Gong YPRA and new Fluid/Veloce HA foils

Anyone tried these? Looks like Gong finally have some high end HA foils, combined with their new carbon mast (hopefully stiff) and titanium fuselage and new tails, it might be a affordable solution for a good setup.

I have an YPRA L (1000cm2) and a Fluid H (1200cm2) on order, can't wait to try.

Will see if they can rival Armstrong HA series and AXis ART series.

Any input on actual use would be most welcome.

I have ypra 800. My first day thoughts were: Wind 7/11 ms, my weight 73kg and second summer with wing. Mast carbon 100 and new pro fuse. My previous most used setup to compare with is fluid mt 950cm2 with old V2 fuse and 40cm fluid pro stab. Takeoff is easy - something like fluid mt (I have well gliding board Takoon Glide 80L). Really easy to ride - no surprises. Glides better than old fluid. Basic jibe is really easy to do because of long glide. Tack to switch jibe probably easier with Ypra than fluid mt because of extended glide. My max speed in lake conditions with fluid mt was 40,8 kmh. Max speed with Ypra 800 and new veloce 40 stab was only 38 kmh. Stab was too small for me to keep constant hight in a bit gusty wind (Though I am getting better with it at the moment) . I changed to new fluid 42 stab and got max 41.8 kmh (pretty flat lake 5.5 wing). In these conditions the front wing felt quite big and probably 600-700cm2 would be ideal for my weight. Ypra goes upwind great - so does fluid mt - ypra is somewhat faster. Slowest / stall speed is similar to fluid mt - no problems with jibes and and no unexpected drops. Ypra does not carve so smoothly as fluid mt but it is doable and I can not see any reason why not to use in waves. Whistles a lot! Bottomline: surprisingly easy to takeoff and ride, great glide and upwind properties. Don't expect big improvements to max speed if you already use medium size front wing. Size is good for lighter wind race or for heavier person? Looking forward something in size 600-700cm2. Current carbon mast is maybe the biggest drag when the wings are getting so tiny / thin.

Select to expand quote

Kalevi said..
I have also fluid H M 1000cm2. It is kind of weird. I probably should spend hours with it to understand how it should be driven. The U - shape makes it to turn easily, or you first think so, but when you really tilt the foil the huge width of the foil tries to resist. At the moment it just feels bit akward for me. It is quite fast and goes upwind well and take off is really really easy. Glide is not so great if compared to the ypra 800. Fluid h is so different what I have driven before that I have been learning mainly ypra. Fluid H medium was about to be my light wind day front wing but it seems that I can get ypra 800 going so easily that I have been driving just with that. I should give fluid h another chance and learn it better. Any how it is probably aimed for freestyle tricks and I do just race, jibes, waves (waiting waves to test ypra).

Interesting. Just got my Fluid H L (102cm, 1250 sq cm, .74l) but haven't had the chance to ride it yet. Hopefully today if the weather cooperates. Absolutely no idea what to expect. I did have a couple of sessions on a borrowed ART 999 and I'm used getting my light-wind 107cm Veloce XXL to make fairly tight "flat turns" (it definitely doesn't like the lean hard and carve tight routine as expected) so we'll see. Will report back

I got a chance to test a friends Ypra M 800cm2 and Fluid MH 1000cm2 couple of days ago. My weight is 85kg's. I've been riding couple of years with Gong foils. Currently my most used foils are Fluid LS 1100cm2, Veloce L 1300cm and for light wind Fluid XLT 1550cm2.

I was a little intimidated at first because Gong's warnings about high level needed to take off with these high aspect foils. I consider myself a good level rider, but not a pro. Conditions were gusty lake conditions. Basewind maybe around 12 knots gusting to 18. I used my bigger 95L board to get good glide to launch these small foils.

First i tested Fluid MH 1000cm2. Take off was really easy, i would say easier than with my Veloce L 1300cm2. Turning was a bit strange. At first you feel that this thing would turn quickly as the initial turn is fast. But after first 5 degrees of banking it starts to resist and you can literally feel the wingspan that the foil has. Maybe this would take a while to get used to, but my initial impression was not liking it. Also the gliding is not spectacular. Maybe a little bit better than Veloce L but not much. So for me, the Veloce L wins hands down, it glides around the same, but turns much better. After 15mins of riding i decided that this was not foil for me.

