35-40 knots - Pftt - keep it real claimers

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bolgo
bolgo
WA
912 posts
WA, 912 posts
28 Sep 2006 1:56pm
do hyper types steer themselves to the beach??
GreenPat
GreenPat
QLD
4107 posts
QLD, 4107 posts
25 Oct 2006 3:55pm
I was at the speed strip at Walvis Bay in Namibia on Sunday the 8th of October and it was falooking strong wind chinas. I weigh 110kg and was on my 10m c-kite. I came back from the speed strip and was kiting in front of the Free Air guesthouse when I saw one of the staff walk out to the beach and take a wind speed reading. I asked him later on what speed he measured, it was 35 knots with gusts to 40. It was at sea level, obviously, and the wind was consistent from a pressure system, not frontal. My kite was not shredded and I was out in this wind for more than 2 seconds. The owner of the kiteboarding centre, Jurgen, was also out on a 7m kite, he's about 85kg. That's my claim, if you don't believe it that's up to you.
Smasher
Smasher
NSW
59 posts
NSW, 59 posts
26 Oct 2006 9:20am
My 10cents worth.

Wind speed as measured by an anemometer (hand held or meteorological) is simply the number and speed of molecules of air hitting the paddles or cups of the instrument. The more molecules or the faster they are, the faster it spins and the higher the reading.

Hotter air is less dense so less molecules will hit the paddles for a given speed of wind. Thus reducing the reading slightly in less dense air and increasing it in more dense air. IE the anemometer measures exactly the same factors that affect the kite. 20 knots measured whether hot or cold, dense or thin means X number of molecules hitting the kite at a certain speed. Thus 20 knots is 20 knots hot or cold for both the anemomenter AND the kite.

However! There does seem to be a difference in summer and winter in the pull of the kite in 20kts of wind. A possible explanation is the point at which the wind is measured. The only wind that matters to us is the breeze at kite level. This can be quite a bit stronger than the wind at sea level. For example the wind at the airport is measured at 50 feet above mean sea level.

Your hend held instrument measures the breeze at sea level. This is why the breeze at Dolls never seems as strong as the graph indicates for the airport.

Colder air is less "sticky" than hot air, so there is a grater gradient or difference in wind speed as height changes. This means that in cold air your hand held might show 20kt but at kite level there might be 25kt. In hot "sticky" air you might show 20kt and at kite level have 21kt.

Cofused? I am!
hirschausen
hirschausen
WA
422 posts
WA, 422 posts
26 Oct 2006 10:23am
(YAWN)
carbine
carbine
WA
1450 posts
WA, 1450 posts
26 Oct 2006 10:41am
yeah that theory 'may' apply if u kite with 40m lines and with your kite at 12 all the time (eg your a kook).
mahadev
mahadev
NSW
46 posts
NSW, 46 posts
26 Oct 2006 3:42pm
Yesterday two of us were on the water between 1430 and 1700 hrs. The chart below is from coffs Harbour airport which is about two kilometres from where we were kiting. The airport borders on the ocean. We were in open ocean both of us were using 13 metre venoms a V1 & V2. I was using a liquid force drop and Lee was using a liquid force element. At 79 k I was at the absolute top end just able to ride and pull off a few moves, whereas lee at about 86 kilos was doing much better. On a 10 metre Venom it would have made life a hell of a lot easier. Generally in the northeast wind the airport site is protected a little from Observatory hill. I am not going to get into an argument about this, the above stated equipment was being used at the time stated and below is the wind information. In no way do I recommend that anybody who isn't fully aware of the sorts of problems that can happen in these conditions go out in wind of this strength. It is important to remember that the stronger wind in general means a bigger the gust variation. Although we did manage to ride yesterday, you definitely go home wondering whether it was worth it.
Bob Dawson
coffs Harbour.

