Im a tradesman and ,so I have been told , that some of us do the odd cashie, not me of course as I am a model citizen ,
and have people often offer to pay cash after the job is complete.
My question is, if you ask for a tradie to do a cashie for you, do you expect to pay his normal hourly rate but no GST, or
do you expect to pay less per hour and no GST as you are paying cash?

What I think a cashie is(as a tradesman) seems to differ to a few people.
Just interested what most people think/expect?

PS cashies and mates rates are 2 different things

But if the consumer is saving coin by not paying tax,which the tradie dosent get anyway as it is passed on to the gov,
the consumer wins,
not really any difference to the tradie,he has already paid tax on the materials which have been past onto the customer.
the tax man is the only one that suffers.
So the tradie dosent really get any big savings by not charging the G,well maybe a little, but Im talking about the small 1 or 2 hour jobs,,not building a complete house.
Which avoiding tax is illegal and no one should do.
Just found it intersting as if I ever did a cashie(which I would never do...cough cough) it would have been at a slightly reduced rate and no G.

But speaking to some fellow tradies,,they say usual hourly rate but no G as a cashie means cash so no tax.They said I was crazy dropping my hourly rate as well as no G........um..if I were to ever do it.

GPA said...

I pretty much agree with Formula Nova...

Also depends on the size/cost of the job...

At the very least I expect to save on the GST... but will also be looking for a modest discount on the work given the tradie is not paying ANY tax.

I am looking for them to make a fair dollar profit and me to make a reasonable saving. Again - it's all about achieving the Win/Win formula.

Having said all of that, if the tradie has done me a favour by attending to the job promptly or the job has proved to be a lot more difficult than anticipated, or he's worked his nuts off in the heat, I might throw in a $50 or half a carton as a thank you... never know when you may need them again.

Ahhhhh ..we love you guys that throw in a few beers,,
you get priority over other customers jobs

Yeh ,, this is interesting,,

so even though the customer is saving by not paying the G, they feel they should save more as the tradie is winning more.

I would ,if I ever did a cashie, do it as a reduced rate,,but

Isnt the tradie taking a risk being caught not charging tax so should get the better saving for taking the risk of hiding where the materials he has bought went to??The customer is still wining.
^^^That was the question bought up at the tradie meeting.....um..well...at the pub.

lotofwind said...

Yeh ,, this is interesting,,

so even though the customer is saving by not paying the G, they feel they should save more as the tradie is winning more.

I would ,if I ever did a cashie, do it as a reduced rate,,but

Isnt the tradie taking a risk being caught not charging tax so should get the better saving for taking the risk of hiding where the materials he has bought went to??The customer is still wining.
^^^That was the question bought up at the tradie meeting.....um..well...at the pub.

I hate to be the only one relying to you but...

What risk? If you give a tax invoice, you will probably write it up. If you don't give a tax invoice, you will not 'remember' the job.

You can buy your materials for personal use or you can buy it at normal retail prices if you want, as you are still going to pass on the material costs to the customer.

Doesn't sound like too much of a risk does it? The only risk I have heard of is making sure that you have enough legit work to make it look like you don't spend all of your time in the pub.

Me personally, if I figure you are going to get your income 'tax free', I want a fair discount. Other people have a different approach. Ultimately if there is a shortage of tradesman, you can ask what you want, and if there is a shortage of work you might have to ask for a little bit less to get the work.

lotofwind said...

GPA said...

I pretty much agree with Formula Nova...

Also depends on the size/cost of the job...

At the very least I expect to save on the GST... but will also be looking for a modest discount on the work given the tradie is not paying ANY tax.

I am looking for them to make a fair dollar profit and me to make a reasonable saving. Again - it's all about achieving the Win/Win formula.

Having said all of that, if the tradie has done me a favour by attending to the job promptly or the job has proved to be a lot more difficult than anticipated, or he's worked his nuts off in the heat, I might throw in a $50 or half a carton as a thank you... never know when you may need them again.

