At a minimum the jacket shoud be neutrally buoyant itself (with the lead weights), so there is no increased safety issue.

Alternatively, spalsh out on some food, at 74Kg's you can afford to have a burger or two.

JB
mathew
mathew
QLD
2172 posts
QLD, 2172 posts
24 Sep 2007 12:14pm
The purpose of weight jackets is exactly what Kato said, otherwise there is no point to wearing them. In any case, the ruling is meant to apply so that any extra weight, has neutral buoyancy.

Water-based jackets are easy to make neutral (excluding the fact that the fresh-water used in the jackets, is more dense than sea water), you just need extra flotation to offset the lead.

Here is the ISA rules for 2007: www.speedsurfing.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=45&Itemid=66
They specifically state that any weight vest must be neutral - it says nothing of using lead (ie: you could use depleted uranium for the extra density vs smaller size), just that the specific density of the vest must be less than the sea-water.

As to the ISAF ruling, Alison Shreeve mentions them in the context of ISAF (www.aus911.com/index.php?id=11), so it appears to be unclear. Further reading indicates that total mass above the knee must be less than 9kg - which would include your wet wet-suite, etc.

JayBee, do you have a reference to the section 43.1?
frant
frant
VIC
1230 posts
VIC, 1230 posts
24 Sep 2007 1:00pm
quote:
Originally posted by mathew

The purpose of weight jackets is exactly what Kato said, otherwise there is no point to wearing them. In any case, the ruling is meant to apply so that any extra weight, has neutral buoyancy.

Water-based jackets are easy to make neutral (excluding the fact that the fresh-water used in the jackets, is more dense than sea water), you just need extra flotation to offset the lead.

Here is the ISA rules for 2007: www.speedsurfing.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=45&Itemid=66
They specifically state that any weight vest must be neutral - it says nothing of using lead (ie: you could use depleted uranium for the extra density vs smaller size), just that the specific density of the vest must be less than the sea-water.

As to the ISAF ruling, Alison Shreeve mentions them in the context of ISAF (www.aus911.com/index.php?id=11), so it appears to be unclear. Further reading indicates that total mass above the knee must be less than 9kg - which would include your wet wet-suite, etc.

JayBee, do you have a reference to the section 43.1?


OR VICE VERSA.

The WSSCR rules apply to speedsailing over the ISAF Racing Rules in principle as far as rules are applicable. The WSSCR rules appear to permit weight vests as long as they float, and long as the person wearing the vest floats. I think that the Darwin Awards could well apply to any speedsailor who thinks to wear ballast without additional bouyancy.
mathew
mathew
QLD
2172 posts
QLD, 2172 posts
24 Sep 2007 2:59pm
quote:
Originally posted by frant
OR VICE VERSA..



oops, yes density of salt water is higher...

I meant to say that salt water naturally provides more buoyancy than fresh water. Stupid brain.

I did try 9kg without extra buoyancy - very scary... removed it after the first short run.
sailquik
sailquik
VIC
6171 posts
VIC, 6171 posts
24 Sep 2007 4:53pm
Mat. Are you saying you put yourself forward for the Darwin Awards and then withdrew your nomination?

Well. While you are that frame of mind we better do a few Tandem speed runs next week!
whippingboy
whippingboy
WA
1104 posts
WA, 1104 posts
24 Sep 2007 3:10pm
I use a flotation vest with a camel back and money in the front.

$10 in 5 cent coins

Flotation helps when waterstarting sails with big luff pockets, and works well as an impact vest.
kato
kato
VIC
3530 posts
VIC, 3530 posts
24 Sep 2007 10:01pm
Hey decrepit,You start with just a few kgs and as the weight is at your shoulder height no danger to your neck and the solid lead might protect your shoulders.Spend a long time sailing with this before moving up in weight. All that foam also protects your ribs.

WhippingBoy got ta ask....why 5 cent coins....no pokies in WA?
decrepit
decrepit
WA
12884 posts
WA, 12884 posts
24 Sep 2007 8:23pm
quote:
Originally posted by kato

Hey decrepit,You start with just a few kgs and as the weight is at your shoulder height no danger to your neck -----



But if you hit head first, it's your neck that absorbs the kinetic energy of the lead!!!!
kato
kato
VIC
3530 posts
VIC, 3530 posts
24 Sep 2007 11:32pm
quote:
But if you hit head first, it's your neck that absorbs the kinetic energy of the lead!!!!


Distract your self before ya hit it and ya miss. It worked for beetlejuice and flying
sailquik
sailquik
VIC
6171 posts
VIC, 6171 posts
24 Sep 2007 11:43pm
quote:
Originally posted by sailquik

Originally posted by sailquik

Originally posted by decrepit

Originally posted by kato

Hey decrepit,You start with just a few kgs and as the weight is at your shoulder height no danger to your neck -----

But if you hit head first, it's your neck that absorbs the kinetic energy of the lead!!!!






The only thing that can be a worry is hitting your sail head first. If you hit the water it is not usually an issue. My neoprene vest has quite a lot of padding and it also is quite elastic for shock loads so it give a bit on impact.

Kato offers good advice though. If you want to try a weight vest, start with just a kilo or two and get your body and balance used to it. When you feel comfortable and fit, add a bit more weight. I am reluctant to use any weight early in the speed season until I have built up a bit of core fitness. As Kato says, it can be hard on the arms and grip, and the higher mass can put a bit more strain on an iffy back. Build up slowly!

By the way. I like lead better than water. It is much less bulky and a can be moulded to the body a bit better

decrepit
decrepit
WA
12884 posts
WA, 12884 posts
24 Sep 2007 9:55pm
It's hitting the rig head first that worries me, from the "breakneck speed" thread. Maybe I'll try 1/2 kilo and see how I go a bit further along my learning curve. My limiting factor at the moment is inexperience, once that's less of a problem may be the time to try added weight.
sailquik
sailquik
VIC
6171 posts
VIC, 6171 posts
25 Sep 2007 12:37am
Fair Enough!
yoyo
yoyo
WA
1646 posts
WA, 1646 posts
24 Sep 2007 11:52pm
".....My limiting factor at the moment is inexperience"

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

decrepit
decrepit
WA
12884 posts
WA, 12884 posts
25 Sep 2007 1:55pm
quote:
Originally posted by yoyo

".....My limiting factor at the moment is inexperience"

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????





inexperience speed sailing, I've only been doing it since hardy conned me into joining the team challenge. Up till then, (admittedly 20 years) I've only wave sailed, and just blasted around fairly square.
This going downwind in chop with camber sails is very new, and is taking me a while to get used to.
kato
kato
VIC
3530 posts
VIC, 3530 posts
29 Sep 2007 6:02pm
The jacket worked really well.Floats with 8 kg,possibly with 9 not with 10.But 10 was always going to be too much, just had the pockets already made up.
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