Purely theoretical. Anyone considered the life span of the current wings we are using and why?

Not a kiter, So no reference point...but with heavy use I'm expecting them to be pretty flogged out after a year. Sell cheap, rinse repeat I suppose.

I'm thinking a quality brand wing should last for many years just like a quality brand windsurf sail.. and they can even last decades.

Depends on how its used . Mucking round on a lake is far different than using it in waves

eppo said..
Purely theoretical. Anyone considered the life span of the current wings we are using and why?

A lot of good point already made but basically despite the usual stuff such as ability of rider, conditions/type of use and frequency of sessions the major differences in my eyes (having repaired a ridiculous number the last 2 seasons) are -

- the wing is in contact with the water every session - this cannot be ideal for its longevity esp if not dried after every use

- pumping - this will put pressure on points for every session and lead to high stress in certain areas (this will become less of an issue as manufacturers work out these points)

- early days - remember we are only seeing second generation wings now and like kiting in the early days manufacturers are learning heaps as they go

In my opinion as someone who repairs heaps and knows a thing or two about construction I think that current wings if used on a regular basis (3 times a week or more)will maybe last a couple of seasons but this time will improve as manufacturers develop the wings given time.

Ry
The Sail Doctor

Windows will crack really quickly. Non window kites being lighter and flex free will last longer and not stretch out of shape

Hey Eppo and friends . being wet all the time must impact their lifespan. My kites were in the water once or twice a year . Wings every session and end each session being wet as we exit. even if you manage a dry session on the foil it's a challenge getting to the beach fully dry . I am guessing the bladder issues we are seeing are due to being wet also. In addition my kiteing was shared between a 4 kite quiver and wingding is for most of us a 2 wing thing. Great topic , interesting.

I am also curious as to why getting a wing wet and storing it like that would hurt it's longevity.
I never dry them, but i might try to if there is a good reason.

I think windows are more susceptible to UV exposure. Just take a look at boat canopys. And kite material second to that. Add wet material with mold. Then life span shorter. And on top of that add physical stress as it ages.

I have a Hobie kayak sail with windows I used for a couple of years. Then stored dry after rinsing in freshwater. After about 6 years stored in my garage it's still good as new. It was folded & rolled. The window had that internal criss cross string re enforcement.

Where I park to go surfing etc. I saw a kite stuck up on a light pole exposed to all weather. It deteriorated in about 4 months. Not sure how old it was in the first place.

So I'm guessing it all depends on the type of weather, season and care.
When I buy surfboards, SUPs, Foils and Wingdings my main focus is durability with the best performance coming second. I want my hard earned money to last.
That's why my second V2 wing has no windows due to hearing windows will not last as long as wing sail material. Windows to me would be an advantage but am satisfied enough to put up with the occasional lift of my wing to see if needed.

I think the biggest threat to wing longevity are the large axes we bolt to the bottom of our boards. One swipe through the leading edge of an older wing will probably make it uneconomical to repair.

Kites get killed by flapping on the beach and UV, both deteriorate the cloth, at some point the kite crashes and rips.There is also a lot of load on kites, more than a wing, the canopy stretches out of shape causing performance loss. I doubt if we will get the same stretched canopy on a wing as they don't get crashed. Surf use is a total unknown, more like months rather than years I guess.
Bladders will always be an issue over time, say 3+ years and depending storage conditions. Hot cars kill bladders, try not to let them get hot. As the bladder ages the valves start leaking, and the wing will become unreliable. Nothing worse than getting to the beach only to find your wing/kite won't pump up.

eppo said..
Does anyone want to address the wet wings and it's impact on longevity. Why?

Short answer, no idea. I have never seen an authoritative article from a fabric manufacturer. I have seen heaps of instructions from gear manufacturers but they never go into the whys and hows.

The best theory I can come up with is that the waterproof coatings abrade off fairly quickly leaving the underlying fabric vulnerable to water damage. There's an obvious difference between a crispy new product and a well used product.

Everything I have owned made of high tech cloth has had the warning to thoroughly dry the item before storage. Sails, paragliders, kites, lightweight tents, clothing. You name it, you dry it. The manufacturers always stress that stuff needs to be dried. It's not a drama to dry stuff so I always have.

There are some warnings against mildew, and tents get a bit of a funky odour to them as they get older. The same thing happens to wetsuits if they're not dried properly. Salt water prevents mildew but stuff can still get stinky if left damp.

This from a paraglider manual:

If the wing is wet or even only damp when being packed, it should be fully dried as soon as possible. Storing the glider damp can lead to permanent damage.

and this

How should NOVA wings be stored?

