This one has got to me
Here is a copy of my email to AKSA.
Perhaps if we adopt the 'CarlBevo strategy' of a mass of emails like this we could possibly see kiter-power achieve a realistic, sensible revision of the plans for 'our' 06 Nationals.
Dont like to complain BUT ........
Could you please pass on my vote of disapproval at the seemingly ludicrous decision to have a split venue event for the 06 Nationals.
I cannot understand how such a scheme could even be contemplated let alone discussed and adopted.
As a keen comp spectator/volunteer I would almost certainly travel to any venue in Australia but 2 venues ?... so far apart ???
I find this all very difficult to comprehend ??????
My opinion is that Gero 05 - despite being so remote for most - has raised the standard and level of interest in 'the Nationals' to a previously unprecedented height. This move for 06 will not only negate the whole of that much needed leap forward but put the event a whole step backward.
With the level of discontent evidenced last year over the 05 event being so remote (understandable) I would have thought that compensating for, and capitalising on, that discontent; in combination with the increased interest level created by Gero; could be very easily and very effectively achieved by coming back with a HUGE nationals in the most centrally accessable area of Aust as possible.
Surely this is the ONLY logical follow up path to adopt ?
I thought it was AKSAs roll to 'promote' all aspects of our sport. I see this move doing exactly the opposite.
I only hope that a wave of discontent can/will bring about a revision of this planning before it is too late.
Forgive me if I am missing something here but really ............FNQ to the south coast .............1 event ....... come on ???????
How about a compromise?
Hold the Nationals in SA at Cactus.
That's suitably remote enough and equally inaccessible to most parties concerned.
Originally posted by waveslave
How about a compromise?
Hold the Nationals in SA at Cactus.
That's suitably remote enough and equally inaccessible to most parties concerned.
shouldnt they be held in a different state each year...that way u spread the travelling,spread the work load,spread the local advantage etc
every so often its in your back yard....otherwise u have to get off ur backside and see and kite a bit of the country that u may not have seen before...whats so bad about that.
all this eastcoast/westcoast bickering is BS and if u dont want to travell across the nullabour then just miss out every once in awhile.the next year it will be closer anyway.
of course the two events must be held together!
It's not about East versus West, never was, it's about getting both comps in the one spot..... somewhere. As for each state having a turn, great idea as long as both events are at the same venue, it has already been in : (Schick event; Newcastle and Palm Beach, NSW 2001), (Brighton Beach, Melbourne 2002), (Gold Coast, Queensland 2003), (Cronulla, NSW 2004), (Geraldton, WA 2005).
If we follow that theory, it is either the turn of Adelaide or Robe, SA, or even Tassie! Now there's food for thought
Hold the nationals in two states, two party weeks for this year and by next year everyone will have seen how much of a joke it is. Shame for people who need that **** for some self gratification but surely everyone can see the whole concept of a national event is losing credibility and relevence on a daily basis. A lot of people walked away from geraldon questioning what the hell had happened to them, especially choicey. Self inflicted.
Unless, hold the freestyle at cable and the waves at Shipsterns.
That gives me an idea!
Hold the wakeystyle comp at a cable park somewhere !That way you won't get skunked with the wind !
Hold the wave contest on the Gold coast.You can't go wrong !
Consideration has to be given to someone actually wanting to run the event... That seems to have been missed so far.
All the volunteers from WAKSA, Gav and surrounding people put in countless hours to make the 05 Nats get off the ground. At this point we don't have the dollars or the structure to run the Nationals unless someone puts their hand up to do the work. Fortunately for WA we have guys like Gav, Choicey and Youngie who are dedicated and organised enough to do this sort of thing well.
Having said all that... my concern when I read it was for riders being able to make two events. Obviously the WA riders were the major concern, but then it's tough for everyone to get to both event surely. I know that I won't be able to make both as a volunteer or spectator.
Anyway... keep the feedback coming cause I'm sure AKSA will be taking note :)
Someone to run the event??
