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AFS Wind95 foil F800 and F700 wings

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Created by Sandman1221 > 9 months ago, 27 Dec 2020
Sandman1221
1157 posts
27 Dec 2020 7:35AM
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Have had my AFS Wind 95 cm foil for almost two years now, got it with the F800 wing (1080 cm2) and it is great for lightwind, but also used it up to 23 knots, and it worked good but felt like I was barely in control sometimes when it was really gusty, made for some thrilling/heart racing flights! The shims I got from AFS were essential for light winds (8-10 knots), I for below 15 knots, 2 for 10 knots and below. And this was on a Goya Bolt 135, so not a foil board, but just what I wanted. Decided to get the F700 wing (770 cm2) in order to switch wings when the wind picked up, instead of rigging a smaller sail. And that worked good, but what I found out in the process is that the F700 wing made 18-22 a lot easier to foil. Now it makes sense, pushing a big wing like the F800 in 18+ was like foiling though molasses, while the F700 in 18+ felt like going though air! And a lot less pressure on the sail and hook because I was going faster, and much easier to control in the gusts with foot pressure due to the smaller wing span and surface area. Overall the foil and wings have been great, and no damage to anything from major hits on sandbars. Sure some minor dings from hitting rocks in the sand, but the wings are solid carbon so easy to repair, and since the foil/wings are heat cured under pressure the epoxy is much harder than the two part epoxy I use to fill the dings, so it is easy to sand off the excess to make a flush repair without removing the original epoxy. The screws and nuts are all good with no rust after being in saltwater 100% of the time. The only issue now is no one in the US is carrying AFS, so had to order the F700 wing directly from AFS, and that worked out good, DHL took care of everything and gave me daily updates. When importing into the US I just need to keep the order under $2000 to avoid any import fees. Oh, and great customer support too, especially considering I was a newbie, Bruno Andre was very patient with me. I hear about other brands of foils/wings cracking and breaking, and nuts coming loose, glad I do not have to deal with that.

segler
WA, 976 posts
28 Dec 2020 12:49AM
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I concur with everything Sandman says about AFS. They are bulletproof. All-carbon and very well made.

I also concur with his comparison of the F800 and F700 wings. Pretty much my experience as well. My AFS-2 with those two wings will last forever.

It is too bad nobody is selling AFS in the USA anymore. I originally got my AFS stuff from Sailworks. If you still want AFS quality and durability, I think Moses is the call nowadays. Sailworks sells only the really best gear, and they are a Moses seller now.

Sandman1221
1157 posts
28 Dec 2020 7:05AM
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Are the Moses wings solid carbon or hollow?, the biggest one has to be hollow.

Gwarn
103 posts
28 Dec 2020 10:18PM
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Moses wings are foam core

Sandman1221
1157 posts
29 Dec 2020 5:20AM
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What I noticed with the F700 wing, compared to the F800, is it made my foil lighter and in 1-2+ waves and 18+ knots the wind would get under my Goya Bolt 135 and make the foil try to float part way to the surface when I was still in the water, but with hollow/foam core wings I think it could make the foil want to float up to the surface turning my board on edge and allow the wind to push the board into me and towards shore, that would not be good.

w100
WA, 149 posts
30 Dec 2020 4:57AM
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What's the wind range of the 85 with f800 and f700 for a 80 kg begginer?
What's the best foil dedicated board size for this foil?
Is it possible successfully matching it with the S or R wings model?

Sandman1221
1157 posts
31 Dec 2020 1:09AM
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w100 said..
What's the wind range of the 85 with f800 and f700 for a 80 kg begginer?
What's the best foil dedicated board size for this foil?{]
Is it possible successfully matching it with the S or R wings model?


I am 86 kg, so range is easy 8-25+ knots
AHD boards would work well, saw some getting clearanced due to color change. But contact AFS, Bruno Andre would know, Thunder bolt maybe.
Yes, S and R wings will fit 85, but they have different stabilizers than the F series.

