Forums > Kitesurfing Foiling

Small low volume foil board

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Created by horey69 4 months ago, 18 Jul 2019
DukeSilver
WA, 292 posts
13 Oct 2019 2:23PM
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bigtone667 said..

DukeSilver said..
My new 112cm pocket board. I made a few mistakes throughout the process but all in all I'm happy with end result. It rides really well. 2.10kg. Bunnings XPS foam, fibreglass and epoxy hand lay up (no vac bag). I painted the board with water based acrylic spray can prior to putting down the final epoxy finishing coat. The paint bled into the epoxy while it was being applied and it didn't dry flat - more of an orange peel texture. Next time I'll just tint the epoxy itself. Already planning my next, shorter board build. It was a much trickier process than I had expected. Kudos to the home builders out there who make those production quality boards.







Great looking board.


Thanks BT. Appreciate the compliment.

horey69
QLD, 295 posts
14 Oct 2019 6:25AM
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Duke,
That looks great, I'm really enjoying the small board too. Feels so much more part of you on the water.
Horry

DukeSilver
WA, 292 posts
14 Oct 2019 6:48AM
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horey69 said..
Duke,
That looks great, I'm really enjoying the small board too. Feels so much more part of you on the water.
Horry


Cheers Horey. Yes it's crazy how different foiling feels on this board compared to my Dwarfcraft 54". I was dubious as to the effect the reduced swing weight would have, but it's true. I can carve a much tighter turn and it feels effortless. 360s are much easier too. I'm pretty keen to start another build soon. Maybe a 105cm.

AquaPlow
QLD, 767 posts
14 Oct 2019 2:45PM
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DukeSilver said..

pretty keen to start another build soon. Maybe a 105cm.



G8 looker.. congratulations..
eager to hear more..
plus couple of tips and tricks U learnt for the next one..
Cheers
AP

KIT33R
NSW, 1659 posts
14 Oct 2019 4:40PM
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Just finished this board and taken it out for its maiden voyage. I'm happy to say it floats and fun to ride.
Built from 2 layers of marine ply and a third half-length layer.3.2 kg. Glued up in a rocker gig using expanding urothane glue. Painted with 2 pack urethane undercoat and 2 top coats of gloss urethane. The holes for the mast base were drilled oversize, filled with epoxy and chop mat then drilled again as 8mm. Similar for the front hook. I put on a layer of epoxy fibreglass around the nose since this is an area that receives a bit of abuse.






DukeSilver
WA, 292 posts
14 Oct 2019 4:58PM
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KIT33R said..
Just finished this board and taken it out for its maiden voyage. I'm happy to say it floats and fun to ride.
Built from 2 layers of marine ply and a third half-length layer.3.2 kg. Glued up in a rocker gig using expanding urothane glue. Painted with 2 pack urethane undercoat and 2 top coats of gloss urethane. The holes for the mast base were drilled oversize, filled with epoxy and chop mat then drilled again as 8mm. Similar for the front hook. I put on a layer of epoxy fibreglass around the nose since this is an area that receives a bit of abuse.







Awesome. Great looking board. Good job with the finish too.

Pilz
WA, 27 posts
14 Oct 2019 6:32PM
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DukeSilver said..
My new 112cm pocket board. I made a few mistakes throughout the process but all in all I'm happy with end result. It rides really well. 2.10kg. Bunnings XPS foam, fibreglass and epoxy hand lay up (no vac bag). I painted the board with water based acrylic spray can prior to putting down the final epoxy finishing coat. The paint bled into the epoxy while it was being applied and it didn't dry flat - more of an orange peel texture. Next time I'll just tint the epoxy itself. Already planning my next, shorter board build. It was a much trickier process than I had expected. Kudos to the home builders out there who make those production quality boards.







Looks good mate..

Pilz
WA, 27 posts
14 Oct 2019 6:41PM
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Latest build turned out pretty ok..

DukeSilver
WA, 292 posts
14 Oct 2019 8:27PM
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Pilz said..






Latest build turned out pretty ok..


Man I wish I could build them like that. What a smooth finish! Great job. Is that the one you were riding today?

Pilz
WA, 27 posts
14 Oct 2019 9:12PM
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Yes was riding it today..

