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Foiling is going to lead to the end of kitesurfing

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Created by bramber 1 month ago, 20 Mar 2019
bramber
VIC, 67 posts
20 Mar 2019 7:19PM
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Now that I have your attention, there is a serious issue with foiling that needs to be addressed.

As foiling gains in popularity I can see a situation where the learning curve for getting into kitesurfing is going to be so high that the average Jill or joe is going to be so intimidated by the skills and cost required to be considered good at it or even get started that they just won't bother. If seasoned kiters with years of experience under their belt find it really challenging then what chance the lay person. Unless you grow up in a kiting family even young people won't take it up. Basically the sport will die, windsurfing style, as the old time afficionados age with it.

On another note why is mowing the lawn suddenly cool now just because it's 1m up in the air and you spent $2k to do it?

Anyway just some random thoughts while I get frustrated by my time off the water. I haven't said anything too controversial have I?

cauncy
WA, 7044 posts
20 Mar 2019 5:02PM
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Great news

Kamikuza
QLD, 3754 posts
20 Mar 2019 7:39PM
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On another note why is snowboarding popular? 99% of people can't even edge properly... Or twin tips. Most people can hardly get the fins clear of the water.

It's not "really challenging", just a steep initial learning curve. Unless you're an egg.

Weta
WA, 827 posts
20 Mar 2019 6:57PM
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Nothing wrong with eggs............Egg Boy would give it a fair crack!!!!

I would think most people looking to get into kiting would see foiling as a separate discipline that they may explore once they've learnt to fly a kite and control a board.

maxpower1
WA, 12 posts
20 Mar 2019 6:59PM
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I don't see how foiling will in anyway deter people from taking up kitesurfing. It's just a different way and another choice to kite. I might want to try foiling soon but if I find it too hard for me to learn I won't then give up kiting all together. And what is wrong with getting on the water and just mowing the lawn, if that's what you are into? Each to there own.

lotofwind
NSW, 5015 posts
20 Mar 2019 11:25PM
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I hope it does decrease kite numbers, but unfortunately it wont. It has bought a resurgence to sailboarders

eppo
WA, 6915 posts
20 Mar 2019 8:50PM
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I'd try foiling myself if I was you and then Decide if it will be the death of kiteboarding and also if it is mowing the lawn in air. You'll find you are incorrect on both accounts.

greenleader
QLD, 5202 posts
20 Mar 2019 11:33PM
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Tosspots love to kite surf......that is my idea for a car sticker

wishy
WA, 1340 posts
21 Mar 2019 7:00AM
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I think foiling will recruit more people to kiting. Imagine youre a 14 year old sailing a fast little boat, and a kitefoiler overtakes you on an upwind tack doing mach 3. You would never want to sit in your boring little bathtub again.

bjw
NSW, 2670 posts
21 Mar 2019 10:34AM
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If it thins the crowds, is that bad?

But windsurfing died when it got too expensive. Kiting hasn't done that yet.

But innovations like the click bar will lift the average cost and see prices rise further.

CJ2478
NSW, 314 posts
21 Mar 2019 10:41AM
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hopefully this phenomenon you speak of screens out any potential new kiters from the golfing fraternity and generally thins out the crowds of seasonal influxes of kooks at crowded spots. This also means less repetitiion of threads on seabreeze about the subjects of gojoes, etc

A decline in the number of new kiters is potentially a win for existing kiters if there is a surplus of gear being produced, meaning lower end of season prices for all the regular joe current kiters out there.

eppo
WA, 6915 posts
21 Mar 2019 7:46AM
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If you hunt around there is enough gear available now that would cost you the same as a single kite for a foil setup.

And yet it creates the need for less wing size in your quiver. Can't remember the last time I was anything bigger than a 10m.

Also it has given us numerous sessions already that we wouldn't have even bothered given the lack of swell and wind.

It adds another dimensions that needs to be experienced to understand.

It is anything but mowing the lawn... although it can look like that from a na?ve perspective.

lotofwind
NSW, 5015 posts
21 Mar 2019 10:55AM
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Select to expand quote
wishy said..
I think foiling will recruit more people to kiting. Imagine youre a 14 year old sailing a fast little boat, and a kitefoiler overtakes you on an upwind tack doing mach 3. You would never want to sit in your boring little bathtub again.


You are right there, I think that's why heaps of sailboarders are now jumping onto the foil craze, its been a savior to the dwindling sailboarding industry.