Unfortunately when I post the information Below the knots reading doesn't come out above the correct lot of figures. if you look at the top set of figures the knots are the two columns that start 16-21 and the kilometres are 30-39

Latest Weather Observations for Coffs Harbour
72 hours of data.
Issued at 2:40 pm EST Thursday 26 October 2006
Notes about the data in this table. | About Latest Weather Observations


Date/ Time Temp Dew Point Rel Hum Delta-T Wind Press Rain since 9 am
Dir Speed Gust Speed Gust
EST °C °C % °C km/h knots hPa mm
25/17:30 21.0 15.6 71 3.5 NNE 30 39 16 21 1014.2 0.0
25/17:00 21.2 15.7 71 3.5 NNE 35 48 19 26 1013.9 0.0
25/16:30 21.5 15.5 68 3.9 NNE 39 52 21 28 1013.8 0.0
25/16:00 22.0 15.3 65 4.3 NNE 39 54 21 29 1013.8 0.0
25/15:30 22.4 15.2 63 4.6 NNE 43 56 23 30 1013.7 0.0
25/15:00 22.6 15.1 62 4.8 NNE 43 57 23 31 1013.9 0.0
25/14:30 22.9 15.4 62 4.8 NNE 44 57 24 31 1014.1 0.0
25/14:00 23.1 15.1 60 5.1 NNE 41 54 22 29 1014.4 0.0
25/13:30 23.1 15.1 60 5.1 NNE 43 57 23 31 1015.0 0.0
25/13:00 22.9 15.1 61 5.0 NNE 39 52 21 28 1015.6 0.0
25/12:30 22.8 15.3 62 4.8 NNE 41 54 22 29 1016.1 0.0
25/12:00 23.9 15.2 58 5.6 NNE 37 48 20 26 1016.7 0.0


These observations have not been quality controlled.
Wind observations are a 10-minute average from the standard height of 10 metres.
'Dir' is Wind Direction. Direction from which the wind is blowing, reported to 16 points of the compass.
The wind gust is measured over 3 seconds.
'Tce' is a trace (< 0.1mm) of rainfall.
'Press' is Mean Sea Level Pressure. The correction from station level pressure to mean sea level pressure may sometimes use the conditions specified by the International Standard Atmosphere in the conversion process, rather than the conditions at the station at the time of the observation.
Delta-T is Wet Bulb Depression (Air Temperature - Wet Bulb Temperature). About Delta-T
'-' indicates that no data is available.

Return to top of table.
hirschausen
hirschausen
WA
422 posts
WA, 422 posts
27 Oct 2006 8:51am
(Yawn) (Fart!!) Woah!!! Get the wind meter out! I'm claiming 39!
Seriously people...let it go.
king of the point
king of the point
WA
1836 posts
WA, 1836 posts
27 Oct 2006 9:56am
Hi Gavin

Yer yer

YAWN

u will be doing a bit of that soon.

Have u found a place to store your kit.

see u in the surf OPPS ON THE NET.

HOPE ALLS WELL


Gstar
Gstar
WA
391 posts
WA, 391 posts
27 Oct 2006 11:21pm
Ooohh, I like the red kite it goes fast...

UPDATE: Mon 19/06, took her out at Scarbs again in some squalls. Spot on for kiting 30 knots plus, super stable in gusts although depower gets limited towards the 40knot mark Held onto it in one squall..literally hangin on....notice some folding, deformation in the centre of the conopy, but only breifly when the squall first approached.( no damage noted on kite following sesh,) Checked the BOM graphs when i got home...seems the kite tops out at 43 knots ...YES 43 KNOTS, THATS 80 KMH....JEEEES.(largest gust registered) Pretty happy with such a large range.....80 KMH no BS. SEE:
http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/dwo/200606/html/IDCJDW6121.200606.shtml
echostorm
echostorm
QLD
1245 posts
QLD, 1245 posts
28 Oct 2006 7:33am
quote:
Originally posted by CarlBevo



Some of the most experienced riders in australia ive seen riding in REAL 25 - 30 knots would be at their limits of fun on 5-8 mtr kites depending on their body weight

I can barely hang onto a 7 in 25-30 and i'm 75 kg and thats in survial mode (no tricks no waves just edging)




