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Newbie in Wingfoil

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Created by Fatben 4 months ago, 22 Oct 2023
Fatben
57 posts
22 Oct 2023 9:55PM
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Hi guys ,

Fatman from France, I have been doing board sports for over 20 years, 2/3 years of windsurfing, 20 years of longboard surfing and for 3 years I have only been doing SupSurf and SupTouring.
I would like to take up Wingfoiling for windy summer afternoons and the winter period where here we more often have wind than good surfing conditions.
I would like to come to you for some advice and feedback on how to equip myself.
I am 1m89 and +/-110kg and I plan to practice Wingfoil only (no surf foil or Supfoil) and to start on Lake in conditions which generally run between 10 and 20 kt.

For the board I'm hesitating between 2 models:

- F-One Rocket Wing V2 6'6 x 31' and 140 liters
- Kalama E2 6'6 x 30' and 139 liters

I can get them at the same price, the F-One is new without a board bag or rail saver (2021 model I think) while the Kalama is used (maybe negotiable a little) but in like new condition with the rails installed saver and board bag. The F-One is a Bamboo/fiber sandwich construction, the Kalama is a PVC/Fiber sandwich.

For the Foil I will go on an Axis:

- Mast Alloy 82cm 19mm
- Fuse 685 Shorts
- BSC1120 or 1020 Front Wing
- 440 Gravity Stab

For the Wing, I am going to start with a 6m? single wing but I don't know which model to choose, I have been advised several models:

-Duotone Unit V3
-Duotone Slick
- Cabrinha Mantis V2 or V3
- North Nova light wind
- North Nova Wing V2


So there you have it, if you have any advice or feedback on this different equipment, tell me what will be good or not for me, I am open to all advice and information!!!

Today my biggest questions concern the board, which one to choose knowing that a priori the board is the element that we evolve and that we change the most quickly in WIngfoil.... The F-One m has been recommended a lot, much less the Kalama but in France it is a much rarer model...
And above all which Wing model to choose, for my size, my 100% Wingfoil practice (on the flat) and a beginner level, I would like something of good quality, solid and if an old version on sale that would be even better.

Thanks a lot for your help !!

martyj4
494 posts
23 Oct 2023 6:39AM
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Gday Ben,
Firstly, if you've windsurfed before you are highly likely to pick up wing skills very fast. My experience with teaching newbies is windsurfers pick up good wing skills within 20 mins. Non windsurfers can take a few hours. I also reckon get a wing that suits your height. So wings with big wingspans are difficult to use if you aren't tall enough. I'm 175cm tall and can use a 5m but it's not ideal for me. A 4.5 is right. I'd imagine a 6m would be good for you as you're significantly taller than my shortass. I've used Duotone Units and Slicks and love both. Have also used other brands that have the floppy handles and I find they're really poor for control and getting max return when pumping. I'd highly recommend hard handles or a boom. Booms are great if you've come from a windsurfing background.
I think those board volumes are probably good for you. Keep in mind if you learn in sloppy conditions (current and or lots of chop on the water surface), extra volume can be very beneficial. I think the length being well over 6ft is also good for not burying the nose when trying to get up and flying. Shorter boards have a little less stick, but when learning, you'll be trying to get your stance right to match the board volume, so a little extra length can be beneficial.
As for foil choice, I've been teaching with the BSC 1060. If you're moving into light winds, then the 1120 might be a good one for the lower end and learning and you being a bigger person than many I have taught. You'll lose a bit from the top end. The 440 freeride tail is just super for stability. It's my go to when I'm trying to master a new faster foil or shorter fuse. It locks things in and helps with control. The 500's are a little more stable, but not as free or fast. The mast will be good for learning. If you're not going in shallow waters then the 82cm is a good length.
As for fuse, well this is a hard one to recommend. Just me, but I'd be inclined to start with a standard length as it will be more stable for learning foot switches and transitions. It won't turn as fast but when learning, this has rarely been a problem. You'll master it quicker, but it might slow down the learning curve later. If conditions you are going to learn in are likely to be difficult (sloppy chop/currents/gusty winds) then maybe orientate to easier gear to use that might not have the top end you want later on. If money is less of an issue you can always sell off the learner stuff and upgrade later.
Good on you for getting onboard.
Hope it goes well.