ZeeGerman
214 posts
14 Jan 2021 5:14PM
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Wind range depends on sail size as well. I'm pretty sure the AFS 85 can be handled in very high winds, too.
I'm about 85 kilos, too and seem to get on the plane with the F800 in about 10 knots and a 6,4 sail. Guessing is diffcult for me, though. I was out on the same combo a couple of days ago with the wind picking up and finally gusting to 30 knots (not my estimate, but there is a webcam with a windgauge at the beach). It was very challenging and not relaxed. I would have been overpowered on the fin board as well and I surely didn't look good, but was positively surprised that it was still somehow sailable. I couldn't sheet in in the gusts, but with the mast foot set a little further forward than usual (130 from the tail) holding the foil down was possible at least. It's a very controllable foil.
The F700A takes about 3 knots more for take-off, but can probably handle a lot more wind.

Sandman1221
1157 posts
25 Jan 2021 11:06AM
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ZeeGerman said..
Wind range depends on sail size as well. I'm pretty sure the AFS 85 can be handled in very high winds, too.
I'm about 85 kilos, too and seem to get on the plane with the F800 in about 10 knots and a 6,4 sail. Guessing is diffcult for me, though. I was out on the same combo a couple of days ago with the wind picking up and finally gusting to 30 knots (not my estimate, but there is a webcam with a windgauge at the beach). It was very challenging and not relaxed. I would have been overpowered on the fin board as well and I surely didn't look good, but was positively surprised that it was still somehow sailable. I couldn't sheet in in the gusts, but with the mast foot set a little further forward than usual (130 from the tail) holding the foil down was possible at least. It's a very controllable foil.
The F700A takes about 3 knots more for take-off, but can probably handle a lot more wind.


The F700A is not recommended for higher winds due to less stability and control, while the F700 is great in 16 knots and up. I agree about the F800 in higher winds, glad I got the F700 for that range, is much easier to control and a lot faster.

Sandman1221
1157 posts
29 Jan 2021 1:05AM
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Scraped the back of a manatee (sea cow) in flight with the F800 wing, almost dropped me out of flight, no damage to wing! Gotta love solid carbon wings.

LeeD
3348 posts
29 Jan 2021 3:25AM
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Almost every foiler here in Berkeley Ca. hits sealife while foiling at least a couple times a week. BAD....!
I try to weave if I see anything, and also attach a loose 3mm leash from rear footstrap to foil mast so the vibration and the continuous "whisshing" sound might indicate my location and direction to intelligent sea life.
Foils are pretty silent, and sometimes fellow foilers mention they can hear my setup as they pass. GOOD....!

Sandman1221
1157 posts
29 Jan 2021 4:12AM
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LeeD said..
Almost every foiler here in Berkeley Ca. hits sealife while foiling at least a couple times a week. BAD....!
I try to weave if I see anything, and also attach a loose 3mm leash from rear footstrap to foil mast so the vibration and the continuous "whisshing" sound might indicate my location and direction to intelligent sea life.
Foils are pretty silent, and sometimes fellow foilers mention they can hear my setup as they pass. GOOD....!


Yeah, I have a 1.9 mm leash, maybe the manatee heard it and started to dive so I only hit its back, that and being 2' up. Hitting a 1 ton manatee broadside would not be good.

LeeD
3348 posts
29 Jan 2021 4:51AM
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We get small seals and sometimes Harbor seals in our sailing area.
Hate to hit those guys with a foil.
They're looking right at us when we slog out to the wind line, and you can see intelligence behind those eyes.

Sandman1221
1157 posts
1 Feb 2021 8:03AM
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So the AFS stab. shims are really important for light wind foiling, but now that I have an F800 (now F1080) and F700 (now F770) I am testing out shims on the F700 too.

For the F800:
1 shim for under 15 knots, 2 shims for 10 and under.

For the F700:
1 shim for 15-18 knots, and since I start using the F700 in 15 I do not think 2 shims would help me. 1 shim in over 18 and a gust will make the foil jump out of the water.

segler
WA, 976 posts
1 Feb 2021 11:56PM
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So I presume your shims INCREASE the stab down angle, correct?

Reason I ask is that the Moses Race and Starboard Race shims are designed to DECREASE the stab down angle.

Sandman1221
1157 posts
2 Feb 2021 1:00AM
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segler said..
So I presume your shims INCREASE the stab down angle, correct?

Reason I ask is that the Moses Race and Starboard Race shims are designed to DECREASE the stab down angle.


Yes, you are correct, the shims go between the bottom of the fuselage and the front top of the stabilizer, which mounts under the fuselage.