It was 25-29 knots yesterday 'real' wind (25degC), and sunseaker was kicking arse on his 14m bow, in the surf. I was having no trouble on my 12m bow either (I weigh 78kgs and I believe sunseaker weighs the same)we were doing boosts, tricks, and riding waves, but I dont consider us as 'Some of the most experienced riders in australia.' People critise bows as they give beginners confidence but for the non beginner however they are an awesome kite for heavy air, not once did I feel overpowered.
realplayer
realplayer
QLD
186 posts
QLD, 186 posts
28 Oct 2006 8:42am
quote:
Originally posted by Smasher

My 10cents worth.

Wind speed as measured by an anemometer (hand held or meteorological) is simply the number and speed of molecules of air hitting the paddles or cups of the instrument. The more molecules or the faster they are, the faster it spins and the higher the reading.

Hotter air is less dense so less molecules will hit the paddles for a given speed of wind. Thus reducing the reading slightly in less dense air and increasing it in more dense air. IE the anemometer measures exactly the same factors that affect the kite. 20 knots measured whether hot or cold, dense or thin means X number of molecules hitting the kite at a certain speed. Thus 20 knots is 20 knots hot or cold for both the anemomenter AND the kite.

However! There does seem to be a difference in summer and winter in the pull of the kite in 20kts of wind. A possible explanation is the point at which the wind is measured. The only wind that matters to us is the breeze at kite level. This can be quite a bit stronger than the wind at sea level. For example the wind at the airport is measured at 50 feet above mean sea level.

Your hend held instrument measures the breeze at sea level. This is why the breeze at Dolls never seems as strong as the graph indicates for the airport.

Colder air is less "sticky" than hot air, so there is a grater gradient or difference in wind speed as height changes. This means that in cold air your hand held might show 20kt but at kite level there might be 25kt. In hot "sticky" air you might show 20kt and at kite level have 21kt.

Cofused? I am!




to further expand on smasher, lets take two different places or seasons for instance, say one day or place is 15 degrees and another 30 degrees. thats a 15 degrees difference, rule of thumb is that for every 1,000 feet of altitude there is a 2 degree drop this is very accurate until we reach the tropapause which is average of 36,089 but we dont need to worry about that. as i was saying that is a 15 degree drop, and according to rule of thumb of 2degrees per thousand feet we have a difference of 7,500 feet worth of air density, and as we all know air density drops with altitude because of dropping pressure. and of the top of my head at 14,000 feet airdensity is half of what is at sealevel meaning at 7,500 its around about a quarter less air up there!...so when we have a difference of around 20 degrees of air temperature and we have our windmill spinning, it will only have 3/4 the amount of air at the hotter place due to less molecules hitting it making it read less, but this all depends of humidity, pressure of the day but i hope it gives you some information on the differences that can be expected
jim
jim
WA
99 posts
jim jim
WA, 99 posts
28 Oct 2006 9:04am
I am totally on the side of Carl Bevo on this topic ...Most Kiters /Windsurfers always overestimate the wind strength ...I have windsurfed and kited and it constantly makes me chuckle listening to these heroic claims ...No science here ...Just fact ...I am the nerd with the wind meter ...When someone makes an unrealistic claim on the beach I check it out ...They are ALWAYS wrong ...
andrewm
andrewm
WA
243 posts
WA, 243 posts
28 Oct 2006 9:37am
quote:
Originally posted by jim

I am totally on the side of Carl Bevo on this topic ...Most Kiters /Windsurfers always overestimate the wind strength ...I have windsurfed and kited and it constantly makes me chuckle listening to these heroic claims ...No science here ...Just fact ...I am the nerd with the wind meter ...When someone makes an unrealistic claim on the beach I check it out ...They are ALWAYS wrong ...



for total guesses I agree most people including myself probably overestimate.
If your going on real data then whos to say your right? you can only be as accurate as the instruments your using. Is your handheld windmeter more accurate then the BOMS various weather stations?