Next thing to test was Ypra 800cm2. I had the impression that this would be a racing foil for very good level, lightweight rider and strong wind. So i had doubt if i would be able to get it up in those moderate conditions with my weight. For my surprise it wasn't that hard to get going. With proper gust and a little longer acceleration phase it got up quite nicely. With this foil i could definately feel the difference in glide. Maybe with the max speed also but not that much. As said before with faster speeds everything else starts also to make a drag (mast, rider, wing) so by going smaller with foil can only do so much and has dimishing returns at some point. But the gliding part was definately nice improvement. Turning the Ypra feels a bit like going on rails. But that is what is supposed to do as designed racing wing.

So my conclusion is that with HA foils you can go with smaller sizes as usually is recommended. And i think that Gong is too conservative with it's recommendations. Maybe they are afraid that people have too much difficulties to get up with new foils. But after all these foils are aimed for more exprienced riders and by recommendating sizes too large will cause people to dislike them because of loss of agility. I live in low wind area. And after these tests a good foil for myself for moderate wind would probalbly be a smallest Veloce H size. This would still leave lighter riders wanting something smaller, especially for strong wind racing.

Howevr i have to mention that i'm yet to try these ha wings with my sinker board. This could be a different story as i can imagine that getting up would be harder and thus validate the need for larger sizes. But for me the larger sizes don't offer that much better glide and turning is not so good so why bother.

Select to expand quote

IanInca said..
I had a slightly different experience.

I'm 78kg and on my 75L board, new Fluid LH1250 with the small kite stab. My normal foil is the Veloce LT 1350.

My one ride so far was short wave period chest high waves with gusty 10 to 14 knots.

Definitely a different technique to get up. I struggled to generate the required speed to get up as waves hampered me. When up it felt fast and less draggy than the LT. I normally make 100% of jibes but I missed around 40% on the LH. I think I will get this dialled, the small stab makes it overly pitch sensitive but I like the loose feeling. The wind dropped a bit and I couldn't get it up when I would have muscled my veloce LT up . The glide definitely felt good and I'm excited to progress with this wing.

A friend who is a similar weight to me but has been on smaller HA foils for a while was able to ride his smaller Moses foil when I couldn't get mine up. A period of transition is needed if you are winging amongst waves and downwinding.

IanInca, Sounds like we have really similar #'s. 78kg on a 78L board with the Fluid LH. My regular is the Fluid LT. I rode the Fluid LH yesterday for about 30 min in lousy conditions it's not suited for but,. I was really anxious to try it. Very grassy (I hate foiling in grassy water!) flattish water. First overpowered on my 5m wing then overpowered on my 4m wing. I eventually switched over to the Fluid LT and my 3m Slick for the balance of the session. Still, it was fun to try it out even if I didn't come remotely close to doing it justice. Gotta start somewhere

I used it with the pro fuselage and 42cm Fluid H stabilizer, the 85cm V2 carbon mast (closer to 90 cm actual), and my 5'0" Code. Pitch stability seemed very reasonable with the Fluid H 42cm stab. I was shakey on the first few jibes but settled down slightly. I was actually amazed at how well it handled the grass given it's span. Maybe the sweep back front edge helps there. I'm a lousy "pumper" to start with and any of these thin HA foils requires a modified cadence, so I'm told. Needless to say my initial pumping wasn't a pretty sight (I think I tend to keep the foil too low for fear of breaching in a troth of that little short period stuff) but I could at least see the potential. Even coaxed it into a couple of heelside tacks while overpowered with my hand wing, something I struggled a bit more with when I tried the ART 999. Looking forward to progressing with it, and using it for downwinders (without the grass) where it should be far better suited

Currently on Veloce XL, thinking about Veloce H-L as a step down size with the Fluid H-M stab. Any thoughts?
90kg and low intermediate mainly into riding small short period ocean swell, possibly jumping.
Get most gybes and foot switches.

The Veloce H-XL is tempting but I worry about the size when jumping. Likely it would become my only foil at that point since I think there would be a lot of overlap with the regular XL.

