Why do people prone with the smallest possible board their bodies and arms can handle? Same reason.

There is one reason that may not be brought up , and I'm only extrapolating...... watching my son the other day when we were caught in some frontal stuff with a really angry ocean. It was bloody hard to restart on my 90 litre floater with all the chop, cross waves and wind well beyond the wings projected max range.....By sinking his board below the surface he seemed to be able to stabilise it easier. Again only guessing. That's next summers mission for me as I've only done it in nice flat water and I'm not game to improve in these winter conditions.


and I suppose the other reason is my son uses one board for everything. But he is thirteen and only weighs 50kg.

I've not made the jump to my 38 L prone board at 90 Kgs yet, but hope to try when I get the chance in warmer water. I have been riding a 77L board at times and the feeling from the board/foil is more direct and responsive than with my larger board. Tacks on foil are easier and turns are tighter. The 38L should offer more of these sensations. BUT the hassles are real and the frustrations are sometimes not worth it, so I'm often torn between easy and fun or difficult and higher performance.

Still not quite getting it. I understand a large 8 foot SUP is not as nice to fly as a smaller board. But a 5 foot floater board verses a 4 foot sinker board is what I'm asking about. Once flying, not sure if the extra few inches and ounces, will make that much difference especially if both boards are light weight. As for upwind drag, I don't think board shape is the main issue. I believe rider "shape" will have significantly more drag.

I feel for most of the world the floater boards will be a far better and easier option. Unless you live in WA or Maui like places this.
Riding a sinker all the time can be a pain in quite a few ways, even WA i would hate to be on a sinker and have the wind drop or crash and pop a wing as proning in from a few k out to sea would keep the heart rate up that's for sure!.

The other side I don't quite get is aren't sinker boards not just your prone board? so most crew will have one in the quiver anyway over time. Don't quite see needing a purpose built sinker wing board at this stage. I am more than happy using my 4'2 x 32L as my sinker with no straps and it's easy enough when we do get wind strong enough outside of this my 5ft x 90L suits me for everything else and cuts upwind just fine for my level of riding.

Just keep it simple as its way more fun this way

Jacko

Pacey said..

I think the windage problem is more to do with the fact that a fairly large flat board is effectively an aerofoil itself, and when it is going upwind it is typically tilted to windward and often slightly nose down. This means that the board is a wing whose lift is pointed downwards, increasing the load on the foil and generating both aerodynamic and hydrodynamic drag as a result. The smaller the board, the less this is going to be true, so the small board will feel faster as well as being more manoeuvrable due to the lower swing weight.

Exactly!, i had a 5'9 with a concave top deck, this upside down airfoil shape created a lot of downwards lift when you tilted it to go upwind.

Thanks everyone for your responses, they help shed light on what people are thinking, as I try to figure out this great new sport. I see so many guys in a rush to step down to smaller and smaller boards, and wondering if this is a good direction for wing foiling in general. Don't want so much machismo driving the sport that the average person becomes too intimidated to try (like kiting).

Thx EPPO for your explanations. Just a thought, you might want to consider talking to a professional about your reverse oedipus complex.

I'm hijacking a bit this thread...but sinker....or smaller boards. In super light wind...when you have lulls with wing that don't flag...I guess with a sinker you need to sit on the board and wait for the gust to come...and quite a workout to get on foil..so I assume this is why some are suggesting a two board quiver? But let say you want to be a minimalism...by choice or not $$$ and you take juste one board that is about your weight in volume. I assume that board will also not let you stand on it when there is no wind to flag the wing(unless super advanced)...and probably requires more wind to take off than a board...let say your weight +10-15L also?

Won't be recognized until your skill level reaches high enough to reap the benefits.

I am interested in what is the percentage of your weight when the sunken board becomes easy to manage.

I am 105kg and a 95L board will sink when I cannot get enough planing speed, but it is not a sinker. I tried a 75L as well but it was still too floaty.

So is the number 50% of your weight and less?

I find using boards the same volume as my body weight or just un a real pain in the arse and I guess why i like that little more volume as it just makes life so much easier. We dont really have a weight problem on our boards so that little extra volume hurts in no way at all.