I think if you decrease the wing size, while keeping the same size stabilizer, the effect of the shims is increased since the stabilizer gets bigger relative to the wing. Maybe that is why I do not see the need to use 2 shims on the F700 wing.

segler
WA, 976 posts
3 Feb 2021 4:28AM
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Current I use zero shims for the F700, and one shim for the F800.

The shim is made from coke bottle plastic in a drawing that Sailworks issued. Yes, the shim adds thickness to the front of the stab, which, being mounted underneat (same as the main wing), increases down angle.

Sandman1221
1157 posts
3 Feb 2021 4:44AM
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segler said..
Current I use zero shims for the F700, and one shim for the F800.

The shim is made from coke bottle plastic in a drawing that Sailworks issued. Yes, the shim adds thickness to the front of the stab, which, being mounted underneat (same as the main wing), increases down angle.



What is the thickness of your shim? The shims I got from AFS are 0.48 mm at the front edge which sits flush with the inside recess at the front of the stab., and 0.22 mm at the trailing edge behind the screw hole.

If a shim is the same thickness it will decrease the stab. area that mates/loads with/on the fuselage.

segler
WA, 976 posts
4 Feb 2021 12:44AM
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Rather than measure the thickness of the shim, I just measure the change in the stab down angle. The shim adds 0.5 deg down angle.

Sandman1221
1157 posts
4 Feb 2021 3:45AM
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segler said..
Rather than measure the thickness of the shim, I just measure the change in the stab down angle. The shim adds 0.5 deg down angle.



Checked, 1 AFS shim was 0.4 degrees, 2 shims were 1.0 degrees, so about 0.5 degrees per shim.

frankfinn
15 posts
5 Feb 2021 2:44AM
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Hey Sandman

The new AFS 95cm (94cm Fuselage) Mast is only compatible with S&R wings (confirmed by Bruno), which means if you want to go with AFS foils and use F wings then either you get the old 95cm Mast (88 fuselage) or go with what their configurator only allows you to do and get the 85cm Mast.
Any thoughts on this?
Foil Newbie researching gear.

Sandman1221
1157 posts
5 Feb 2021 4:23AM
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frankfinn said..
Hey Sandman

The new AFS 95cm (94cm Fuselage) Mast is only compatible with S&R wings (confirmed by Bruno), which means if you want to go with AFS foils and use F wings then either you get the old 95cm Mast (88 fuselage) or go with what their configurator only allows you to do and get the 85cm Mast.
Any thoughts on this?
Foil Newbie researching gear.




Hey Frankfinn, think something was lost in the translation.
From the AFS website: the "F, S, and R Range of wings compatible with all new (fuselage 94.5 cm) and old (fuselage 88 cm) masts." Note: The old 95 cm mast with 88 cm fuse. is no longer available. In addition, the S670 wing, which fits the new 95 cm mast, is just a renamed F700S wing that also fits the old 95 cm mast with 88 cm fuse., confirmed that with the Sailworks crew and Bruno Andre.

The confusion must be over the website ordering, if you want to order a "complete foil set" with an F1080 or F770 wing, then you have to get the 85 cm mast with 88 cm fuse. But you can order the new 95 cm mast with 94.5 cm fuse., and then add a F1080 front wing and 320 rear wing to the cart.

I am thinking of getting the S-670 wing, as well as an R-810 wing, for my old 95 cm mast with 88 cm fuse., but the new 95 cm mast with 94.5 cm fuse. is very tempting!

frankfinn
15 posts
5 Feb 2021 11:51PM
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Hey Sandman

Just looked at the site again. Says 'Range of wings compatible with....'
And yes your right about when ordering the 'Complete Foil Set' too.

So thats what I asked Bruno and he put simply.
'On the old 95 with 88cm fuselage YES !

Not on the new 95 with longer fuselage'

Think your right, something is lost in translation. I prefer your version though as would prefer to get the 95cm mast which would give me more scope for progression with diff wings.....if I progress of course.

If you here otherwise let me know.
Thanks.

Sandman1221
1157 posts
6 Feb 2021 9:00AM
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frankfinn said..


Hey Sandman

Just looked at the site again. Says 'Range of wings compatible with....'
And yes your right about when ordering the 'Complete Foil Set' too.

So thats what I asked Bruno and he put simply.
'On the old 95 with 88cm fuselage YES !


Not on the new 95 with longer fuselage'

Think your right, something is lost in translation. I prefer your version though as would prefer to get the 95cm mast which would give me more scope for progression with diff wings.....if I progress of course.

