Flat water and Greg/Patch, you guys are on the money.

Hang gliding is hardly 70's, when guys fly to 20,000' and over 700 km's in one flight. The only 70's thing here is the antagonist and that old attitude.

Some other points from a Hang gliding perspective.

All have $10 m insurance. Some locations, $20 m.
All have professional training, actually it is compulsory.
All are trained to a level satisfied by CASA.

We do not have an engine. It is law that we are able to land in any location. However as Greg mentioned they arrived with a heap of height/time.

The HGFA is a well organised federation serving over 3,000 members.

When you look at Kite board/surfing the state and National bodies have a long way to go. Let' face it, getting kiters to buy insurance is hard enough and although I am guessing, it appears that about 30% people who kite have any insurance.

For those who care. The damage to that glider is immense. Not also to mention that he was lucky not to get trapped under it, like it has happened in larger surf.

We all should be able to share. Spot on "flat water", it is a privilege to use public space.

I do really wonder if the local authorities understand how much carnage a kite can get up to and the apparent lack of sharing public land.

Tony Armstrong said...



I do really wonder if the local authorities understand how much carnage a kite can get up to and the apparent lack of sharing public land.

Tony, being a paraglider pilot myself I do not agree with you. The same attitude of "carnage" was with a handgliders as well long time ago. Same with a paragliders/paramotors.
I'm guessing, when calling local authorities you are doing the same what other people did to your sport 30yrs ago.

On insurance note, you say 3000 members for HGFA?
Well, there are around 2700 members of AKSA with paid insurance, only in WA around 700, so you are guessing wrong.

Do you fly your HG on Bali? Or Indo, PNG? I don't think any of us are paying for a public (3rd party) insurance while doing so...


There will be incidents now and than but we all need to contribute in a safe sharing.

Hi all,
Thank you to those who expressed concern on the forum for the pilot (and kitesurfer) in this incident.

All is OK with the pilot generally, cracked ribs, bruising, broken glider, and seriously lucky.

As most of you realise the incident was very unfortunate and many factors have conspired against those involved - both the Kitesurfer and the HG (Hang Glider) pilot.

I am writing this post on behalf of the local HG pilots in the Far North.

For the Record, as many of you have commented, HGs have been flying in the area and landing at 4 Mile Beach - Port Douglas (4 Mile) for over 30 years. For many reasons, 4 Mile is the safest landing zone in the area, and specifically during certain conditions (ESE to S winds), the Southern end of 4 Mile is the 'safest' landing area. HG have been landing in this spot before kite surfing was invented.

Yes, this has posed some difficulty both our sports at times, but both sports have generally been able to use this beautiful area harmoniously for many years and we hope to continue into the future through improved relations, an understand of each others sporting operations and safety needs.

To this end I post some details regarding HG operations and requirements at 4 Mile and some further insight into the incident, and how to avoid in future.

General comments re HG and landings:
• HGs land into the wind (always the preference), results in the slowest possible ground speed upon landing - safest.
• All HGs are likely to be on 'final leg' LANDING if they appear to be below 20m (approximately) and pointing into the wind. (NB, they could be landing down-wind in an emergency if they don't have the height to turn into the wind). (NB: All HG landings are an 'emergency' in that we have no motor to keep flying, so we HAVE to LAND when 'gravity' takes over.

HG Landings at 4 Mile:
• HG and Kitesurfing have shared this set up/landing area since Kitesurfing moved into the area (approx. last 8 years).
• Landing on the beach at 4 Mile has been the safest landing area for HG. It allows 'Into the wind' landings, on a wide beach and when the tide is high, the Southern end ('the point') has the widest section of beach, and is more directly 'into the wind' especially when more Southerly.

HG Circuit at 4 Mile:
• HGs usually try to adopt a 3 phase landing approach, 'Down Wind' , ' Base' leg and 'Final' leg on approach to landing. (This is similar to most aviation landing circuits).
• The HG will usually pass over the water, above 20/30m or more to the seaside (East) of the Beach, on what is called a 'Down-wind leg' of the landing phase. This can indicate to Kitesurfers that a HG is in proximity and intending to land. The HG then turn towards the beach on the 'Base Leg' (cross-wind, loosing height) where upon the HG may perform some 'S' shaped turns to loose more height until they turn/or straighten onto the 'Final leg' or 'straight in' approach height, this is usually above the Tree height.
• Then the HG will fly straight 'into wind' on 'Final' to land.
• On 'Final' the HG pilot is COMMITTED TO LANDING STRAIGHT AHEAD – INTO WIND.
• The pilot may be a little towards the sea side of the beach (to avoid trees and turbulence) and then fly parallel over the beach in a southerly heading to finally land and come to a stop. (NB: the HG may travel some meters along and just above the ground - skimming in 'ground effect' until it stops. KEEP CLEAR of oncoming HG (standing still and crouch, the HG can usually avoid you).
• NB: The more Southerly the wind, the closer to the southern end of the beach the HG pilot is required to land to avoid turbulence off the trees.
• The HG pilot will normally land to the north of the Kite surfing set up area (in front of the park) when the wind is more ESE – SE (less turbulence from trees in this direction).
• Once landed, the HG pilot can then walk the glider into the wind and into the park area to pack up.