my wind meter will say 13kts on the beach but when I get home the BOM station 5km downwind and 30m high will say its 25kts.
I was out the other day totally overpowered on my 7m bow with the wind at the beach according to my meter was max 20kts. get home and BOM says its 35kts.

who do you beleive?
kite boy
kite boy
WA
354 posts
WA, 354 posts
28 Oct 2006 10:13am
hey if you can only just hold ur seven in 25 to 30 u need to sort it out i weigh 54 kg and i can hold my 9 metre waroo in 30 to 35 so yeh but if you want me to prove it come to secret harbour when it is blowing and you will see me out on a blue waroo jumping and unhooking so ill see ya soon
MarkSills
MarkSills
WA
19 posts
WA, 19 posts
28 Oct 2006 10:55am
THis topic sucks.
sunseeker
sunseeker
QLD
1203 posts
QLD, 1203 posts
28 Oct 2006 1:33pm
Hey Echo, that session was great - fully pumped. I had my 14m TD in what the BOM was saying 23 - 29kts. We kited within 1km of the wind reading instruments at sea level so it would have been close. The TD has amazing control at such heavy depower - you still have to be careful though. Awesome boosts and back rolls too without even trying.
jim
jim
WA
99 posts
jim jim
WA, 99 posts
28 Oct 2006 12:06pm
Hey Kite Boy ...I'll bring my anenometer ...30 to 35 at secret harbour ....???? In your dreams...
mattflyingaway
mattflyingaway
WA
106 posts
WA, 106 posts
23 Nov 2006 7:25am
Bradley ur full of it, dude pro riders barley hold sevens in that wind
cwamit
cwamit
WA
1194 posts
WA, 1194 posts
23 Nov 2006 8:37am
People that claim the spot was blowing this and that speeds... but particularly those 30 knots winds from readings off an internet site need a reality check... I am not saying they are always wrong. But unless you’re down the beach with a wind meter then you don’t really know the wind speed. There can be huge disparities in wind from one location to another that’s just several k's away.

Come to Esperance and ride a 12 meter in some of the 19 knot winds with up to 25 knot gusts from internet site measurements and the local dudes can watch you from the beach and laugh when you ass is hauled. Or better still come to Esperance and bring down your 9 meter and smallest board when the wind is 19 to 25 knots and have the local’s laugh some more as your doing the walk of shame back to the starting point. That’s if you can even get planning because the winds actually only 13 to 15 knots but the chop in the bay looks to be blowing the 19 knots.

In fairness and has been mentioned already the wind temp factor plays a large part as well.

But who gives a **** as long as you’re having fun. Its just claiming to be taking out big kites in high winds people are going to think your waxing the dolphin.
silviu
silviu
VIC
663 posts
VIC, 663 posts
23 Nov 2006 12:26pm
For your information, believe it or not, I've been kiting in winds that were blowing sand of the beach, spraying top of the waves like litle needles in the face (what best description for winds in excess of 30 knots), on a 6.4 m Peter Lynn ARC.
This is right I am weighting in excess of 90 kg.
On te other end of the scale, I've been riding winds as low as 10 knots, with three ARC's stacked together, something like 18 m projected area.
Tonewolf
Tonewolf
382 posts
382 posts
23 Nov 2006 1:55pm
DO NOT KEEP THIS BULL SH!T TOPIC GOING PLEEEEEEEEAAAAAAASSSSSEEEE..

HAHAHHAH
fver
fver
WA
453 posts
WA, 453 posts
23 Nov 2006 9:34pm
And me? Can I try? Uh? Can I try?

ok ok I try.

I was in 72 knots on my 50 m. There was so much wind the ocean was on the coast ... so the coast was the ocean.... and the ocean was dry.... because it was on the coast... and vice versa!

The kite was sooooooo B I G there was shade 10 km around me...


If this is not a proof! Ask my friend Paul. He saw everything!



I was edging sooooooo hard I cut the water in two pieces!
The proof? I had to change the rail of my board after the session!!!