mitxval
39 posts
23 Oct 2023 9:50PM
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Hi and welcome to the wingfoil world :)
For your weight, in the 10-15kn, range I would even consider a 6.5m or even a 7m (like the Duotone Ventis).
The board volume you mention make sense. I don't know the foils you mention, but they seem pretty small for a beginner.
Usually people start with something above 1500, just my thoughts :)

Fatben
57 posts
24 Oct 2023 12:10AM
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Thanks a lot guys!!!

So as for the board, whether it's the F-One Rocket Wing V2 in 6'6 x 31' and 140 liters or the Kalama E2 in 6'6 x 30' and 139 liters it's all good!!! Here in France we find a lot of F-Ones and Kalama is a much more confidential brand but I admit that the manufacture of the Kalama in PVC/Fiber Sandwich would reassure me a little more than the Bamboo/Fiber Sandwich of the F-One and I think that with my weight and my supports the Kalama could be more robust!?
If any of you know these 2 boards and can give me your opinion, I'm listening!!

For the Foil, I am in the right direction with this Axis Aluminum in 82cm, short mast and BSC1120 and 440 Gravity Stab.
Mitxval the BSC1120 wing is 2102 cm?.

For the WIng mini 6' maximum 6'5 but I don't want to take bigger. I will continue to look at the models, to start I would like to stay on a reasonable budget because I suppose that when you start, the risks of piercing the Wing are greater!?
For you, I must favor hard handles or booms rather than soft wrists!?
So I'm going to look at the Duotone, North, Neilpryde, Cabrinha but even on sale these are very expensive wings...
I was recommended the Takama RS which can be found at very good prices, what did you think??

sbm
19 posts
24 Oct 2023 3:29AM
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I'm the same height as martyj4 above and I started out with a 6.5m wing and although I prefer using smaller I found the 6.5m no problem once you know what you are doing with the wing.

I also windsurfed for many years and its really quite intuitive with many crossover skills.
Stronger wind is your friend when learning, until you experience getting up on foil and finding the right foot/ foil location etc. and 6.5m is my most used wing. Bigger foil will help your initial learning speed but you will likely look to size down quite soon after but depends on you ambition I guess. In stark contrast small wing small foil may take a long long time before you have any idea what you need to do to get on foil. At least thats my experience.

martyj4
494 posts
24 Oct 2023 4:05AM
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mitxval said..
Hi and welcome to the wingfoil world :)
For your weight, in the 10-15kn, range I would even consider a 6.5m or even a 7m (like the Duotone Ventis).
The board volume you mention make sense. I don't know the foils you mention, but they seem pretty small for a beginner.
Usually people start with something above 1500, just my thoughts :)


Mitxval, the Axis number is about width, not area. The BSC's have a pretty thick leading edge so will generate a lot of lift which is good for getting up and going, but they will have a slower top speed. Think the BSC 1060 is 1800cm2. You'll be good with either of them Ben.

sunsetsailboards
432 posts
24 Oct 2023 5:34AM
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perhaps someone here can advise whether the Axis foils you are getting pair well/better with the Kalama and/or F-One boards? Pretty important. I don't have the answer. I'd use the answer to this to pick the board.

Goofcat
239 posts
24 Oct 2023 11:19AM
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I would say you're not going wrong with either board. Since both are used, see which is in better shape. Your beginner board is something you need but out grow quickly. So buy with resale in mind.

As for wings, I love North, they have nice long handles. The light wind would be my choice. Coming from a windsurfing background, you might like the boom Duotone wing.

As for foils go BIG! you want early and easy flight because nothing can replace time on foil for learning.

Fatben
57 posts
25 Oct 2023 2:21AM
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Otherwise on board there may be a way to find JP X Winger IPR ( 6'5 x 31' and 145 liter ) or Tabou Pocket Air 137 ( 6'2 x 30' and 137 liter ) at a good price ...Maybe newer and better models (construction) than the F-One Rocket Wing V2 ( 6'6 x 31' and 140 liter ) and the Kalama E2 ( 6'6 x 30' and 139 liter ) ??