How about the AKSA, they have plenty of funds ! I believe it is something like $23,000.00??
Dean i think that you just hit the nail on the head.You need people who want to do the work to put an event together.Its a selfless, thankless job that takes up near on all your spare time.As for 2 different locations?I dont know maybe they (AKSA)are just trying to spread the work load around.Certainly the exposure in melborne would be good with a guarented big crowd and media exposure.(yes fellas this sport needs all the exposure it can get to entice sponsors in years to come)And i believe the Sunny coast would be the same.The more people that see the pinicle of our sport THE MORE CREDABILITY IT WILL RECIEVE.
Just my 2 cents worth.
This sport has no cred. It's a rag-tag affair that's a safety hazard to all other beach users. The presence of kiters at the beach is at best, barely tolerated by the masses.
Stay low profile if you are chasing any kind of longevity with this gay sport.
Sub-culture status is so much cooler than semi main-streaming.
Hey wave slapped bich, why don't you PO back to the nerdy polies forum where you belong
hey slave go pole dance somewhere else you F@GOT.....................[}:)]
AKSA has been watching this thread for some days now, while consultation and opion were sought from all committee members. This notice is to clarify AKSA’s decision making process and the reasons behind the decision to split the Nationals into two disciplines (Wave and Freestyle) and hold those events in two separate locations.
History: Last year the AKSA national were held in Geraldton and run by WAKSA. The decision to allow WAKSA to run last years Nationals was made in 2003 or early 2004 before any of the current committee were their positions. The decision making process for that decision is unknown. Although the current AKSA committee had faith in WAKSA and their ability to hold a good event, it was recognised that AKSA’s lack of involvement in the early stages of the organisation of the previous (Cronulla) Nationals was partly to blame for some deficiencies in that event. AKSA wanted to ensure the 2005 Nationals would be widely well respected by its competitive members from around the country, and so created the Competition Steering Committee (CSC). The role was to create a forum for feedback from the organisers and to the organisers of the Nationals, to increase the likelihood of a well received competition format. To some extent this worked, although the lack of procedures by which the CSC was operating led to tensions between the CSC and the organisers, and ultimately reduced effectiveness. After the Nationals, the CSC has laid dormant while the operating procedures are reviewed, discussed and put into place. This process has almost finished.
AKSA Nationals 2005 – review.
The Geraldton Nationals, from AKSA’s perspective was the most successful competition in its history. The number of competitors was up on previous years, despite Geraldton’s isolation and the widespread ill feeling towards the Nationals concept after the 2004 Cronulla event. The general response from the competitors was strongly in favour of WAKSA’s management of the event despite some major changes from previous years. The decision do split the event in to wave and freestyle was very well received. The introduction of the modified Priority Buoy System and associated judging system was extremely well received by judges and organisers, and although the system receiving mixed reviews from competitors, it was certainly approved by the majority of competitors. The Geraldton Nationals showed to AKSA that competitor support and interest in the Nationals is as strong as it ever has been. It was noted by many that a criticism of the event, although hard to find, could be that the weighting system was not widely consulted, and that the individual place getters of wave and freestyle did not receive the accolades and recognition they deserved. All focus was on the overall winner with none for the discipline winners. In the context of the event being the first of its kind, this is an understandable oversight. Another potential criticism was lack of sponsorship funding. The process of making the decision not to chase sponsorship was never made clear to AKSA, however the success of the event overshadowed any lack of prize money or high cost to competitors and there was no significant level of grumbling from competitors regarding this issue.
AKSA Nationals 2006 – Current situation
Word was spread at the Geraldton Nationals that AKSA would be making the location and organising committee decisions for the 2006 Nationals in much the same way as these decisions are made for the Olympics, ie to receive bids from interested parties, weigh up the options, and make an announcement. The AKSA January newsletter announced this process formally and said the final decision would be announced at the AGM. This date was set to allow organisers sufficient time to prepare for a major event. Most experienced event organisers would suggest that less than one year for a major event of this kind is short notice, so AKSA didn’t want to delay the decision further. In the months before the Geraldton Nationals we had hoped the obvious candidate would be presented and be able to attend Geraldton and learn from the event. This didn’t happen and we moved on.