Dry, not packed too tightly and if possible in a space without wide temperature variations - these are the conditions that make our paragliders feel well. You should never store a wing when it is moist. You should also avoid excessive heat, like you would have, for example, in the car. Never remove dirt using chemical detergents and/or brushes.

and this from Ozone

Your wing should be dry before being packed away. Always store all your flying equipment in a cool, dry room, protected from direct heat. Moisture, heat and humidity are the worst elements for damaging your glider. Storing a damp glider in your car in the sun will lead to premature ageing of the cloth and should be avoided at all costs.

PS My philosophy has always been that gear is a consumable item. Take good care of it, work it hard, wear it out, get new stuff.

I was being cheeky DJ opening the can of worms. Your one design is built from different material. A wing using that material would weigh too much.
wet = mould that is why you should dry them before putting in a bag. I let mine dry out in car out of bag
They are built as light as possible so are fragile. Every time I get hit by a large wave I have had damage. Best outcome was the leash snapped which saved the wing. I will detach if I am caught inside by big waves again then start paddling.
Yes the foil does the most damage. Sand trapped in the canopy does a lot of damage as well Wings last at least 2 years possibly longer I believe before you will notice performance decline. Similar to kites.

Never rinse sail cloth (e.g. dacron, as opposed to the mylar laminate of some windsurfing sails) with tap water:
- The chlorine will slowly destroy the resin that holds the threads together, the cloth will then "bag" more under pressure and also will leak leak air pressure through the cloth, reducing efficiency.
- mildew can set in unless stored perfectly dry
- drying is tricky: drying in the sun or worse, flapping in the wind, will destroy it quickly

If you avoid abrasion (sand in bags), it could last quite long until the resin breaks by normal wear. On pre-mylar Windsurfing sails, it was about 6 months. The decrease in performance is minimal however, and most noticeable in the higher wind ranges. Only racers felt the need to change their sails every 6 months.

As PaulK says in forums.sailboatowners.com/threads/dacron-sail-lifespan.61278/

The cloth in dacron sails, which is what it looks like you have, tends to last a long time. If you look up the actual type of plastic (polyester? polyethylene?) that it is on an EcoNazi website, you'll see that it probably takes 150 years to decompose naturally. What happens BEFORE it decomposes is that it stretches. Sailmakers don't want cloth to stretch, because then it loses the shape they (and you) want it to have. To keep the sail from stretching, they use special "high modulus" woven cloth, they arrange the panels of the sail so minimize the stretch factor, they use stronger (heavier) cloth than they might otherwise, and they use cloth that has been treated with a resin coating that "fixes" the threads of the fabric so they don't move - much like a hair stays immobile after it dries in your last coat of varnish. What happens is that the sail luffs, making cracks in the resin each time you tack, and the cloth stretches a little. The halyard gets pulled extra tight on a windy day, and the cloth stretches a little. You head off to a reach before the crew eases the sheet, so the sail's pulled in too tight and it stretches a little. The breeze picks up above what the sail was designed to handle, but the harbor's only 10 minutes away, so it stretches a little. The sail still "looks" fine; the cloth could be made into shirts that would last 50 years or more. It's still relatively clean, and it still pulls the boat. Sails made out of burlap would pull the boat too. People don't use burlap if they can avoid it because it stretches a lot and wears out too fast. (Woven plastic grain bags -- is it polyester? Hmmmm. -- are better than burlap because they don't stretch as much and last longer than burlap and many other natural-fiber cloths.) If you're racing, the stretch after pehaps two hard seasons in SFO Bay might be enough to have a noticeable effect on your results. A boat like yours but with new sails might beat you every time. If you're cruising, you probably won't notice that it takes you four minutes longer to get from A to B than it would have if you had new sails. And you probably wouldn't care. Until they start to chafe through, get worn out and frayed, they'll work. 20-year old dacron sails will still work. So would sheets of plywood. It's a question of what you want in the way of performance and how much you want to balance that with cost. and pu

So:

-Sand is bad (abrasion)
-Storing wet with fresh water is bad (fungus,rot etc...)
-Tap water is bad (chlorine)
-Drying in sunlight is bad (UV decomposition).
-Drying in wind is bad (flapping,stress points)
-Drying by hanging indoors is bad (bladder shift)

I think that i will keep throwing them in the bag wet from seawater...seems to be the least bad option.

Gorgo said..
I have been washing wetsuits and stuff in chlorinated water since the 70's. I have noticed no degradation of fabrics in that time.

Wetsuits and garments do not have the resin to keep the threads in place, on the opposite you want them to stretch!
It is the resin that gets damaged, not the threads.

And as said in my post, for sailcloth you will not see the degradation with the naked eye. The actual fibers are not damaged, they just move around a bit, and the air can go through them, that's all. You are only losing a small fraction of the performance.

Clamsmasha said..
Wetsuits degrade if not rinsed in fresh water because the salt crystals shred the cells in the foam. They go downhill very quickly if you dry them salty....that's how you make beef jerky.

Plus they get this unique aroma...
I hate it when funky wetsuit guys sit upwind in the lineup