watched Insight on S.B.S last night 8.30pm about potential rise in sea level.

when i say potential, they were talking like it's already here!

i have not noticed a mm of increase in the nearly 30 years i have lived in oz.

Mark Morano......if sea levels are rising due to global warming, nobody bothered to tell sea levels.

Tides vs sea-levels are different things...a bit like climate vs weather. Estimated sea level rise approx 800mm by 2100...CMA are already taking that into account and requesting that floor levels in new homes along coastal affected areas (alongside coastal inlets/flood areas) be increased 800mm!

I might have to agree with you on this one petermac! The evidence isn't conclusive, and from what I've been told (from a qualified scientist that produces coastal hazard assessment reports), the projections aren't correct, and are there to add to the hype that is 'global warming'.

our local corruption, i mean council want to make us raise the floor level of the new home we proposed to build (after knocking down the old one) a whole 1600mm above ground level. they call it the 100 year flood clause or some other bull sheet.

theDoctor said...


our local corruption, i mean council want to make us raise the floor level of the new home we proposed to build (after knocking down the old one) a whole 1600mm above ground level. they call it the 100 year flood clause or some other bull sheet.

One of the local shires have introduced the 800mm increase in floor levels...but they've maintained that a 7.5m height restriction (from natural ground) must be adhered to?!?

Sailhack said...

theDoctor said...


our local corruption, i mean council want to make us raise the floor level of the new home we proposed to build (after knocking down the old one) a whole 1600mm above ground level. they call it the 100 year flood clause or some other bull sheet.

One of the local shires have introduced the 800mm increase in floor levels...but they've maintained that a 7.5m height restriction (from natural ground) must be adhered to?!?

Same up here. We also have to raise the floor for habitable areas by 800mm, and get no relief from the overall height restriction which is measured above "natural ground".

JB

the reason we haven't heard from the dutch is that all their fingers and toes are being used to plug the holes in their dykes and they have no way of typing or calling a friend

Going back to school, year11, i did an assignment on global warming.

I remember writing a few paragraphs how the effects of global warming vary through out the globe,
Australia will be one of the last, and least to be effected by rising sea levels,
but our agriculture will be vastly effected. i.e Longer Droughts, Our four seasons will barely be recognised for their weather characteristics

So perhaps the rising sea levels are already here, just not as severe in oz.

Ditto-ocean finds an equilibrium balancing earths gravity, moon.
Why on earth would it go up a meter in the Maldives and nothing here?

j murray said...

conspirator theory.....#1... govt is exhausting fixhimup. after high tide and

bigga storm haction, so easy fix, make him u fixum, build him land up littlebit

long one. Gub mant fella him catchum lotta moola from poor fella little bloke.

That fella him been livum longa ribba, him bin makum allfella housy pad, dwbly

tic an novtha one too, all country homeland longa ribba heap long way prom

big fella water whole. Gottim catchy youfella..........

Hey wat for you bugger come my cumtry allalong time now, hu bin causy dis

. not like old time fella wen we altogether one own him lot [}:)]

gee-better lay off the laughing juice a bit mate. I put that into Google Translate and it comes up with "nonsensical".

petermac33 said...

watched Insight on S.B.S last night 8.30pm about potential rise in sea level.

when i say potential, they were talking like it's already here!

i have not noticed a mm of increase in the nearly 30 years i have lived in oz.

Mark Morano......if sea levels are rising due to global warming, nobody bothered to tell sea levels.

Can we all re-read the last thread before we write it again?

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=58878&whichpage=2&SearchTerms=climate

I think continuing any debate with someone who believes that the new Woolworth's logo is a sign of the coming of satan is somewhat pointless

ADS said...

ginger pom said...

petermac33 said...

watched Insight on S.B.S last night 8.30pm about potential rise in sea level.

when i say potential, they were talking like it's already here!

i have not noticed a mm of increase in the nearly 30 years i have lived in oz.

Mark Morano......if sea levels are rising due to global warming, nobody bothered to tell sea levels.

Can we all re-read the last thread before we write it again?

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=58878&whichpage=2&SearchTerms=climate

I think continuing any debate with someone who believes that the new Woolworth's logo is a sign of the coming of satan is somewhat pointless

Here we go again, taking the piss...
Bit of tolerance and respect of others opinions is what is needed from the warmist side of the debate hey Ginga

I think maybe a "going away and reading the material" is required from the denial side of the debate...

It is not a debate. It is not a question of whether single mum's deserve welfare or war veterans deserve more respect....

It is something that either is or is not happening and something that can be answered by evidence....

How do you measure sea level rises / falls

Last time I saw it the sea was a big wobbly bumpy thing that keeps moving about.

I guess you could percieve a trend, but how do you measure to mm accuracy.

And if you calculate a rise is that calaculation just taking a rise in temperature x thermal expansion of water + ice melting = rise ?

Because surely as the water volume increases the ocean capacity gets bigger, so a volume change isn't a liner conversion to a level rise. Last time I looked the beach shelved, it wasn't a vertical cliff.

In which case how do you calculate the increase in capacity of the ocean as the volume increases to get a depth change ? Surely nobody has measureed the worlds coastlines and surveyed the grades to come up with a number. Especially as alot of it is under an ice sheet that you can't see, but will become ocean when the ice melts.

