That's a similar sensation to doing a back loop. (although webber had slightly more control than I)

The Lotus braked earlier and Webber closing speed was 10-15kms better than Lotus. Webber never said that Haki was to blame. The footage really dosnt show the full picture of what happened.

mkseven said...

pweedas said...

That looks like just plain old BAD driving.
There were only two cars, his and one other, and all he had to do was drive around it.
That's drive around it. NOT over it.

great in theory but at 300km/h?

Yes but that's what is supposed to make a good racing driver, rather than just the average hack that can negotiate the Saturday morning shopper carpack without writing off the family Commodore.
You can't make your good driving dependent on what the guy in front does because for a multitude of reasons he may not do what you would like him to do, or are expecting him to do.
Somewhere in the preceding few seconds to that impact, he made a bad decision, which by definition makes it bad driving.

I might add that I see exactly this sort of thing every week down the freeway.
Clowns following 2 car lengths behind the car in front at 100kph, rain hail or shine.
And every so often I come upon the inevitable results., a multiple rear ender and a 5 km long gridlock.

pweedas you cant even begin to compare racing with everyday driving.

Racing is so safe because drivers do know exactly what the other was doing and which line they are taking and at what point they will brake.

Webber screwed up by staying in the slipstream a bit too long, then it seemed like neither knew what the other was doing. Heikki stuffed up by braking in a position that gave webber no room. Unlucky for both but that's racing.

mkseven said...

pweedas you cant even begin to compare racing with everyday driving.

Racing is so safe because drivers do know exactly what the other was doing and which line they are taking and at what point they will brake.

Webber screwed up by staying in the slipstream a bit too long, then it seemed like neither knew what the other was doing. Heikki stuffed up by braking in a position that gave webber no room. Unlucky for both but that's racing.

I agree, and I don't compare the two. But what is the same, is the accurate assessment of risk.
The fact that such a severe wipeout happened indicates that someones risk assessment was faulty.
Either Heikki stuffed up by braking unnecessarilly early or late and too hard, or Webber stuffed up by mis-reading the situation.

Heikki was in front and making driving decisions which he thought would keep him there. He has the right to do that so unless his decision was to purposely brake in such a manner so as to cause Webber to crash then it is hardly his fault.

Webber was behind and making decisions which he thought could put him in front. He has the right to do that so long as if the planned action failed, the backup plan cannot be to drive over the guy in front.

They were both lucky that the consequences were relatively light. It could well have been much worse.

I watched the race, Webber is a better driver in a faster car, the Lotus team are at the bottom and Red Bull are at the top of the game. Webber ended up behind the other car after he pitted for hard tires, when he tried to pass, the other guy blocked which he admitted to doing because he didn't want to lose his race position. The problem with that is he was never going to stay in front of Webber, the general thought from those a lot smarter than any of us in F1 is he should never have blocked a much faster Webber. It'd be different if there was not much in it between them like the guys up front.

(Racing is so safe because drivers do know exactly what the other was doing and which line they are taking and at what point they will brake) Exactly that's why no one would have expected the clown in the Lotus to turn in front of a much faster Webber

If he had any nutz he's be on 2 wheels like Stoner instead of playing slot cars.

Maybe he should go play soccer.

lucky the car didn't catch on fire during the crash.

he would have been a webber bbq then.

Are there any stats on Webber crashing? He just seems to crash ...so often. For a while there it seemed predictable.

after it flipped it landed luckily on front, cushioning the force, then it landed on rollbar.

had it landed on rollbar first can't believe he would have survived without serious injury.

I think the arguments about avoiding accidents go out the window because "its racing".
By definition you are pushing the limits of the car and your skill to try and get to the front.
If you drove safely they whole way through the race then nobody would ever pass and the starting positions would be the finishing positions (excluding mechanical breakdowns).
If you are pushing your limits then a certain amount of crashes are to be expected.

Kind of like learning a new move when windsurfing, your first attempts as loops will inevitably end up in a crash.

doggie said...

evlPanda said...

Are there any stats on Webber crashing? He just seems to crash ...so often. For a while there it seemed predictable.

And gearbox problems, in the past I always thought it was his fault but the RBs havnt had that problem this year.

Not saying he's a bad driver, obviously the guy is 100x better than I could ever hope to be.

It's just that I can't think of anybody that has done so many back loops, or crashed on first corner as much as Webber, or had as bad luck.

elmo said...

The RB's still have reliability issues, the race before last MW was put back 5 grid places as the had to replace his "Suspect" gearbox before the race.

The joys of pushing the limits of technology and development

Thats because they found metal filings in the g,box fluid

yeah dog gears are pretty rough usually.
There's always a magnetic plug in a racing gearbox, that's one of the first thing you look at when they get serviced... a bit like the engine one, it gives you an idea of what to expect during the strip!

"Not bad for a number two driver"