In the weeks leading up to the AGM only two parties had suggested they wanted to organise the nationals. Groups from St Kilda and the Sunshine Coast were keen. In a general meeting held in association with the AGM, the AKSA Committee discussed the options and recognised that it was important to have two disciplines separate from each other. This decision was based on observations of our members and recognition that there are a significant number of members who specialise in one or the other discipline, especially on the east coast where locations and sections of coast often have only flat water or only wave locations. As the sport and its participants develop, the riders skills and equipment are becoming more specialised, and fewer riders are able to be highly competitive in both disciplines. So it was agreed there should be separate events as pioneered by WAKSA in Geraldton. This decision sat comfortably with Andrew Regan (vice President) who drew on many years experience in Windsurfing and similarities in the development of that sport. It was also supported by Mike Walker (president) through observations in the development of competitors and competitions around the country. Every other committee member present agreed with the logic and the decision was unanimous.
Discussions then turned to a location and organising committee. It was then recognised that the Nationals, being the peak event in the sport, need to be open to as many competitors as possible, and run in such a way that is as fair as possible. The fairest system is a full double elimination draw with the latest contest rules used in Geraldton. Some modifications and evolution of the rules may be expected. A maximum draw of 64 competitors, (plus other divisions of possibly another 40 competitors) will lead to an event with around 100 competitors. History has shown that completing a full double elimination draw of this size, in a window of one week, is difficult on the east coast in good conditions. Neither the Gold Coast or Cronulla event achieved it. East Coast winds generally don’t kick in until midday. 7 half days of wind is barely enough time to get through the heats for one competition. So it was recognised that to hold both wave and freestyle competitions separately in one location, would require a window of at least one and a half, but realistically two weeks to give a fair chance of a result in both. It was immediately agreed that two weeks of competition back to back was a bad idea for a variety of obvious reasons and discussions down that line ceased.
The option of re-combining the two disciplines was discussed again with pros and cons of separation looked at more closely. The cons were chiefly convenience based issues. Difficulty for some competitors to get to both events and the potential that they be unable to do so; extra effort with the limited pool of resources in the sport of organising two events. On the other hand the pros of splitting the event were widely varied: attracting competitors who specialise in one discipline and may not enter a combined competition; presenting the national media two peak level events; promoting the sport at peak level in two different regions; potentially increasing sponsorship dollars drawn to the sport; increasing overall attendance to the nationals; elevating significance, accolades and recognition of the champions of the different disciplines; encouraging the natural diversification of the sport; increasing the pool of experience within the sport of peak level event management; and others. After this closer assessment of the pros and cons of splitting the event in two, it became an easy decision for the committee to vote on. Again the decision was unanimous. It then became obvious to allow both bidding parties to accept responsibility for the nationals and to hold flatwater freestyle in the proven location of St Kilda, and The Wave event on the Sunshine Coast.
AKSA’s responsibility to its members, to ensure the event goes well had historically been abdicated to the event organisers, however the committee agreed this was not the best management principal and it was agreed that a document would be delivered to the organising committees which outlines the minimum performance requirements of committees organisng the nationals. The announcement of the winning bids would be postponed until this document was created and could be delivered simultaneously.
The decision and minimum performance requirements were delivered officially to the bidding groups and both groups are currently carrying out their responsibilities to AKSA members. The location decision has been made and will not this year be changed. AKSA is confident that these events will be well represented and lead to a positive development of the sport. The decisions and decision making processes will be reviewed on approach to and after the next season, and they will amended accordingly for 2007 Nationals planning.