If on the other hand somebody has travelled the entire coastline of the world and surveyed the beach grade, could I get a copy of the file ? Reckon it may be useful for finding nice lefthanders in a few years time.

And I would sure like to meet them and ask for a job.

Negative: Some of our reef breaks won't break at all, some will need bigger swell to work (cos they will be deeper)

Positives: when some of those pacific islands are covered over with water they will be like giant bombies and will have awesome waves peeling off them

Glass half full vs glass half empty

Be positive

Carantoc said...

How do you measure sea level rises / falls

There is a standard, the Australian Height Datum (AHD). It is based on the mean sea level. This is the standard datum for all survey elevations in Australia. It is a statistical thing. I don't know if there is actually a physical datum somewhere but anyway following changes in the mean seal level should be a simple business of analysing records.

As for calculating the rise, I don't know if that can be done accurately but aerial (space) photography gives a surprisingly accurate picture of the three dimensional shape of coastlines so I dare say a clever bit of programming and a computer with a bit of grunt could give a reasonably accurate picture of the volumes involved.

Carantoc said...

How do you measure sea level rises / falls

Last time I saw it the sea was a big wobbly bumpy thing that keeps moving about.

I guess you could percieve a trend, but how do you measure to mm accuracy.

And if you calculate a rise is that calaculation just taking a rise in temperature x thermal expansion of water + ice melting = rise ?

Because surely as the water volume increases the ocean capacity gets bigger, so a volume change isn't a liner conversion to a level rise. Last time I looked the beach shelved, it wasn't a vertical cliff.

In which case how do you calculate the increase in capacity of the ocean as the volume increases to get a depth change ? Surely nobody has measureed the worlds coastlines and surveyed the grades to come up with a number. Especially as alot of it is under an ice sheet that you can't see, but will become ocean when the ice melts.

If on the other hand somebody has travelled the entire coastline of the world and surveyed the beach grade, could I get a copy of the file ? Reckon it may be useful for finding nice lefthanders in a few years time.

And I would sure like to meet them and ask for a job.

There are satellites and measuring stations all over the planet. Basically you measure the height of the sea level (either by using a float, ultrasonic device, or radar) as often as you can, and then average the readings over time. This method is surprisingly accurate, and can give you down to sub-mm accuracy. The secret is lots and lots of data that can be averaged.

As for beaches shelving, it's a matter of scale. About 67% of the world's surface is ocean. And 33% is land. If the sea level were to rise a metre or two, even if the beaches all shelved, you'd still have about 33% of the world's surface being land. If you were really generous and said that we'd lose 1% of the world's land then your sea level calculations would be only 1% off.

Personally I give more credibility to scientists with their armies of technicians, measurements and peer review, than some crackpot sites on the internet.

But maybe that's just me

A discussion on whether group 1 metals react with water is silenced by dropping all the group 1 metals into water and watching. Wouldn't take long.

A discussion about sea level rising is finished by evidencing sea levels are rising.

If I listened to the cleverest 'scientist' 500 years ago I would have burnt my Grandmother for being a witch, and not believed that sea levels were rising because all the water would spill over the edge of the world.

I don't doubt sea levels are rising. Stand on a hill above the ocean and look at the geography. The sea used to be higher up the land. Go diving underwater, the sea used to be futher out.

I don't doubt some (betwen 0.1% and 99.9%) of this rise is caused by man-made factors. One being the increase in kiters in the water. If the average kiter weights 80kg, and just floats and there are lots of them in the sea (which there are) then the sea has risen.

I am sure you need to be more accurate than 1%. If the ocean volume increase by 1% I think this would translate to more than 800mm rise.

Satellites are not fixed. They all wobble. The atmosphere changes and radiowaves are affected by it. Satellite measurements to mm accuracy is only possible with comparision of their measurements with known locations. AHD is the mean sea level in 1970, as taken by several stations around Australia and traversed by dumpy level. There are closure issues with this traverse. The world is not regular. AHD is fine on comparativly small grids and is always based on a local control point. Go traverse these control points today, you would get a different closure than in 1970. I think the traverse was 2,000km from memory. I once traversed a level 12 km. That was far enough for me.

Sea level is a function of many things, tides, sun, moon, shaoling, atmospheric pressure, ocean currents. All of these I can see in the bath, magnify them for the ocean. A rise (or fall) could be due to any of these.

My point is I don't believe the hype. Or the sensationalism. The things I believe are the things I can see and touch. Even this may not be true as I have been conditioned to see and touch in a certain way.

For 1,500 years the western world was conditioned to see and touch God. People truly believed they could see evidence for God all around them, and in some ways this makes sense.

Since 1641 we have been conditioned to see science, and the evidence for science is all around us. I believe in science, probably with the same conviction my great-great-great relatives belived in God, and for exactly the same reasons.

I try to learn from the past, so I don't brand people heretics for not believeing the fashionable ideas of the times.

I don't believe we can measure long term sea level rises on a year by year basis to very much accuracy.

I don't belive pumping millions tonnes of concentrated chemicals into the atmosphere, sea or ground is a very smart idea. It will have consequences. The consequences may be good or bad. They will not be good for everything, they will not be bad for everything.

Scientists or journalists (journalists being the modern world's conditioners as the clergy were the conditioners in the past) sensationalising anything makes me believe only one thing - I shouldn't listen to them.