If you here otherwise let me know.
Thanks.



Well Bruno designed the new 95 cm T-bar. Sent him an email, will let you know what he says.

I agree, if I were you I would get the 95 cm T-bar too, looks cool to boot! Though while starting out I would stick with the F1080 wing, the S-series wings would probably be my choice now.

Sandman1221
1157 posts
7 Feb 2021 2:09AM
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Sandman1221 said..

frankfinn said..




Hey Sandman

Just looked at the site again. Says 'Range of wings compatible with....'
And yes your right about when ordering the 'Complete Foil Set' too.

So thats what I asked Bruno and he put simply.
'On the old 95 with 88cm fuselage YES !



Not on the new 95 with longer fuselage'

Think your right, something is lost in translation. I prefer your version though as would prefer to get the 95cm mast which would give me more scope for progression with diff wings.....if I progress of course.

If you here otherwise let me know.
Thanks.




Well Bruno designed the new 95 cm T-bar. Sent him an email, will let you know what he says.

I agree, if I were you I would get the 95 cm T-bar too, looks cool to boot! Though while starting out I would stick with the F1080 wing, the S-series wings would probably be my choice now.


According to Bruno the F770 wing is suitable for the new 95 cm mast, but the F1080 wing is not suitable, does not mean it will not fit, sounds like it may just not perform as intended. If I was using the F1080 wing on the new 95 cm mast I would likely use a 280 rear wing since with the longer 94.5 cm fuselage the rear wing will have more leverage. But mixing/matching foils is touchy, and that may be why Bruno does not recommend using the F1080 wing on the new 95 cm mast.

Sandman1221
1157 posts
16 Feb 2021 9:04AM
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Sandman1221 said..
So the AFS stab. shims are really important for light wind foiling, but now that I have an F800 (now F1080) and F700 (now F770) I am testing out shims on the F700 too.

For the F800:
1 shim for under 15 knots, 2 shims for 10 and under.

For the F700:
1 shim for 15-18 knots, and since I start using the F700 in 15 I do not think 2 shims would help me. Also Need 1 shim in 18-22 and a detuned sail (see below) otherwise a gust will make the foil jump out of the water.


revised shim for F700, in 18-22 knots I have 1-2+ foot waves and need 1 shim to get up easily, but in-flight my 5.8 catches too much wind, solution was moderate downhaul, and more outhaul to start to flatten it out, then when I get in the air sail is manageable and have stable flights.

Sandman1221
1157 posts
16 Feb 2021 9:06AM
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Sandman1221 said..
Sandman1221 said..

frankfinn said..




Hey Sandman

Just looked at the site again. Says 'Range of wings compatible with....'
And yes your right about when ordering the 'Complete Foil Set' too.

So thats what I asked Bruno and he put simply.
'On the old 95 with 88cm fuselage YES !



Not on the new 95 with longer fuselage'

Think your right, something is lost in translation. I prefer your version though as would prefer to get the 95cm mast which would give me more scope for progression with diff wings.....if I progress of course.

If you here otherwise let me know.
Thanks.




Well Bruno designed the new 95 cm T-bar. Sent him an email, will let you know what he says.

I agree, if I were you I would get the 95 cm T-bar too, looks cool to boot! Though while starting out I would stick with the F1080 wing, the S-series wings would probably be my choice now.


According to Bruno the F770 wing is suitable for the new 95 cm mast, but the F1080 wing is not suitable, does not mean it will not fit, sounds like it may just not perform as intended. If I was using the F1080 wing on the new 95 cm mast I would likely use a 280 rear wing since with the longer 94.5 cm fuselage the rear wing will have more leverage. But mixing/matching foils is touchy, and that may be why Bruno does not recommend using the F1080 wing on the new 95 cm mast.


Do not use F1080 wing with new 95 cm mast and 94.5 fuselage, Bruno said that combination is not suitable, and he should know!

Sandman1221
1157 posts
23 Feb 2021 7:50AM
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Sandman1221 said..
So the AFS stab. shims are really important for light wind foiling, but now that I have an F800 (now F1080) and F700 (now F770) I am testing out shims on the F700 too.

For the F800:
1 shim for under 15 knots, 2 shims for 10 and under.