I jumped sooooooo high I touched a Boing747!!! ...which crashed! ...Not me!


That was soooooooo great! 45 MINUTES hang time!!!!! I had time to
take photos of China!


And after, after, I landed soooo smooothly that.....


......

Kris_E
Kris_E
64 posts
64 posts
24 Nov 2006 6:25am
Hi

I lived in Perth for 1 year kiting and I must say that the wind you get down there makes you a bit spoiled!! after I came back to norway to good old gust kiting I felt just like a noob again getting ripped of the edge all the time, until I got used to the variation.
(A good day would be wind ranging from 15 kn to 25 kn, a "ok" day would be wind ranging from 5 kn to 30 kn)

I ride most of the time a 12m 05 Rhino.
I am 80 kg
The air temp. now adays is around 5-10 C.
I find the range of my kite to be from 16 kn to around 30 kn. These numbers are measured at sea level at the beach. However it startes to be uncomfertable when the wind passes 26 knots {This is a estimat}.
I have two freinds being out in 40 knots {I was on the beach and measured the wind} with a Octane 12m and a fuel 11m. I would say they where hanging on to there lives but they did fine, until the canopy of the octane ripped in mid air.

From my experiance there isnt much difference in range I would guess pretty close. However in winter (snow kiting) when the temp is -5 to -10 C one can notice that the kite can fly in less wind I have no estimate for this because it is ususlly to cold to think about it and measure, and you just wanna kite to get warm!!! :)

My comment on the air density is that 20 kn is 20 kn in cold or warm air it doesnt help on the wind meter speed (only if you have a **** thing that has a lot of friction in the bearings) I do agree that denser air should create more force but it also creates more drag!

Cheers
Kris
congo abrezio
congo abrezio
NT
285 posts
NT, 285 posts
24 Nov 2006 8:47am
OHH MAN I JUST CAME BAK FROM THIS RAD EPIC COOL SWEET AWESOME SESSION MAN IT WAS LIKE 100 - 120 KNOTS MAN SO PERFECT AND RAD MAN I WAS LIT ON MY 15M MAN!!! HOLY MAN U SHOULDA SEEN IT MAN!!!!!!! WOW I GOT WORKED A COUPLA TIMES BUT MAN IT WAS GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. THEN LIKE A BAZILLION KNOT GUST CAME THROUGH AND MAN I DID THIS BIG JUMP AND EVERYONE WAS CHEERING MY NAME AND MAN U SHOULDA SEEN IT!! BEST DAY OF MY LIFE!!
knot board
knot board
QLD
1241 posts
QLD, 1241 posts
24 Nov 2006 10:24am
This one time at the beach, it was like soooo windy that all the kitesurfers went home.

Soon after that, the windsurfers arrived.....
dan OK?
dan OK?
VIC
253 posts
VIC, 253 posts
24 Nov 2006 3:32pm
quote:
Originally posted by knot board

This one time at the beach, it was like soooo windy that all the kitesurfers went home.

Soon after that, the windsurfers arrived.....





........Drank there tea, nibbled on there scones as they decided which fluro wet suit best suited the conditions!
silviu
silviu
VIC
663 posts
VIC, 663 posts
24 Nov 2006 3:57pm
This is all ... you know what!
If most of us are too scared, and not having enough skills, knowledge and right equipment to get out in stronger winds, why don't we accept that other are "crazy" and skilled enough to do it?
But like all the threads in this forum there are trolls and trolls everywhere, and looks like I am the king of them.
Sorry Gallah, the second in charge
stamp
stamp
QLD
2800 posts
QLD, 2800 posts
24 Nov 2006 3:01pm
quote:
Originally posted by dan OK?

quote:
Originally posted by knot board

This one time at the beach, it was like soooo windy that all the kitesurfers went home.

Soon after that, the windsurfers arrived.....





........Drank there tea, nibbled on there scones as they decided which fluro wet suit best suited the conditions!


get it right dan; a pastel wetsuit with a legionaires cap is the correct way to eat a scone and dance the conga around your sailboard!
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