TomW059
183 posts
26 Oct 2019 5:58AM
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I've made a bunch of boards. Multiple in sizes 135,120,110,105,90 cm. Different bottoms with rounded spoon, double concaves, rail bevels. Pads and non slip decks without pads. Tried concave decks and flat deck.
Tested them all with same moses 633 wing.
Started with foothooks, but went strapless 2 years ago.
Tried different nose rockers like a J, and Banana rocker like groove or Ketos boards.
Simple rounded spoon with inverted rails is easiest to build and don't notice any difference to double concave and beveled rails, which is more complex to make.
Non slip deck is cheaper, lighter and gives best feeling and easy to move feet around.
Flat deck is also most predictable and easier to build.
Swing weight VS ease of use 105-110 is best. No huge benefits to go to 90cm, but big difference between 135-120cm.
So after these builds and testing :
105-110cm, banana 100mm rocker, flat non slip deck without pads, rounded bottom with inverted rails, 25 mm thick balsa or foam core.
Mast plate mounted 50-70mm from tail, way back.

Let me add that outline and width is important and part of the magic design elements during water start, touch downs and when you dance around on the board. So outline has more impact on performance than you may realise.

Kraut
VIC, 482 posts
26 Oct 2019 6:40PM
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Always been using 130-135 strapless when learning and even then thought that's heaps long. Not been kiting for a couple of years but keen getting back into it. I am only 70kg and 176cm so for cruising around slow/mid speed, should I go 100 or 115? What will the disadvantages of a 100 be? More nervous, more sensitive to weight distribution? Or simply relevant when touching down and water start? In which case I would not care less as on most larger foils getting right up wasn't a real challenge. Thanks for any recommendations from the more experienced

Kamikuza
QLD, 4545 posts
26 Oct 2019 7:19PM
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Kraut said..
Always been using 130-135 strapless when learning and even then thought that's heaps long. Not been kiting for a couple of years but keen getting back into it. I am only 70kg and 176cm so for cruising around slow/mid speed, should I go 100 or 115? What will the disadvantages of a 100 be? More nervous, more sensitive to weight distribution? Or simply relevant when touching down and water start? In which case I would not care less as on most larger foils getting right up wasn't a real challenge. Thanks for any recommendations from the more experienced



IMO most relevant at the bottom end of your rideable wind range for the kite.
The difference (for me) between getting up and riding back to the beach because it's too light ... and floating back. I refuse to use bigger kites though...

So I'd go for 100 if I was you.

TomW059
183 posts
27 Oct 2019 3:02AM
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DukeSilver
WA, 292 posts
27 Oct 2019 8:20AM
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NIce. I really like your board builds Tom.

emmafoils
81 posts
27 Oct 2019 4:27PM
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Select to expand quote
Kraut said..
Always been using 130-135 strapless when learning and even then thought that's heaps long. Not been kiting for a couple of years but keen getting back into it. I am only 70kg and 176cm so for cruising around slow/mid speed, should I go 100 or 115? What will the disadvantages of a 100 be? More nervous, more sensitive to weight distribution? Or simply relevant when touching down and water start? In which case I would not care less as on most larger foils getting right up wasn't a real challenge. Thanks for any recommendations from the more experienced


Definitely go with the 100, especially at your weight. Most experienced foilers I talk to end up wishing their board was smaller. It will feel more "nervous" for the first 15 minutes which is really you getting used to a more "maneuverable" board. It's great that you are strapless......straps or hooks on small boards just don't look right (in my opinion).

warwickl
NSW, 1285 posts
27 Oct 2019 8:24PM
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I am not convinced about how important the board is , compared to other foiling activities.
I agree that in SUP foiling the board design is critical.
I just use an old skim board for kite foiling that is low volume and was very cheap.
A friend made a board out of ply from Bunnings.
We are just every day guys so that may explain it.
But why spend big $ on a board when spending on the foil is way more beneficial?

Kamikuza
QLD, 4545 posts
27 Oct 2019 8:00PM
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warwickl said..
I am not convinced about how important the board is , compared to other foiling activities.
I agree that in SUP foiling the board design is critical.
I just use an old skim board for kite foiling that is low volume and was very cheap.
A friend made a board out of ply from Bunnings.
We are just every day guys so that may explain it.
But why spend big $ on a board when spending on the foil is way more beneficial?