Peahi
VIC, 1035 posts
21 Mar 2019 12:58PM
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froiling IS NOT mowing the lawn

it just looks like it

but looks can be deceptive

so its only a naiive perception

but perception becomes reality

Adoy
NSW, 229 posts
21 Mar 2019 1:35PM
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Most of my local kiting venues are too shallow so it makes foiling impractical

Gorgo
VIC, 4134 posts
21 Mar 2019 2:13PM
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lotofwind said..




...






You are right there, I think that's why heaps of sailboarders are now jumping onto the foil craze, its been a savior to the dwindling sailboarding industry.





I see a few sailboarders on foils. None have progressed past the very beginner stage yet. They're still not riding in proper light winds. They tend to do what windsurfers always do. Ride out. Crash. Ride back. Crash. Repeat.

I'm not sure I care whether people take up foiling. It's their loss if they don't. We get the beach to ourselves on so many perfect days. It's a little bit annoying to have to share on stronger days.

Certainly at the competent intermediate level I can do everything on a foil that other people do on surfboards and TT. The only thing I can't do that I used to do on a TT is kiteloop air gybes. I miss them, but I gain everything else you can do on a foil so it's a fair trade.

A decent surf-sized foil and a 7-8m surf kite will easily encompass the range of a TT or surfboard and a 2-3 kite quiver. Add a 12m and a 4m and you're good for 10-40 knots comfortably.

vendeavours
VIC, 330 posts
21 Mar 2019 3:57PM
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Only use in light wind kiting and use in waves with out kite Otherwise on my surf boards with stronger wind My little quiver Green is the new blacklol


ActionSportsWA
WA, 660 posts
21 Mar 2019 1:10PM
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Hi Bramber,

Foiling is only difficult for experienced kiters because they have the perception that it will just be a small adjustment from their normal kite sport. It is actually very easy to learn with the right tools and advice/coaching. Experienced kiters learn very quickly that few of their board skills transfer across.

I speculate that it would be easier for a beginner to learn foiling than the most experienced kiter (towed behind a boat) because they have no preconceived ideas or muscle memory to change.

I think every kiter that want more water time will all add a foil to their quiver. It will extend the season by at least 3 months without changing your current kite quiver. The fact that you can be fully powered in just 12 knots of wind with a 10m kite makes you think. It makes no sense not to foil with a kite IMHO.

DM

dusta
WA, 2899 posts
21 Mar 2019 1:14PM
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imo foiling is cheaper as you can basically get away with one kite quiver for 95% of wind strength. If you can fly a kite in light wind you can use that one kite from sub 10 knots to over 20 .

dbabicwa
WA, 739 posts
21 Mar 2019 1:43PM
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Absolutely with OP.

To all foilers, please post a pic with your JUMPS, which is a basic TT skill.

No pics? Ah well...Before you *jump* into conclusions, I do foil.

Some people are unable to jump on TT or SB, and that's ok. Show us something else than.

Oh, and high wind foiling? Or RedBull King of Air? It won't happen.

Plummet
4382 posts
21 Mar 2019 2:17PM
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Select to expand quote
dbabicwa said..
Absolutely with OP.

To all foilers, please post a pic with your JUMPS, which is a basic TT skill.

No pics? Ah well...Before you *jump* into conclusions, I do foil.

Some people are unable to jump on TT or SB, and that's ok. Show us something else than.

Oh, and high wind foiling? Or RedBull King of Air? It won't happen.


As requested. Foiling jump, Yes its a pretty average jump and a grainy photo. That was around 4 months into foiling


High wind foiling 35-40 knots, 4m uno.


The above photo looks pretty benign. But below photo (not me in the pic) is the 100m upwind of the above photo pic. It certainly was not a benign day!


I haven't got any pics of me foiling waves yet. But I can and do get into head high plus waves on the foil.


dbabicwa
WA, 739 posts
21 Mar 2019 2:35PM
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Why I'm not surprised Plummet...Can you put some mutant pics as well? Or your mutant is not the thing any more :)

Now you are in 0.1% which proves what exactly?

Plummet wins. As always ;) How is that helping with the sales, I do not know. Maybe with selling telescopes with 60x zoom.

PS I gave you greenie, just for the effort of jumping the foil. Please don't tell us that YOU have built this foil. We know.

ajohnc
QLD, 13 posts
21 Mar 2019 4:42PM
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Thats pretty epic ,4m and overhead waves does add a level of excitement!

dbabicwa
WA, 739 posts
21 Mar 2019 2:47PM
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On mutant. Not on foil.

Just saying...

eppo
WA, 6915 posts
21 Mar 2019 3:11PM
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Select to expand quote
dbabicwa said..
Absolutely with OP.