Incident Avoidance at 4 Mile:
• Situational awareness: Kitesurfers should be mindful that HGs may be landing at 4 Mile beach any day of the Week, usually after mid-day, whenever there is a E to SE to S wind. (We both use the same winds).
• Both Kitesurfers and HG pilots need to be extremely vigilant when HGs and Kitesurfers are in proximity of each other. If you can see each other – beware!
• Kitesurfers do look up, but be more vigilant for Hang Gliders. HG are always looking down, we know where you are, but cant always predict your direction.
• In close proximity both Kitesurfer and HG should take action to avoiding collision. NB: HG may not be able to take any further avoiding action if unsafe to do so; e.g. 'on Final' to landing.
• If HG is on 'Final Leg' (At 4 Mile - flying south, into the wind, and usually below tree height), Kitesurfers should move their Kites away from the HG, fly seaward, dump or lower Kite to ground/water level. (Avoid collision at all cost, it could be fatal). Remember: a Landing Hang Glider is in an 'emergency' landing – it has no motor and IS coming down, lets make it SAFE for all.
• All Kitesurfers should be extra vigilant for HGs when near the Shore.

Safety & Local collaboration:
Both the local Hang Gliding Club and Kitesurfing school/instructors are collaboratively discussing matters following this incident. There are planned meetings to establish clearer procedures, signage, and communications to enhance the safety of spectators and participants in our respective sports, and to enable our continued operations in this area.

If people have further comment regarding this matter, please keep it positive and thoughtful for all concerned so we can all continue the enjoyment of our respective sports and keep it safe. Also, get involved in your local club or association to progress healthy debate, fun and safety.

Safe Flying & Kitesurfing.

Gorgo,
HG Pilot was in process of landing straight ahead (on final).
Did not overshoot landing, as you will see from my last post, when the wind is very South and Strong, the landing on the 'souther point' is the safest option. He was not turning back.

The HG pilot had no option but to fly straight ahead (water on the left, trees on the right), too low to turn.

The Kite dipped towards the HG, the HG collided with the lines cause the glider to turn, dive and fall.

Both in the right place, BUT both at the WRONG time (together).

incident analysis is to prevent such occurrences in the future, rather than to attribute blame.

Yeh crazy stuff...

but talkinf about hang gliding in a kite forum, sooooooo exciting, only a matter of time!

HGnq said...

If people have further comment regarding this matter, please keep it positive

To me it sounds like if there is someone coming in for a "crash landing" as you put it , there needs to be some kind of ATC at the beach .

Thanks to all of those who have provided positive comment on this topic it only helps to come up with a great solution.

On the money there hangtime!

Look guys at the end of the day who is right and who is wrong is not the point.

An Accident has happens involving an aircraft. Fortunate no one is seriously injured.

If the pilot was killed which was very likely outcome, the investigation would involve the council, police, aviation authorities, and the great media. (Yes a hang glider is an Aircraft under CASA banner in Australia)

There would only be one outcome and that would more than likely end up that neither party could use the beach ever again or any beach near it.

There is two ways things can go. Each party could hit the council and try to get the other removed. HG +30 years very regulated every pilot has insurance and a license, or Kite surfers which you hear about counsels removing them all the time. Is it worth the risk to escalate this?

Or option two we all get along and show the councils we are civil responsible organizations that take safety of other beach users as the highest priority.

I'm a para-glider pilot, Kite surfer, wind surfer, and sailor, I have no issues you guys doing your sport but remember when a kite surfer touches a hang glider or a paragliding there is a good chance that the kite surfer will kill that pilot, if not kill there 100% chance of an injury of some sort. Then it all over for everyone more so the poor pilot and his family.

I don't see the problem you see a hang glider/paraglider coming in to land you move out the way and come back 30 seconds later and everyone is happy. Is that too much to ask?

Landing is mandatory for them, not an option.

I'm glad a lot of you guys have a more level headed attitude to safety than some.

Well then the two organizations need to contact the council/land owners and one get the other banned.

That is the only way then.


I'm glad the kite surfers where we operate are much more cooperative with other beach users.

And I have added the hazard here: kitesurfing-handbook.peterskiteboarding.com/safety/hazards

Handgliders need fkn loud airhorns.
Long loud parrrrrrp would warn everybody even people sitting on the beach.

Alternativly stick a few signs up.

Possibly pilot operated rocket flares under wings send them horizontal up the coast at about 20-25m. That will clear the LZ

What happened to the footage? it was there the otherday and has now been pulled.