Surface area or volume matters. My Axis Surf Carrot is 125x48-ish but surfboard outline and chunky so has a few less liters than the 145x48 Ride tombstone-shaped board.
The difference in bottom end is noticeable... But minimal. In the very marginal bottom end of wind, it's harder to get on top of the Surf Carrot (less surface area), but once on top I can ride away almost as easy. Certainly touchdowns are no hindrance.

TomW059
183 posts
28 Oct 2019 4:48AM
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Warwickl,
Perhaps you got lucky with it.
Have you tried various boards?
I found that while flying board size has a huge influence. Especially going to 120cm or under is big difference from 135cm. Other details like outline have lesser, but important influence on feel during flight and touchdown. Deck concave or flat is probably personal preference, but found it too has influence.
You don't have to spend a lot of money if you can do the building.

CJ2478
NSW, 383 posts
28 Oct 2019 8:40AM
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TomW059 said..









That's beautiful mate.

Can you share some details on materials? Woody type? Thickness? How did you do the foil inserts?

Is the leg rope plug in the nose for self rescues?

I notice that you have experimented with board length down to 900mm. What was the shortest you could go without compromising function?

Great work!

warwickl
NSW, 1285 posts
28 Oct 2019 11:27AM
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Select to expand quote
TomW059 said..
Warwickl,
Perhaps you got lucky with it.
Have you tried various boards?
I found that while flying board size has a huge influence. Especially going to 120cm or under is big difference from 135cm. Other details like outline have lesser, but important influence on feel during flight and touchdown. Deck concave or flat is probably personal preference, but found it too has influence.
You don't have to spend a lot of money if you can do the building.

I have tried a few and have 5 kite foil boards, see my profile pictures for some .
My shortest is about 125 but a bit heavy compared to my red skim board which is 135, very low volume, light and my favourite.

derek72
WA, 22 posts
31 Oct 2019 8:03PM
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I ended up deciding I am too busy to build and spoke to Mitch at carbonCo and told him what I want and he built it. After a few weeks the result arrived today and looks like just what I had in mind. I also got tracks in the bottom and footstrap inserts for learning to tack (I am learning racing) and for jumping. First ride will be this weekend but it looks awesome and feels light and rad, can't wait to ride it.






DukeSilver
WA, 292 posts
31 Oct 2019 8:09PM
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Great looking board Derek. Nice colour scheme.

airsail
QLD, 360 posts
1 Nov 2019 5:03AM
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And remember, CarbonCo uses closed cell foam for all their boards, unlike most major brands. So if you ding it, which is unlikely, no probs, won't take on water, finish your session and get fixed later.
Great Aussie made product, can't say that very often about kite gear.
I have no affiliation with CarbonCo other than getting my blanks from them for my own boards.

CJ2478
NSW, 383 posts
1 Nov 2019 7:36AM
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airsail said..
And remember, CarbonCo uses closed cell foam for all their boards, unlike most major brands. So if you ding it, which is unlikely, no probs, won't take on water, finish your session and get fixed later.
Great Aussie made product, can't say that very often about kite gear.
I have no affiliation with CarbonCo other than getting my blanks from them for my own boards.


What is the foam? PVC foam?

TomW059
183 posts
1 Nov 2019 6:20AM
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CJ2478 said..


TomW059 said..










That's beautiful mate.

Can you share some details on materials? Woody type? Thickness? How did you do the foil inserts?

Is the leg rope plug in the nose for self rescues?

I notice that you have experimented with board length down to 900mm. What was the shortest you could go without compromising function?

Great work!


It's balsa wood.
4 layers, 2,5mm hard+ 3 layers 8mm light. I can buy 100*1000 mm planks in various thickness and 3 densities.
I edge glue planks with cyanoacrylate glue, a dot every 10cm. Then I have 500*1000 " plank". If you want longer then diagonally scarf planks longer first. Then edge glue with staggered scarfs.
Stole this method from model airplane builders.

I made a rocker form from builders 100*600*1200 mm eps, covered it all around in glass / epoxy. It is light and can be used many times.

I take the 4 layers and glue them together with epoxy / fumed silica mix. I put them on the rocker form. Then the whole thing in a vacuum bag. Pull the vacuum and it presses the planks onto the form. The rocker is formed in reverse, meaning the board deck is against the rocker form. I cover rocker form in thun plastic so it doesn't stick to the wood.

Pull it out of the bag, shape it.