Select to expand quote

Grantmac said..
Currently on Veloce XL, thinking about Veloce H-L as a step down size with the Fluid H-M stab. Any thoughts?
90kg and low intermediate mainly into riding small short period ocean swell, possibly jumping.
Get most gybes and foot switches.

Hey Grant. I was wondering what your thought are on the quality of the Gong foils. I have seen your thoughts on the SS Hoverglide's on various forums, and they are what I have been using for years, for better or worse lol. I am curious how the two compare. I am considering Fluids once they are in stock, currently Going's website has no full foil/mast/fuse specs or pricing listed on full foil Fluid setups so I have no clue what I would be getting and at what price. I am also tempted to go down the Hoverglide-Phantasm upgrade path...Thanks!

Great thanks Grant!

Select to expand quote

Fishdude said..

Grantmac said..

Windbot said..

Grantmac said..
Currently on Veloce XL, thinking about Veloce H-L as a step down size with the Fluid H-M stab. Any thoughts?
90kg and low intermediate mainly into riding small short period ocean swell, possibly jumping.
Get most gybes and foot switches.

Hey Grant. I was wondering what your thought are on the quality of the Gong foils. I have seen your thoughts on the SS Hoverglide's on various forums, and they are what I have been using for years, for better or worse lol. I am curious how the two compare. I am considering Fluids once they are in stock, currently Going's website has no full foil/mast/fuse specs or pricing listed on full foil Fluid setups so I have no clue what I would be getting and at what price. I am also tempted to go down the Hoverglide-Phantasm upgrade path...Thanks!

Quality is far better with the Gong, their mast to fuselage connection is absolutely solid. The front wing connection takes some learning to stay tight (tighten the top bolt first seems to work best).

That said I haven't played with the Phantasm but if I had hoverglide stuff I'd replace everything rather than upgrading parts.

With the euro where it is the cost is about half in the USA. If I was buying my first Gong I'd get a Fluid or Veloce T front wing and a Fluid H rear with the new fuselage.

DSpace: that was the plan. A two front wing quiver using the Fluid H-M tail. I'm feeling the Veloce XL tail is now too big in swell although probably great for learning tacks (I've managed a few on my big board but my new small board is much more reactive).

I think you meant to say tighten the bottom 2 screws first.
( which is on top when your board is upside down...)

Actually no, when I do that the wing is loose and wobbly within 1/2 hour.
I do the single top bolt first, then the front bottom then the rear bottom.
I believe this is because the force on the wing fitting is rotational.

I'm intending on potting the wing socket with epoxy for a tighter fit.

If Gong shipping wasn't so expensive I'd just get the new fuselage and stab.
As it is I feel like I need to get my next wing as well to maximize the shipping. Trying to figure out which to get is the challenge. Judging by reviews I definitely want the Veloce H either L or XL.

I should have my Veloce H-L and Fluid H42 stab next week, just in time for the windless season (although it's been a weird year so who knows).
I'm very curious to see what their HM mast will cost since that was my next thought along with a Fluid XXL-H for ultra light wind/dock start use.

Have the Veloce HL and H42 tail, really like the combo. Bit harder to get going than the Fluid LT but much better glide for sure... at 100kg wet still not encountered what I would consider insane glide, could just be my expectations are off though, only ridden a very limited set of gear.

Definitely like everything about the Veloce HL more than the Fluid HL, not getting on well with that foil ver well so far. I was expecting it to be the easy way into high aspect but it's not shaping up like that. Very roll unstable initially, but hard to tighten the turn up if needed, and glide underwhelming compared to the smaller Veloce. Much better path seems to be Fluid T to Veloce H, IMHO.

At present I'm still frothing pretty hard over the Fluid LT and H42 tail in our big fall storms, so stable in the chop, all the range I need, and finally starting to rip something vaguely resembling bottom turns, though top turns still very much a work in progress.

Select to expand quote

UisceBeatha said..

Grantmac said..
I should have my Veloce H-L and Fluid H42 stab next week, just in time for the windless season (although it's been a weird year so who knows).
I'm very curious to see what their HM mast will cost since that was my next thought along with a Fluid XXL-H for ultra light wind/dock start use.

