Forums > Wing Foiling General

How to avoid other water users

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Created by patronus 3 months ago, 19 Nov 2023
patronus
316 posts
19 Nov 2023 5:05PM
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Only me and another winger out. Winging toeside I had a good look round lifting the wing, especially backwards as about to gybe, but still turned towards winger coming up behind me. I can't figure how I didn't see them. Also had a few misses where people turned into me not looking first at all.
Any tips on seeing others? Even harder with mixed sports as windsurfers, kiters and wingers sail different lines.

boardsurfr
WA, 2174 posts
19 Nov 2023 10:56PM
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Beware of blind spots and timing. Even of we think we look around a lot, remember we travel at about 10 meters per second. What looks reasonably far away 5 seconds before a turn becomes a collision course 5 seconds later.

Blind spots are even more important. I once had a very close miss with a kiter that I captured on video and GPS. We both had been going in a straight line on a collision course (somewhere around 90 degree angle) for several hundred meters, without seeing each other. From the angles, I would have needed eyes in the back of my head, or turn my head almost 180 degrees, to see him. It was similar for him because he was riding toeside. To make sure that you're seeing someone coming up behind you when going toeside, you would have to swivel your head both ways, but turning your head away from the wing is almost impossible without moving the wing. So you pretty much have to know that someone who was in your blind spot may suddenly become visible as you start your turn, and be prepared to immediately turn back to avoid them.

bhc
VIC, 201 posts
20 Nov 2023 4:32PM
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boardsurfr said..
Beware of blind spots and timing. Even of we think we look around a lot, remember we travel at about 10 meters per second. What looks reasonably far away 5 seconds before a turn becomes a collision course 5 seconds later.

Blind spots are even more important. I once had a very close miss with a kiter that I captured on video and GPS. We both had been going in a straight line on a collision course (somewhere around 90 degree angle) for several hundred meters, without seeing each other. From the angles, I would have needed eyes in the back of my head, or turn my head almost 180 degrees, to see him. It was similar for him because he was riding toeside. To make sure that you're seeing someone coming up behind you when going toeside, you would have to swivel your head both ways, but turning your head away from the wing is almost impossible without moving the wing. So you pretty much have to know that someone who was in your blind spot may suddenly become visible as you start your turn, and be prepared to immediately turn back to avoid them.


Toeside riding compromises your range of angles, stability and vision. I feel uncomfortable when gybing toe-to-heel when there are other foilers around. It is a good idea to give more space to wingers on toeside and those with L-plates.

zarb
NSW, 620 posts
21 Nov 2023 10:57AM
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I'm still very new to winging, session #6 at a very busy area. Coming from kiting it's a very distinct difference in visibility with a gigantic sail right in front of your face.
I make sure that every couple of moments, and before any change of direction or technique attempt - I make sure to lift the wing high so I can get a good picture of where everyone is around me. I find myself doing this a lot and it really helps to put my mind at ease

3TOB
15 posts
2 Dec 2023 11:25AM
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Tacking is better then jibing for seeing people.

hilly
TAS, 7170 posts
2 Dec 2023 4:03PM
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Key rule is don't follow someone slightly downwind where they will gybe. I know some people tack but it is unusual. Pass upwind. Withitness is key. Look around a lot and if you are following expect them to turn.

noepoxy
NSW, 42 posts
2 Dec 2023 6:33PM
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learn the sailing rules and who has right of way, it will keep you safe on the water!

Jeroensurf
864 posts
3 Dec 2023 12:17AM
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Bring a couple of signs like this and place them at the entries will probably help a lot.
I also considdred bringing them to our small fresh water inland lake as some are stupid enough to not take the risk.

On the serious side: keeping distance is key. jibing is easier to maintain 360degree vision but when you tack just check and make your intentions clear.
Then again, **** can happen always, but keeping space instead of enforcing your right of way by rules with common sence should normally do it. (at least where I come in Europe)

Grantmac
1940 posts
3 Dec 2023 10:54AM
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Holding the wing below shoulder height when depowered helps a lot, including a quick check before gybing.

hilly
TAS, 7170 posts
3 Dec 2023 3:16PM
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noepoxy said..
learn the sailing rules and who has right of way, it will keep you safe on the water!



Not really as most punters on wing/kite/sail have no idea about port/starboard and it all goes out the window in waves.

Thatspec
318 posts
3 Dec 2023 3:42PM
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hilly said..
Key rule is don't follow someone slightly downwind where they will gybe. I know some people tack but it is unusual. Pass upwind. Withitness is key. Look around a lot and if you are following expect them to turn.


This is arguably the most important rule in all forms of sailing. Don't put yourself in the path of a potential collision. If you're out there sailing you know where the blind spots are. Don't BE in other peoples.

noepoxy
NSW, 42 posts
3 Dec 2023 8:34PM
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hilly said..


noepoxy said..
learn the sailing rules and who has right of way, it will keep you safe on the water!





Not really as most punters on wing/kite/sail have no idea about port/starboard and it all goes out the window in waves.



oh dear , it's a wind water sport so one should know the rules of sailing! IMO retailers should be encouraging this with every sale, the industry has a duty to share the maritime rules and keep everyone as safe as possible.

If nothing else learn the port/starboard rules (very easy to google), combined with common sense, and the #1 rule in maritime safety is to avoid a collision at all costs!

I'll leave the wave debate for others to chime in on, going out verses coming in/riding a wave, who takes one on the head???



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"How to avoid other water users" started by patronus