I use" Big Head" stainless steel M6 inserts as foil plate attachment.
I make 20mm dia solid epoxy plugs in blank before lamination. Then glue them in from the deck after lamination. I recess heads by creating depression in blank before lamination. There's many ways to do it. Even simply drilling holes through and using pan head screws from deck works, not as clean on deck though.

It sounds a bit complicated, but think it through and it's not.

I use big vacuum bag that is used for blanket storage. You can get them on eBay. Use them many times, big zipper on long side.

Biggest investment is vacuum pump, it's worth it. You can build one, but I bought a German diafram pump 15 years ago and it's 10*10*15 cm, runs continuously, quiet, no oil, built in regulator. It's actually a " lab " vacuum pump.

Leash is for self rescue, but never use it. I always make sure I'm close enough to swim in. Can always find the board later if I lose it.

I found 900mm is a compromise. In rough water starting is a hassle. Light wind too. Body dragging out, it wants to bury nose in water too much. Settled on 105-110 as best all around. I don't like to hassle with choices. I can barely notice agility difference between 90 and 110...

airsail
QLD, 360 posts
1 Nov 2019 8:42AM
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Select to expand quote
CJ2478 said..

airsail said..
And remember, CarbonCo uses closed cell foam for all their boards, unlike most major brands. So if you ding it, which is unlikely, no probs, won't take on water, finish your session and get fixed later.
Great Aussie made product, can't say that very often about kite gear.
I have no affiliation with CarbonCo other than getting my blanks from them for my own boards.



What is the foam? PVC foam?


PVC, not the XPS that Bunnings sell

eppo
WA, 7365 posts
1 Nov 2019 7:52AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
TomW059 said..

CJ2478 said..



TomW059 said..











That's beautiful mate.

Can you share some details on materials? Woody type? Thickness? How did you do the foil inserts?

Is the leg rope plug in the nose for self rescues?

I notice that you have experimented with board length down to 900mm. What was the shortest you could go without compromising function?

Great work!



It's balsa wood.
4 layers, 2,5mm hard+ 3 layers 8mm light. I can buy 100*1000 mm planks in various thickness and 3 densities.
I edge glue planks with cyanoacrylate glue, a dot every 10cm. Then I have 500*1000 " plank". If you want longer then diagonally scarf planks longer first. Then edge glue with staggered scarfs.
Stole this method from model airplane builders.

I made a rocker form from builders 100*600*1200 mm eps, covered it all around in glass / epoxy. It is light and can be used many times.

I take the 4 layers and glue them together with epoxy / fumed silica mix. I put them on the rocker form. Then the whole thing in a vacuum bag. Pull the vacuum and it presses the planks onto the form. The rocker is formed in reverse, meaning the board deck is against the rocker form. I cover rocker form in thun plastic so it doesn't stick to the wood.

Pull it out of the bag, shape it.

I use" Big Head" stainless steel M6 inserts as foil plate attachment.
I make 20mm dia solid epoxy plugs in blank before lamination. Then glue them in from the deck after lamination. I recess heads by creating depression in blank before lamination. There's many ways to do it. Even simply drilling holes through and using pan head screws from deck works, not as clean on deck though.

It sounds a bit complicated, but think it through and it's not.

I use big vacuum bag that is used for blanket storage. You can get them on eBay. Use them many times, big zipper on long side.

Biggest investment is vacuum pump, it's worth it. You can build one, but I bought a German diafram pump 15 years ago and it's 10*10*15 cm, runs continuously, quiet, no oil, built in regulator. It's actually a " lab " vacuum pump.

Leash is for self rescue, but never use it. I always make sure I'm close enough to swim in. Can always find the board later if I lose it.

I found 900mm is a compromise. In rough water starting is a hassle. Light wind too. Body dragging out, it wants to bury nose in water too much. Settled on 105-110 as best all around. I don't like to hassle with choices. I can barely notice agility difference between 90 and 110...


Fck man. Just gonna buy a production board. That's way to clever and handy for me. But kudos man, respect.

dafish
NSW, 1400 posts
1 Nov 2019 6:18PM
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This year I pulled the pin on shaping another board, and I am glad that I did. Love this little pocket board, such a great skateboard feel. Best of all, it's made in Oz. This was todays combo in 25 knots.


horey69
QLD, 295 posts
1 Nov 2019 6:31PM
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What's better than one pocket boards? Two mad creations. I love them both.




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"Small low volume foil board" started by horey69