I sometimes used my 4'8 x 40L Prone www.oneoceansportsaustralia.com/shop/foil-prone-boards these weigh approx 2.5kg and the difference between my 5ft x 90L wing board www.oneoceansportsaustralia.com/shop/wind-wing-boards is pretty minimal when foiling but the wing board is just so much easier to get up in the lighter wings and feel sweet as for downwinding and wave riding. I will admit I have no interest in jumping with the foil so maybe crew doing flips might find the prone size board easier but for the rest of it I just like to make it easy and keep life simple most of the time.

eppo said..
I'm not sure whether you are giving or asking for advice above ?

that was real question, because I got a board at +25 my volume and was wondering if my assumptions are ok? ;-)

eppo said..
Yeh you see I don't buy that above.
it sounds like a justification for trying to avoid the perils of sinknstarting to me.

Once on the wave surely a smaller board with half the volume will be much easier to turn, more nimble and also far easier to pump onto the next swell surge. I know My 40l prone board has all these markedly improved qualities above when wave riding. I can link waves on my prone - good luck trying to prone my 90 litre (which I have done a few times) and link up.

agree with the plus 10 ish on weight though for a normal stand start. I know I could use a 75 ish litre board now but why? If it going to give me a marked difference than my 90 litre. I doubt it. But a 40 litre board - yep it has to be noticeabley better in all qualities except of course starting in lighter / shifty winds.

so I don't think jumping is the only improvement - ability offered by sinknstarting.


as I said earlier - let's not kid ourselves.

Are we talking wing or prone foiling here? If I go prone foiling then yeah my 32L prone foil board feels good and is easier to pump around than my 90L wing board pretty sure no one will argue that but put a paddle in my hand and I can surf and pump my wing board just, as well as I, can pump and surf my prone board.

Now when we talk winging I would and do choose my wing board 99% of the time for the fact it's just easier and in no way do i find it holding me back for the style of riding i do. Could I ride my prone board the same? yeah more than likely but why for the winds we get why do i want to go through the hassle of riding the under volumed board when i really don't need to and for little to no advantage. As i say if i was jumping then maybe i would ride smaller prone boards more but for me just riding waves and downwind I don;t see much need to do so. You have to remember we have the wing in our hands so why do you even want to pump out to the next wave when the wing has the power for this? By the way pumping my wing board out with the wing in hand is still no hassle.

Not trying to justify anything and coming from someone who has tried it all and can ride a prone on the wing doing sink starts I really don't know why people want to make things harder than they need to be for the stage most people are at in the sport. If i lived in Maui with 30 knots every day then maybe I would think differently but East coast 15-20 knots for most sessions and wanting to keep it fun I know what i am riding.

I don't think we can compare prone foiling to wing foiling by the way as the wing puts in a huge difference that makes so many areas different.

Jacko

Goofcat said..
Thank you guys for all the wonderful responses. I live on Maui and we don't get as many 30kt days as people think. Most of the time it's 14-20 knots which is great. As our sport grows there should be more discussions like these, much like what people think the shape of boards, wings and foils should be. Right now, I'm sticking to my 95L which barely floats my 88kgs. When I get better I'll try out my wife's 80L and see how that goes. Thanks again for letting me pick everyone's brains.

haha your 14 to 20 knots is our 30 knots!!

Agreed goofcat great discussion. Interesting view points.

Slogging is not slogging until the wind really drops.

Two days ago i went on an upwind/downwind session.Forecast was 15-20kt for +3 hours,isobaric with a thermic boost.

Went out with an 85l for 70kg and 4m, the 3km upwind leg went fine.

But as soon as i did the last gybe to start the downwind the breeze dropped to 5-7kt.Came off foil on the gybe exit and that was it,a rain cloud had released its load way upwind and killed the thermic...

So i was left with no power in the wing and very choppy seas.When the wind drops like this it usually veers a bit too creating a small xchop.

Slogging like that is slow ,tiring and very uncomfortable.You will miss every liter you do not have wobbling under your feet.

It took me ages to get back,a mixture of standing,kneeling,sitting and swearing.

IMHO volumes below your weight are for staying close to the beach,great for waveriding and freestyle.But not very seaworthy.I can do a 3km paddle but i would hate every minute.And there would be many minutes.

BTW somebody saw me slogging back,decided i was in extreme danger (??) and called emergency services.
When i landed on the beach there were 7 policemen of different units,and a fire truck with full crew,lights on.
What an entrance :)

Thank god one of the policemen was a begginner kiter and had told the helicopter to go back to base as he saw no problem anywhere ...