To all foilers, please post a pic with your JUMPS, which is a basic TT skill.

No pics? Ah well...Before you *jump* into conclusions, I do foil.

Some people are unable to jump on TT or SB, and that's ok. Show us something else than.

Oh, and high wind foiling? Or RedBull King of Air? It won't happen.


I am a little confused on what you are asking for and why ?

If I want to jump get on my TT with a 10m rebel in 25 to 30 knots.

If I want to foil then I foil....

dusta
WA, 2899 posts
21 Mar 2019 3:25PM
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Select to expand quote
dbabicwa said..
Absolutely with OP.

To all foilers, please post a pic with your JUMPS, which is a basic TT skill.

No pics? Ah well...Before you *jump* into conclusions, I do foil.

Some people are unable to jump on TT or SB, and that's ok. Show us something else than.

Oh, and high wind foiling? Or RedBull King of Air? It won't happen.


high wind foiling wont happen ?


bollox . We've had racing in 25+ winds . It's scary as **** but does happen

Plummet
4382 posts
21 Mar 2019 3:27PM
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Select to expand quote
bramber said..
Now that I have your attention, there is a serious issue with foiling that needs to be addressed.

As foiling gains in popularity I can see a situation where the learning curve for getting into kitesurfing is going to be so high that the average Jill or joe is going to be so intimidated by the skills and cost required to be considered good at it or even get started that they just won't bother. If seasoned kiters with years of experience under their belt find it really challenging then what chance the lay person. Unless you grow up in a kiting family even young people won't take it up. Basically the sport will die, windsurfing style, as the old time afficionados age with it.

On another note why is mowing the lawn suddenly cool now just because it's 1m up in the air and you spent $2k to do it?

Anyway just some random thoughts while I get frustrated by my time off the water. I haven't said anything too controversial have I?


Yeah nah, Foiling is a global phenomenon not limited to just kiting. You can get a foil for anystyle of board now. SB, SUP, Kite, efoil, various yatchs including america's cup.... hell even windsurfing is getting foils and that sport was cancelled 15 years ago!

Foiling will pull more people into kiting,

Foiling looks like mowing the lawn because the action is occuring under the water. From the land you cant see the sensations that are occuring. needless to say foiling is not a spectators sport, it is a participators sport, You need to feel the action to understand it.

dbabicwa
WA, 739 posts
21 Mar 2019 3:41PM
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Select to expand quote
dusta said..

dbabicwa said..
Absolutely with OP.

To all foilers, please post a pic with your JUMPS, which is a basic TT skill.

No pics? Ah well...Before you *jump* into conclusions, I do foil.

Some people are unable to jump on TT or SB, and that's ok. Show us something else than.

Oh, and high wind foiling? Or RedBull King of Air? It won't happen.



high wind foiling wont happen ?


bollox . We've had racing in 25+ winds . It's scary as **** but does happen


It does happen on every blue Moon.

Bollox that you can jump your foil. You know me, I know you, so...

Show me what else you can do...

lotofwind
NSW, 5015 posts
21 Mar 2019 6:43PM
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Shouldn't this be in the victa section ??
The foil in big waves and winds looks like a rush.

Plummet
4382 posts
21 Mar 2019 3:43PM
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dbabicwa said..
Now you are in 0.1% which proves what exactly?





You asked for pictures of high wind and jumping so i provided it. What does it prove?
That the things that you said won't happen are happening by people around the world
If this old worn out kook can then anyone can,
Hell, I'm lucky if I foil once a month at the moment. I'm by no means in the top 0.1% by any level,

dbabicwa
WA, 739 posts
21 Mar 2019 3:43PM
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Select to expand quote
eppo said..



dbabicwa said..
Absolutely with OP.

To all foilers, please post a pic with your JUMPS, which is a basic TT skill.

No pics? Ah well...Before you *jump* into conclusions, I do foil.

Some people are unable to jump on TT or SB, and that's ok. Show us something else than.

Oh, and high wind foiling? Or RedBull King of Air? It won't happen.





I am a little confused on what you are asking for and why ?

If I want to jump get on my TT with a 10m rebel in 25 to 30 knots.

If I want to foil then I foil....




Sorry Epp,

I thought Plumm wrote this.

Why? Because we need a TT and SB riders to please the crowd. The same crowd who buys gear b/c they got exited watching you doing your stuff on a TT which you are NOT doing on a HF.

AFL does not need a crowd for survival?

How's that?



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"Foiling is going to lead to the end of kitesurfing" started by bramber