Fatben
57 posts
25 Oct 2023 5:06PM
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I'm also offered a new Naish Over Ultra carbon at a great price, it's 6'6 x 33' and 140 liters, what do you think compared to all the boards I've seen, good, suitable, solid? ??

DavidJohn
VIC, 17395 posts
25 Oct 2023 9:43PM
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Fatben said..
I'm also offered a new Naish Over Ultra carbon at a great price, it's 6'6 x 33' and 140 liters, what do you think compared to all the boards I've seen, good, suitable, solid? ??


Great board and a good choice IMO

Fatben
57 posts
25 Oct 2023 7:03PM
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- F-One Rocket Wing V2 ( 2021 ) 6'6 x 31' and 140 liters
- Kalama E2 6'6 x 30' and 139 liters.
- Naish Over Ultra Carbon 6'6 x 33' and 140 liters.
- JP X Winger IPR 6'5 x 31' and 145 liters.
- Tabou Pocket Air 137 6'2 x 30' and 137 liters.

I have the choice between these 5 boards almost all at similar prices, if for you there is one or more models that are really better, tell me, I would really like to find a model very adapted to my weight/height, which is of good quality (with the weight I suppose that it is necessary to have a very solid top at the dents) and which can accompany me as long as possible in my progress Thanks for your help !!!

SODAV
10 posts
26 Oct 2023 12:02AM
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Fatben ha detto..
- F-One Rocket Wing V2 ( 2021 ) 6'6 x 31' e 140 litri
- Kalama E2 6'6 x 30' e 139 litri.
- Naish Over Ultra Carbon 6'6 x 33' e 140 litri.
- JP X Winger IPR 6'5 x 31' e 145 litri.
- Tabou Pocket Air 137 6'2 x 30' e 137 litri.

Ho la scelta tra queste 5 tavole quasi tutte a prezzi simili, se per voi c'? uno o pi? modelli che sono davvero migliori, dimmi, mi piacerebbe davvero trovare un modello molto adatto al mio peso/altezza, che sia di buona qualit? (con il peso suppongo che sia necessario avere un top molto solido alle ammaccature) e che possa accompagnarmi il pi? a lungo possibile in Grazie per il vostro aiuto !!


Fone

gorgesailor
596 posts
26 Oct 2023 1:14AM
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RE: The Takuma RS. These are powerful Wings with good Carbon handles. Durability has been good, Weight is reasonable. I would say compared to newer Wings they have less top end control - they get back handed when overpowered & they don't flag off the LE handle quite as well as the best. However they should be available at a good price & I have seen several heavier learner/intermediate do really well on them due to the solid power... I would go for the 6.1 if you do.

patronus
316 posts
26 Oct 2023 1:42AM
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Select to expand quote
Fatben said..
- F-One Rocket Wing V2 ( 2021 ) 6'6 x 31' and 140 liters
- Kalama E2 6'6 x 30' and 139 liters.
- Naish Over Ultra Carbon 6'6 x 33' and 140 liters.
- JP X Winger IPR 6'5 x 31' and 145 liters.
- Tabou Pocket Air 137 6'2 x 30' and 137 liters.

I have the choice between these 5 boards almost all at similar prices, if for you there is one or more models that are really better, tell me, I would really like to find a model very adapted to my weight/height, which is of good quality (with the weight I suppose that it is necessary to have a very solid top at the dents) and which can accompany me as long as possible in my progress Thanks for your help !!!


Pick the board whose track positions relative to carry handle is most like a big volume Axis board, as most likely to suit your foil

Fatben
57 posts
26 Oct 2023 4:10PM
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patronus said..

Fatben said..
- F-One Rocket Wing V2 ( 2021 ) 6'6 x 31' and 140 liters
- Kalama E2 6'6 x 30' and 139 liters.
- Naish Over Ultra Carbon 6'6 x 33' and 140 liters.
- JP X Winger IPR 6'5 x 31' and 145 liters.
- Tabou Pocket Air 137 6'2 x 30' and 137 liters.