Howdy, I've been on the Veloce H-L and Fluid H42 for the last month and its sick. Defo needs some wind and technique to get going (80kg in cold water gear) but accelerates savagely once you get the board off the water. I had a Fluid LT and find the Veloce a little more trackie (doesn't like changing direction quickly) but the glide is insane (compared to previous gong gear). Coming into winter season here now, actually heading out into 20knts and good wind swell for a lunchtime sess in a couple of hours. Lovin it!

Winter here too.

I'm very curious to get some reviews on the XXL H wings of all 3 lines since I can see myself wanting one for light wind use. I'd rather avoid going huge on my hand wing and relying on the efficiency and glide of the foil. Unsure that's a viable option with H foils though.

Select to expand quote

Svendson said..
Have the Veloce HL and H42 tail, really like the combo. Bit harder to get going than the Fluid LT but much better glide for sure... at 100kg wet still not encountered what I would consider insane glide, could just be my expectations are off though, only ridden a very limited set of gear.

Definitely like everything about the Veloce HL more than the Fluid HL, not getting on well with that foil ver well so far. I was expecting it to be the easy way into high aspect but it's not shaping up like that. Very roll unstable initially, but hard to tighten the turn up if needed, and glide underwhelming compared to the smaller Veloce. Much better path seems to be Fluid T to Veloce H, IMHO.

At present I'm still frothing pretty hard over the Fluid LT and H42 tail in our big fall storms, so stable in the chop, all the range I need, and finally starting to rip something vaguely resembling bottom turns, though top turns still very much a work in progress.

I haven't gone back to the Fluid LT yet as still getting to terms with the Veloce HL, however I do love the LT so looking forward to giving it a go with the new stab and fuse. Glad to hear its going well for you, took me a while to dial in the Fluid LT and have so much love for it once I did.

First session on Gong 100 cm V2 Carbon mast, titanium fuselage with Veloce Pro Stab H 40 and Fluid H L (~1200 cm2) / Ypra L (1000 cm2).

WOW! The Ypra have incredible glide and speed/upwind. Comparing this one to the Armstrong 1125+195 tail, the Ypra is much more stable, and maintain constant lift during a much wider speed range. Never had to apply front foot to keep her down, or got kicked out of the water, felt very neutral. Better glide (yes, it's a bit smaller) and much higher speed. Turning is similar, guess the longer fuselage of Gong gives a bit more relaxed and hooked in feeling. The Ypra wing is really thin, less bouyant than Armstrong. Ypra I would say is easier to ride than the 1125.

I would say from first impression, Gong 100cm V2 Carbon is same or stiffer than Armstrong A+ 85 cm. Gong is heavier.
Managed 19 knots on the Samsung Galaxy watch 4 (yes, unreliable). On the Armstrong with these choppy conditions I could probably do 14-15 knots. The Ypra gives much more confidence and is way easier at high speed. Going downwind on 0,5m swell, very high speed and easy to pump. Jumping same or better than Armstrong, probably because higher speed/accelleration. New personal record for height at least! Have to get used to 1 m mast and the longer fuselage. Have to work a bit more deliberate and harder with the back foot to shoot out of the water (more pitch stable).

The Fluid H-L have a bit more resistance compared to the two discussed above, but rail to rail is really nice, very curvy and good lift, much better turning than HA1125. Not as fast as Ypra, probably more in line with 1125, and not the same glide, but a good low wind I guess...getting spoiled riding Art 999 and HA1125.

Will be nice to compare the Ypra to the Axis Art 999 under same conditions, probably very similar, but Ypra hopefully faster. Ypra might need a bit more speed to takeoff.

Can do some comparison pictures tomorrow. Now the HM masts of both Armstrong, Axis and Gong will try to tear my wallet apart...again.
The 1m V2 Gong mast was way stiffer than the Gong Monoblock 1 m (which to me was useless), for now the V2 mast feels stiff enough.

Anyway, very stoked with the new equipment, will easily recommend the Gong Ypra, also happens to be the cheapest option, but quality seems very good, not lagging behind any of the other brands I've used. A lot of rambling, just stoked after todays session:-)