rod_bunny said...

weiry said...

theDoctor said...

My bet would be that every digger you ask would tell you themselves that their mates died in vain

My bet would be that every digger that read that Sh!t would knock you out

My father and father in law are both long term career military men (army & navy) - retired, both are veterans of Vietnam. One of my best mates is a loadmaster with the RAF, currently in and out of Afghan, Iraq, Libya you name it - also a veteran of the Bosnian war. My Grandfather was a WW2 digger, his twin brother died in the war.

All have many many mentals scars that just refuse to heal.
All have diagnosed PTSD (Except my mate, the RAF wont diagnose him as they need the 'resources')
None go to the marches.

None are married anymore.
All the extended family have PTSD.
I dont speak with either of my sisters or my father. My brother in law and his wife have a tepid relationship with his dad.


I have spoken with my father(s), Grandfather etc - without shadow of a doubt
all their mates/brothers died/injured for government war games played out in comfy offices.




Many men go to war, some dont come back, none come back as the same man that left. The damage to and destruction of the serving person is carried back to the family and the people around him.

That is well put. Lord knows how many men/women will come back from Afghanistan with undiagnosed mental trauma. I think the Defence forces resources will be overwhelmed and will be unable or unwilling to adress this.

I am not opposed to Anzac day per se' but I do think it should be about a warning of the futility of war, especially those that were essentially canon fodder for the fat cats in high places (re - Churchill).
Its more about Empire building than any pretence to freedom or threat to our way of life.

weiry said...

Ados said...

Its more about Empire building than any pretence to freedom or threat to our way of life.

you have to remember our very strong link with great Britten in the Early days, god save the queen was our anthem up to the 60s
as for threats go
What do you think the japanese where trying to do in WWII, they would of murdered us all, like every country they invaded. thanks to the so called chocolate solders of Kokoda . absolute fecken hero's in my book.
those men did NOT die in vain if it wasn't for their ultimate sacrifice there would be no australia as we know it.

Great first quote Mark.

Im with you Weiry.
Anzac day is not about celebrating the futility of war that is a given that war is a horrible waste of life. It is also not about the political motives that took us to war. Remeber the soldiers didn't choose to go they were sent by government in reaction to actions that were deemed to be a threat.

It is about remembering the people who made sacrifices . It is about celebrating the country we have and the history and sacrifices of the military and civilians who died, toiled, went without and through enormous meantal pain to help us get here. There deeds made the basis on which the country you live in was based. No doubt.

It is ridiculous that people see this day as a chance to attack war, it just shows that they lack any empathy or idea on how they got here. And is just plain disrespectful to those who have gone before them. I didn't see any people at the dawn service celebrating, was a very somber mood of reflection and thanks.
And I'd like to see some of these opinions put to a digger, he would clean you up, for no other reason than mateship, another trait that our country likes to use to define itself. Also a trait that was built through war.

So put your head down close your eyes and think for a moment. Not about politics or your own views On war but the massive personal sacrifice that these young men and woman made for our country and you tell me your not proud of what they have done, would you have left you're life as a 19 year old to go to war?

At the going down of the sun and in the morning we will remeber them, lest we forget.

SP said...

weiry said...

Ados said...

Its more about Empire building than any pretence to freedom or threat to our way of life.

you have to remember our very strong link with great Britten in the Early days, god save the queen was our anthem up to the 60s
as for threats go
What do you think the japanese where trying to do in WWII, they would of murdered us all, like every country they invaded. thanks to the so called chocolate solders of Kokoda . absolute fecken hero's in my book.
those men did NOT die in vain if it wasn't for their ultimate sacrifice there would be no australia as we know it.

Great first quote Mark.

Im with you Weiry.
Anzac day is not about celebrating the futility of war that is a given that war is a horrible waste of life. It is also not about the political motives that took us to war. Remeber the soldiers didn't choose to go they were sent by government in reaction to actions that were deemed to be a threat.

It is about remembering the people who made sacrifices . It is about celebrating the country we have and the history and sacrifices of the military and civilians who died, toiled, went without and through enormous meantal pain to help us get here. There deeds made the basis on which the country you live in was based. No doubt.

It is ridiculous that people see this day as a chance to attack war, it just shows that they lack any empathy or idea on how they got here. And is just plain disrespectful to those who have gone before them. I didn't see any people at the dawn service celebrating, was a very somber mood of reflection and thanks.
And I'd like to see some of these opinions put to a digger, he would clean you up, for no other reason than mateship, another trait that our country likes to use to define itself. Also a trait that was built through war.

So put your head down close your eyes and think for a moment. Not about politics or your own views On war but the massive personal sacrifice that these young men and woman made for our country and you tell me your not proud of what they have done, would you have left you're life as a 19 year old to go to war?

At the going down of the sun and in the morning we will remeber them, lest we forget.

I guess Anzac day means different things to different people. Despite the 'lest we forget' we are still sending our young men to die in war.

I can see exactly where Loggy is coming from,
I get cheesed off when celebrities like Kochie and Krudd talk (almost boasting) about they have "done" the Kokoda,

bull$hit!! they went for a walk. OK, it might have been a bit hard- but I didnt see them slogging along in a pair of steel shod leather boots, carrying a pack full of ammo and food- or a rifle.
If Kochie or Krudd got sick or injured, they can whistle up a chopper and be in a hospital in a couple of hours- or less.
No having to worry about when they walk into an ambush (apart from a well scripted camera interview)
Our soldiers were there for the duration (if they survived.)
Wannabe "celebrity" hikers are there for a photo opportunity.

We owe our service personnel, and our allies past and present, a huge debt that we can hardly hope to repay.
At least show them respect without turning it into a ratings or vote catching photo op.

Stephen.

all i know is when i hear the last post being played at the dawn service....i cant stop blubbering. i am filled with pride,thankfulness and sadness

log man said...

Mark _australia said...

hey redthumbs person, show some guts and reply. maybe you think we should not have provided assistance to the UN feeding Somalia?

Even better front up to a digger and tell him his mates died in vain.

That would be way better than redthumbing on a forum

Love the way you bring in the UN......and a huge fan of the UN aren't we Mark. And by the way, Yes our troops did die in vain.....in Vietnam, Baghdad, Korea. And I think if you know any returned servicemen and women that saw their friends killed most of them(that I know) say it was a waste of life.

Except Tony (the mad Monk) Abbot that said (I quote) "shyte happens"

Just watched Gallipoli (doco taped from SBS last week)

The last letter had my wife and I in tears.

Not because poeple died, or the horrors of war etc... just because no one should ever have to contemplate, let alone write such heart rending questions.


"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"
"Only the dead have seen the end of war."
George Santayana



Lest we forget - the humanity.
Lest we forget - the futility.
Lest we forget - the waste.
Lest we forget - ...