Mark _australia said..
^^ That is not my point. Those who wish to upgrade can.

Manufacturers should not be able design failure into a product, to do so is getting into really shaky ground with regards to consumer law.
Many people are campaigning for lemon laws - where if lots and lots or a particular product fail, they have to refund - even out of warranty. Other countries have such laws.

Then why ask the question? :D

You have proof they do that?

Kamikuza said..

Mark _australia said..
^^ That is not my point. Those who wish to upgrade can.

Manufacturers should not be able design failure into a product, to do so is getting into really shaky ground with regards to consumer law.
Many people are campaigning for lemon laws - where if lots and lots or a particular product fail, they have to refund - even out of warranty. Other countries have such laws.

Then why ask the question? :D

You have proof they do that?

Yes it is included in university design and or engineering courses.
Fairly recently, that is.....

But even if one chooses to disregard that, the continued reduction in lifespan for most consumer products is quite obvious I'd have thought. Anecdotally, we have the best tech ever, but most things don't last as long as before (ignoring phones . computers etc which are obsolete soon enough anyway. I mean whitegoods, tools etc)

Mark _australia said..

Kamikuza said..

Mark _australia said..
^^ That is not my point. Those who wish to upgrade can.

Manufacturers should not be able design failure into a product, to do so is getting into really shaky ground with regards to consumer law.
Many people are campaigning for lemon laws - where if lots and lots or a particular product fail, they have to refund - even out of warranty. Other countries have such laws.

Then why ask the question? :D

You have proof they do that?

Yes it is included in university design and or engineering courses.
Fairly recently, that is.....

But even if one chooses to disregard that, the continued reduction in lifespan for most consumer products is quite obvious I'd have thought. Anecdotally, we have the best tech ever, but most things don't last as long as before (ignoring phones . computers etc which are obsolete soon enough anyway. I mean whitegoods, tools etc)

Recently? So anything 20 years shouldn't be failing due to designed in weakness, will it?

It's pretty simple: your TV could last 100 years but a. it'd be obsolete long before then, making it worthless and b. the cost of making components that'd last so long would drive up the original purchase price...

It's obvious that people are happy to pay much less for stuff that doesn't last as long. Correction, that lasts long enough.

Your one year warranty on tv and washing machines is "designed" to weed out manufacturing etc defects. If you get through that first year, you're good to go. Stop whining.

Kamikuza said..

Mark _australia said..

Kamikuza said..

Mark _australia said..
^^ That is not my point. Those who wish to upgrade can.

Manufacturers should not be able design failure into a product, to do so is getting into really shaky ground with regards to consumer law.
Many people are campaigning for lemon laws - where if lots and lots or a particular product fail, they have to refund - even out of warranty. Other countries have such laws.

Then why ask the question? :D

You have proof they do that?

Yes it is included in university design and or engineering courses.
Fairly recently, that is.....

But even if one chooses to disregard that, the continued reduction in lifespan for most consumer products is quite obvious I'd have thought. Anecdotally, we have the best tech ever, but most things don't last as long as before (ignoring phones . computers etc which are obsolete soon enough anyway. I mean whitegoods, tools etc)

Recently? So anything 20 years shouldn't be failing due to designed in weakness, will it?

It's pretty simple: your TV could last 100 years but a. it'd be obsolete long before then, making it worthless and b. the cost of making components that'd last so long would drive up the original purchase price...

It's obvious that people are happy to pay much less for stuff that doesn't last as long. Correction, that lasts long enough.

Your one year warranty on tv and washing machines is "designed" to weed out manufacturing etc defects. If you get through that first year, you're good to go. Stop whining.

Yeah so our consumer law is all dumb and it should not eb what the "reasonable consumer expects"
It should be what Mr Kamizuka expects.

No probs.

Do some reading up on planned obsolesence and built in faults / contrived durability.

Let me show u cos if you are closed minded already i know you won't Goolge it:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence

Did you get past the first paragraph? Drop down to the types section.

Ignore the two "fashion" obsolescences, the tin-foil-hat programmed obsolescence, and look at what I assume you're moaning about--contrived obsolescence.

Entropy, bitches!

The better you manage that, the more you pay for the product...surprise! Because good design, use of quality components, manufacturing standards etc is going to increase the longevity AND the price--so you get what you pay for.

Insofar as that is your "designed obsolescence" then I've never disagreed with you. . . .

So what does it mean when you get 3 or 5 or 10 year--or lifetime!!!--manufacturer warranties?

I don't see lemon laws as protection against obsolescence, designed or otherwise. Personally, I'd be more pissed about "prevention of repairs" practices . . .

And finally, vote with your wallet. If you don't like stuff wearing out in what your expert opinion considers "too soon", then don't buy the product. Market forces, bitches!

I agree simple everyday products that used to last, now are unusable in half the time...everyones in on their products lasting as little time as possible.

^^^ so lets say France brought in laws to combat planned obsolescence and built-in / planned lifespan.
They did that for no reason at all and you know better? How about you go run France then.

Further, and sorry I can't be bothered looking it up, but a poster here recently mentioned how a uni student was marked down in a design course for NOT designing in lifespan. Yeah, its not happening.


Anecdotally (sorry no peer reviewed gee whizz sh!t for you here) but seriously:

(1) smart phones that fail after 2-3 years and all the old push button ones still work - Disagree?


(2) ink cartridges for printers that are supplied with the new printer, ad still have ink but are programmed to give a "run out" signal early so you buy a new cartridge (fact)


(3) the worst one ever - style obsolescence, or backwards compatibility issues with software.
Humans really are the dumbest creatures ever. As an example of the former... we had big phones that got smaller and smaller. Then we needed bigger ones as the screen became functional. Yes, understandable. But the iPad to iPad mini to then bigger iPad again is ridiculous when there is essentially the same functionality. They sold us all on smaller, then bigger again!!! Dumb people fall all the time for having to have the latest.... and built in failure ensures the smart ones have to go for it also.

And you DID say all of this did not exist, 2mins on google will show you all these issues DO exist (and again, why some places have legislated against it)


Anyway all of this is borderline irrelevant to the original post. He said no warranty on the replacement. I said yes it must have warranty - as it has to, by law, last as long as "reasonably expected".

Interesting my Axis New Wave 2013 snapped as well after only little usage. I reckon it's a design flaw, have head a few people had problems with it.
I will repair mine and try to be more careful about it but not a happy camper...

Not really, smart retailers will stop selling products that the wholesaler won't back up.