Ahhhhh ..we love you guys that throw in a few beers,,
you get priority over other customers jobs

If you pay the bill there and then,make a coffee or an icy cold drink, then we will remember and seem to fit you into that busy schedule pretty easily,we also remember those customers that keep forgetting to pay on time. you wont save anything because next time we do a job for you we will charge accordingly

GalahOnTheBay said...

Never mind discounts for cashies.

I'd be happy to find a tradie that charges the going tax invoice rate and in return actually turns up within a few hours of when they say they will...

Maybe you need to supply more beers

Yeah,nothing worse taking time off work,or even worse,missing time on the water to meet someone who doent turn up.
A phone call is not hard to make if tied up on other jobs.

I've never been big on doing cashies, I know I can make more on my overtime rates guilt free with less hassle.
I don't mind paying cash to others at their full rate without a receipt if I don't need one, what they do with it afterwards is up to them. I think it's just as important to be a good customer as it is a service provider. Once you find someone that does a good job treat them like royalty.

Just remember, it's not the customer who gets audited by the ATO

When being audited by the ATO you are guilty until proven innocent and still guilty after they have been dragged kicking and screaming to that admission(a rare and unlikely outcome).

If they suspect you are doing Cashies then they can make an "Assumption" on the amounts they believe you are receiving and even though this assumption may or may not resemble reality you will still have a sizable tax bill which could end up going back a few years.

With the GST only the customer wins, you're the one who cops a kicking from the ATO for tax evasion.

Regarding Hourly rates, do you think your customer would he drop his hourly rate for half a day at work?

First time I work for someone job is invoiced, no ifs buts or maybes. I dont know them yet and dont know how long there going to take to pay. If they become repeat business (and have passed the attitude test) and they want to pay cash I may knock 5% off. Only really do it for small jobs like under a grand. Other wise you end up with a heap a cash in the house that the wife finds and thats worse than the ATO finding it.

if i'm doing domestic job i often charge cash for labour but i always invoice materials on a job. you can only write so much off as 'stock'
i only ever give a 10% discount for cash (as in no gst) but domestic clients are happy with anything. its not like they can claim the gst back, they have to wear it anyway.....

Your doing the job you determine how much u want to get paid before u even start?

im a carpenter and before i even get out of my car i know how much im gettin whether its cash or not! Its very hard to bargin with someone once you have finished the work especially when there is alot of stingy narks out there

Many of the million dollar mansions are built with a large CASH component in the contract. It seems if you want the cream of the tradesmen you HAVE TO pay cash. No discount!!

Its sorta on topic....


We once did some corporate video work for the ATO. After a film shoot one day, my cameraman went up to the ATO guy, and jokingly offerred to do a better rate for cash! The look on the ATO guy's face was priceless!!!

Suffice to say that the following year, we got audited.................

Pizzes me right off when tradies ask for a cashy (NOTE - they suggest it not I) and act as though they are being generous by knocking off 10%!

Yeh - right skeezbag. I save 10% (on the price no doubt already upped by 10%) and the skeez likely saves 20-30% or more. Who is getting the sweet deal exactly?

No invoice, no record or garauntee on works etc that way. Should be 20% off for customer minimum if they wanna play that way IMO.

Have knocked back a few tradies who have suggested it, as their work and attitude have sucked from the get go, then they pull the "I can do you a favour for cash and knock 10% off" (before they have told me the end figure - should be in real estate or used cars!!).

Makes me feel like reporting the fks that pull that one to the ATO. No I haven't but have been VERY tempted by some of the lazy opportunistic skeezes![}:)]

Good workers with good attitudes a differant cuppa tho.

kk said...

No I'm not misinterpreting the meaning of "CASH" formula man. They are talking about the folding stuff, I know cause I have to compete against it as a builder that doesn't get those deals.

There's a whole different world out there that most never see

Yeah, okay. I guess you are right. I am surprised that they would willingly put something in a contract that is illegal in itself. There is nothing wrong with paying in cash, but if its implied that there is no record of it, no tax invoice, and no tax, then I am not sure you would put it into a contract.

The ATO would see that and go after the contractors and the person that wrote the contract.