I have the choice between these 5 boards almost all at similar prices, if for you there is one or more models that are really better, tell me, I would really like to find a model very adapted to my weight/height, which is of good quality (with the weight I suppose that it is necessary to have a very solid top at the dents) and which can accompany me as long as possible in my progress Thanks for your help !!!



Pick the board whose track positions relative to carry handle is most like a big volume Axis board, as most likely to suit your foil


Very good point Patronus!!
If any of you have Axis foils with F-One, Kalama or Naish boards, tell me if they fit together well.
I think I'm going to go on one of these 3 boards (Rocket Wing V2 or Kalama E2 or Naish Over Ultra Carbon).

For the Wing, the Takuma RS in 6.1m? could be a good possibility because it is currently on sale at a very good price.

Fatben
57 posts
29 Oct 2023 1:47AM
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For the board I found my happiness with a Naish S26 Over Ultra carbon of 6'6 x 33' and 140 liters.
I would like to buy an Axis foil with an 82cm 19mm aluminum mast and start with a BSC1120 front wing and a 440 gravity stab.
For owners of this type of Foil Axis see even of Foil Axis on Naish board, what fuselage would you recommend to me?? Standard, Advance, Advance +, Red, Black and what length???
Thank you for your feedback and help!!!

martyj4
494 posts
30 Oct 2023 5:19AM
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I haven't used an advanced fuse Ben, but from those who I've talked to, they are harder to use than the normal fuses.
The front foil you are intending to use is a red fuse compatible one. Dont get a black fuse as it won't fit with the BSC 1120. If you get a standard length red, you can make it more manouverable by putting a smaller rear foil on. If you go with a short red, it will make the setup less pitch stable which will make learning more difficult but later on, manouverability will be better. Again, i'd keep it simple and stay away from Advance for the time being.

Fatben
57 posts
31 Oct 2023 1:40AM
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Thanks for the information Martyj4 !!

I'm going to go with a standard model, I think it will be "simpler" to start with...

For the board, that's it, I just ordered it, it will be a Naish Over Ultra Carbon in 6'6 x 33' and 140 liters, according to the findings I found on it, it's a very good board for start and progress, quality and solid, I found it new at a very very good price so I didn't hesitate too much.

For the Wing, to start I was advised to take a Wing with a soft handle, this would avoid a lot of problems (impact with the board) to start!?
If you know of good 2022 or 2023 models in 6m? for a height of 1m89 and +/-110kg in soft handles, give me the models!!
I saw the Smik V2, do you have any feedback/opinions on it??

martyj4
494 posts
31 Oct 2023 4:44AM
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I have a windsurfing background so booms are my preference. I have used the hard handles and find them similar to the boom for performance. The hard handles/boom option gives me stacks more control over the wing. You can twist the boom as well as when you pump it, the action transfers power immediately.
I've used the Smiks amd North as well and while they have a soft handle, it's been OK. There's a lot of stiffness in it, and while not as good as the hard handle/boom option, it's not quite as good in my opinion.
The handles I would steer clear of are the ones which are the soft loops. I've used these a few times before and I find them terrible for control compared to the other options. When pumping these wings you will see when you pull in, the handles take up a bit and when you exhaust the wing (reverse of the pump) your hand moves towards the wing by 3-4cm before anything happens. So there's this region of a few cm, where your arms are moving and the wing is doing nothing before the loop takes up.
I've been using booms and hard handles since day 1 and am yet to ding my board with the wing. Not to say it can't happen, but I don't consider it a big risk.

martyj4
494 posts
31 Oct 2023 4:47AM
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Sorry the Smiks would be a good option. The canopy's are great. As I said the only thing that takes away is the soft handles, but these are pretty stiff in the smiks. A 6m would be a good starting point.

RAF142134
317 posts
31 Oct 2023 10:22AM
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Fatben, I really enjoy the Duotone Unit, it's light, pumps well, handles well, good allround power, pretty good handles, the valve can get dirty/leaky but overall a lovely wing

Fatben
57 posts
31 Oct 2023 10:04PM
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Thanks guys so the Smik V2 and the Duotone (I had seen the SLS) are quality options for my future 6m? wing.

gorgesailor
596 posts
1 Nov 2023 7:26AM
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Fatben said..
Thanks guys so the Smik V2 and the Duotone (I had seen the SLS) are quality options for my future 6m? wing.