For the F700:
1 shim for 15-18 knots, and since I start using the F700 in 15 I do not think 2 shims would help me. 1 shim in over 18 and a gust will make the foil jump out of the water.


revised AFS Wind 95 foil stabilizer shim use with a Goya Bolt 135 board:

1 shim for F800/F1080 wing from 8-15 knots, at 15+ knots I put on the F700/F770 wing, if you use the F800 in 15+ remove the shim.

1 shim for F700/F770 wing from 15- 22 knots, and probably higher.

So now I just leave 1 shim in all the time, guys a Sailworks told me to do that, but thought it could not be that easy!

Sandman1221
1157 posts
27 Mar 2021 6:20AM
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F770 wing, while it gets up easily in 15+ knots without pumping, once up it flies fine in 12-15. Normally use with my 5.8 Aerotech freespeed, but will try with my 7.2 freespeed in 13-15.

Sailrepair
28 posts
7 Apr 2021 5:36PM
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Here is a review of the foils that I did
AFS Wind FoilsI have been using AFS wind foils for some years now so I thought I would give you my impressions of the latest 2021 versions. I used to use a W105 foil with the R1000 wings and that has been replaced like for like. The R1000 wing has been renamed R810 as the wings are now named by their surface area rather than their wingspan. The new wings will fit on older fuselages but the 2020 wings will not not on the wider 2021 fuselages (apart from on the w85 which is unchanged). The new flange at the top of the mast is now built in and much stronger. The graphics are built in which again is an improvement.So would I notice any difference with the new foils claiming to be stiffer? Yes, there is a difference but you won't start flying and say "wow this feels a lot stiffer" what I found is that with the older foils there must have been some increased flex that gave you a sense of height ie you were aware when flying at near full height but at first on the new foils I often found myself flying at full mast height without realising it. The flight feels the same whether you are 10cm or 100 cm above the water. The new fuselages are a few cm longer and if you thought the old foils gave a very level flight the new ones do even more so. I don't race so I can't comment on comparative upwind ability etc but will say I can point as high as I wish. I had the old W95 which was used mainly in stronger winds on narrower boards with a f800 wing. This has been replaced by the new W95 with either the R810 or R660 wings. The F800 (now renamed the F1080) is not available for the W95 or W105 so I was at a bit of a loss with what to replace it with. I was slightly nervous that the R610 would be tiny and would be a very on/off type foil making life hard work in the gusty winds I often go out in but it is working well. I use the R810 with sails down to 5.3 and winds up to maybe a 25 kt gust. And then the R610 for the 5.3 and below and if the wind is over 20 kts. Even with its small surface area the R610 keeps going through lulls and round gybes etc (i am 95kg). The new foils come with shims. They have a shim for the front wing in case you find your board flies very nose up or down and then a second shim for the rear wing for you to increase or decrease lift. I am pleased to say I have not used the shims and the foils retain that "plug and play" nature of the older AFS foils, no need to go messing about with settings. I have used the R810 race wings for a couple of years now, despite their name they are very easy to use. They feel slippy and efficient through the water. To get flying they accelerate easily and don't need much in the way of pumping downwards. You are best to concentrate on building speed through pumping the sail. When it is windy there is no need to pump at all and you can use the nearest bit of chop as a take off ramp. When the wind drops very light you can keep flying by pumping the sail, small high frequency pumps working the best. The only down side I can think of for using the race wings for learning is that they are very fine tipped so you don't want to run it aground or kick it. The wings are very tough but with such a good product it deserves to be looked after.I should point out that while the wings have a "race" label you don't have to sail them from a outboard stance, the wings are very well mannered and can be sailed in a relaxed upright style with your back foot on top of the front foil bolt, in fact that is how I use them most of the time.So in conclusion I am very happy with the new foils. I thought I would have to move my footstrap positions to maintain balance but the new foils have worked fine with the straps in the same positions I used for the earlier AFS foils.

sailrepair.co.uk/afs-2021-windfoils/

Sandman1221
1157 posts
8 Apr 2021 6:06AM
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Sailrepair, thanks, you answered questions I had about the R810 wing and foot-strap position for the new longer fuselage.

As for feeling the height on the old W95, like you I can definitely feel when I am close to breaching, very light flutter feeling, as soon as I feel it I know to lower my height, helpful when cutting across swells/waves.



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"AFS Wind95 foil F800 and F700 wings" started by Sandman1221