j murray said...

how long will extraction of aussie ore and minerals last.....20- years only

No problem because there will be new ways to extract stuff from deeper & bigger holes, new processes to extract that last little bit.

The gold mining industry has been through the tailing heaps how many times now with more modern techniques?

We could start fracking to release more gas, there will be lots of disgusting ways to extract that last ounce

As the resources run out the price will go up & make it worthwhile to dig where it's currently not viable.

If Australia didnt have mining right now, we would be in the gutter. Many many more jobs would have been lost, no one would have been buying Australian then either.

Yes we would & we would be ok because we would have developed other industies, like manufacturing, we didn't bother because we took the easy short sighted way, easy money, big profits but no real future for the country

If you are going to sell something make it worthwhile or wait

SomeOtherGuy said...
Agree, they're entitled to a good return. But always remembering that the stuff they are digging out of the ground belongs to the people of Australia not to the miners. It's our stuff so we're also entitled to a good return as well. All of us. So if the prices soar, why shouldn't the people of Australia be demanding a share of that for OUR investment?

It actually belongs to the people of the state it is mined (atleast according to the constitution). And the mining companies already pay royalties to state governments.

FilthyAmatuer said...

SomeOtherGuy said...
Agree, they're entitled to a good return. But always remembering that the stuff they are digging out of the ground belongs to the people of Australia not to the miners. It's our stuff so we're also entitled to a good return as well. All of us. So if the prices soar, why shouldn't the people of Australia be demanding a share of that for OUR investment?

It actually belongs to the people of the state it is mined (atleast according to the constitution). And the mining companies already pay royalties to state governments.

And the states and territories are part of Australia aren't they? The mining companies are increasing their prices on the stuff they dig out. So why shouldn't the people of Australia increase their prices to mining companies? You can call it a royalty, a tax, a fee or whatever you like but why should the end result not be increased income for the nation?

@Panda... Unfortunately not. The state owns the resources. If the state grants a tenement over your property, the holder of that tenement has the right to exploit the resources. The government gets its royalty.

The rates vary for each commodity, and even different classes of commodity. You may recall recently the WA government removed the royalty discount for Pilbara fines (iron ore)... this did 2 things, it increased the royalty to something like 8% (from just under 6%), and it blew a $2B hole in the federal labs budget... and then there were tears from the children in Canberra.

@SoG, ummm, it's a percentage... it increases as well!

BHP Billiton has made an announcement today which will get those with an eye on the green going, licking their lips, wondering what they could spend it on!

We must also remember that it was the mining industry that proposed moving to a profits-based tax, not a product-based tax. Unfortunately, Kev and Ken got this so bady wrong by saying "we're gunna slug the hell out of you, and ain't nothing you can do about it". As it turned out, the mining companies had bigger muscles, and deeper pockets, and the RSPT went the way of the dinosaur, and kev and ken, as the case was...

There is a lot to be said for stakeholder consultation.

Enter mining tax mk II (MRRT), and this time the labs decided consultation is a good idea... Enter Don Argus, the former head of BHP Billiton. Unfortunately for the labs, they cocked this up as well, and the MRRT ended up biased towards the major miners, and for this reason, they will struggle with getting it in as well...

Should we all benefit from resources wealth - hell yeah... we do already! And clearly there is scope to increase those benefits... Engage the stakeholders, and ask them nicely... I find it works much better... Push me, and I will resist

From Mining News... Something more to add to the success list of the labs...

Miners pay more, not less, tax

FINDINGS from a recent survey have contradicted claims made by the federal government that mining companies don't pay enough tax for using Australia's mineral resources.

Last year, federal Treasurer Wayne Swan claimed mining companies paid 27% in taxes including state royalties and company taxes in 2008-09, which was down from an average tax take of 55% recorded from 1999-2000 to 2003-04.

“The amount the Australian community charges mining companies for our non-renewable resources has fallen from one dollar in three of profit for the first half of the decade, down to one dollar in seven today,” Swan said in a treasurer's economic note from May of last year.

However a Deloitte Access Economics survey commissioned by the Minerals Council of Australia has revealed that taxes levelled at mining companies have actually increased marginally over the past two years.

According to the survey, total taxes increased from 40.6% in 2008-09 to 42.2% in 2009-10.

“The tax take has not fallen to the low levels cited in last year's mining tax debate,” the survey said.

“This is particularly the case when a wider view is taken of the mining tax take to include company tax as well as royalties. Rather, the fluctuations over time seem mainly to be cyclical in nature rather than evidence of any persistent trend.”

The report is based on the survey of 21 major coal and iron ore mines with combined annual revenues from minerals production in Australia in excess of $1 billion.

snip...

The story continues with some stuff about the RSPT and MRRT...

The report is exactly what it says it is... A survey of 21 major coal and iron ore mines with combined annual revenues from minerals production in Australia in excess of $1B, has shown that the tax percentage paid in 2009-10 was 42.2%.

So, these nasty "big corporations (that) have turned "tax reduction" into an art form", still had to pay 42.2% tax...

Believe what you like. It's OK, I believe in leprechauns. However, I think it unlikely that an independent auditor such as Deloitte will be any less independent then (say) treasury or Ross Garnaut and his climate change review...

"After all who's going to bite the hand that feeds them and produce a report that doesn't put the right slant on the numbers ????" --> probably not treasury and the climate change review

^^^ Of course it is hot air... The hot air is then taken to Canberra, a hot air budget is generated, and it is used liberally and excessively on projects such as a CEF or NBN or TLA (three letter acronyms) or OFA (errr, other fudging acronyms)...

log man said...

Where's my frikken soap box when I want it!!!

It was nationalised, and is being used to prop up a three-legged chair in Altona.

You'll have to wait your turn.

patsken said...

....and obviously you believe in "commissioned" reports by "independent auditors" that tell you that these miners that were surveyed actually paid 42.2% tax when they are trying to move opinion on a tax increase.

The opposite to you. I give a little weight to independent reports. A lot of the information will be available in the company Annual Reports, which are public documents. I do not recall seeing any supporting documentation for any of the Treasury figures presented by the labs. Indeed, the labs have now told so many fibs, that their credibility is dubious, at best.

Remember that auditors audited the banks in the US that went arse up a couple of years ago too.

err... O K ... Great... Relevance

Don't get me wrong, I know that mining has helped create a reasonably strong economy in Australia and that they probably do pay a somewhat large percentage of tax (I do think some can pay more though). But when you post headline grabbing survey results like that printed in The Mining News I would expect you to realize that they have an agenda - just like the government with their figures - and if you have a look I said that I would only be a "little" more inclined to believe the gov figures.

Yes. Of course. The Minerals Council of Australia has an objective, to bring some checks and balances to the political spin.

I can see that you don't believe in man made climate change...

Errrr... O K... Actually, you are wrong... As an earth scientist, I have not reached a conclusion - this issue is too complex to make rushed decisions, and is now mired by politics, and "beliefs" based thinking, rather than detailed scientific analysis.