The Takuma handles will not ding your board easily - they have no sharp corners.... As others have said if you chose soft handles the long tight ones are better than short loops IMHO...

Fatben
57 posts
1 Nov 2023 4:15PM
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gorgesailor said..

Fatben said..
Thanks guys so the Smik V2 and the Duotone (I had seen the SLS) are quality options for my future 6m? wing.



The Takuma handles will not ding your board easily - they have no sharp corners.... As others have said if you chose soft handles the long tight ones are better than short loops IMHO...


Could you give me an example of a wing with a short handle that you would not recommend and an example with a long handle that you would recommend more??

Fatben
57 posts
1 Nov 2023 4:15PM
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gorgesailor said..

Fatben said..
Thanks guys so the Smik V2 and the Duotone (I had seen the SLS) are quality options for my future 6m? wing.



The Takuma handles will not ding your board easily - they have no sharp corners.... As others have said if you chose soft handles the long tight ones are better than short loops IMHO...


Could you give me an example of a wing with a short handle that you would not recommend and an example with a long handle that you would recommend more??

Fatben
57 posts
4 Nov 2023 2:31AM
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There are good promotions on the GA Wing Cross 22, are any of you people who own it or have tried it, any feedback??
At 6'2 to start it could perhaps be suitable?? Maybe better than the Takuma RS or Takoon V2....

Fatben
57 posts
2 Dec 2023 7:07PM
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I will need your advice on purchasing 2 WIngs to complete my equipment (Naish Over Ultra Carbon 6'6 and 140 liters, Axis Alu 19mm BSC1120 / Freeride 440)
I'm going to take Wing Smik V2 but I'm a little hesitant about the sizes to take....
I am 1m89 and +/- 110kg and I would like to have the most suitable Wings to be able to cover a wind range from 8/10 knots to max. 25 to 30 knots max.
Either I take a 5m? and a 6m? or a 6m? and a 7m? knowing that according to Smik's table the 5m? is given for 12/25 knots, the 6m? for 10/20 knots and the 7m? for 7/15 knots.
I would like these 2 Wings to be compatible without having "holes" between one and the other or being too out on the street whether in weak or strong wind.
So if some of you have feedback on these Wings and their rigidity, power, behavior in low and strong winds and you can give me their opinion that would be really cool!!!!

THANKS !!!!

boardsurfr
WA, 2171 posts
3 Dec 2023 1:45AM
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Two wings for 8 - 30 knots is pushing the limits. Chances are you'll add more sizes later.

Whatever advice you are looking at, keep in mind that it is typically for guys around 80-90 kg. Wing size goes linear with body weight, so to get the same power as an 80 kg guy on a 6.0, you'd need an 8.2 m wing.

Fatben
57 posts
8 Dec 2023 2:54AM
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Well I think my choice is made, in the end I'm going to go with 2 Smik V2 wings, a 6m for "light" wind and a 4m for "stronger" wind. I hesitated between 6+5 or 6+7 but a 7m was not recommended for me to start with and then a 5m would have been too close to the 6m, according to all the feedback I got, ideally you need between 1.5m and 2m maximum between two wing sizes. I will start like this and I will see later to complete with another size of wing or to evolve my foil with a smaller and more efficient front wing.



Fatben
57 posts
8 Dec 2023 2:54AM
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Well I think my choice is made, in the end I'm going to go with 2 Smik V2 wings, a 6m for "light" wind and a 4m for "stronger" wind. I hesitated between 6+5 or 6+7 but a 7m was not recommended for me to start with and then a 5m would have been too close to the 6m, according to all the feedback I got, ideally you need between 1.5m and 2m maximum between two wing sizes. I will start like this and I will see later to complete with another size of wing or to evolve my foil with a smaller and more efficient front wing.





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"Newbie in Wingfoil" started by Fatben