As stated in the most recent newsletter, it is possible (but still up for discussion for the CSC) that there will be 3 national champions; a wave, freestyle and an overall champion based on the combination of both disciplines. This decision has not been discussed or finalised. Most other sports don’t combine these sorts of results to achieve an overall National Champion, but AKSA will take advice from the CSC and do what’s currently best for the sport
AKSA generally doesn’t discuss this sort of issue on internet forums as it can be very inefficient use of time, the respondents on the forum are often anonymous, and often not members of AKSA. For example a time consuming check of this thread reveals that only 12 out of 20 opinions definitely come from AKSA members. Also, the convenient nature of forums leads to unthought-out questions, and instantaneous emotional responses that often need not ever be raised. Forums are very entertaining and a valuable form of communication however, the large member based association that AKSA is, would be better served by direct email feedback. It is nice to finally get some feedback from people regarding an issue we need to resolve – however in this case it’s too late. If members have queries, suggestions or any sort of feedback in the future, please make your first point of contact with your local association or AKSA directly via email through email@example.com. .
Hey Three Amigos,
Polesurfing??? That's a previous life for 'slave. Ancient history man.
I'm commenting on the current beach attitude of some kiters who are so full of self-importance that they surely need a reality check.
I'm advising to tread softly cause the foundations of this sport are lying on shaky ground.
Base-jumping and fox-hunting with hounds has more cred than kitesurfing.
Lots of words and vague reasoning that IMO doesnt make alot of sense
I find these explanations contradictory and the decisions made counter-productive to the development of this sport. I feel these decisions will serve to only distance the two diciplines and the riders
You may as well forget about the overall champ as you will never get an accurate result where all the potentials are not present just those who are able to attend both.
It seems a small majority are backing the current plans while the mass opinion is being ignored. There needs to be a better mechanism for facilitating member input into the decision making process as all members have been in the dark until a final decision was made,
- not very diplomatic and not a true reflection of member based opinion, these decisions seem to have been made by a very limited number of people and not in a transparent manner
What about the next year are we going to have the feestyle in Cairns and the waves in WA theres no clear pathway for the future?
I will respond in more detail directly to AKSA but will take the time so as not to be influenced by emotion -
Though I think AKSA's position is not inline with the masses
gotta agree with carl
a couple points mike w made i find hard to understand.
there is no need for a full double elimination... seed competitors into pools/heats and have the top riders only move through to a double elimination round. there is also no need to have a lose twice situation for the final two riders. the *only* people pushing a full double elimination at the last nationals were those who were personally "disadvantaged" because they had already lost. everyone knows this, stop dancing around it.
the competition sub committee or whatever top heavy political garbage aksa members are paying for could spend their time getting the event organized and run. hey we are the national body... would someone like to run our national champs for us because we dont actually want to deal with it...
as for emailing aksa directly, the semi regular discussions occuring on seabreeze forums seem to be indicative of the community and cause plenty of red faces... why not use the resources that already exist?!
If one thing should come of this it should be that aksa needs to look at its communication channels with the state associations and the kiters... after all aksa should be about the kiters...
A question for AKSA - Why were the state associations not consulted on this decision prior to announcing all making the decision?
I believe Qld and Vic (possibly NSW due to the AKSA committee membership base) must of been the only states aware of what was happening
This forum is a good place for dialogue as it keeps the points of issue transparent and available for all to view and consider
It has been a long read...whew, got through that one.
The issue is a tough one.
I feel that for a few years the "event" could be held at one location and run by the State orgs. on a rotating basis. Get the local community, inculding press involved and make a multi-year committment.
Just make the show bigger and better and then you can think about moving it around...the people will come.
That's my two cents worth.
Great wind in paradise again today....everyone out, I'm exhausted. But keep up the insightful comments and positive forward looking attitudes please.
PS I would have to agree with the above that this forum is a valid place for ASKA to read commentary. AKSA can of course choose only to read emails from Members. Sure Luarie could flag the Members.
With so much "spam" these days, using an ASP is certainly most convenient and it is free
Waveslave is 100% correct in his comments.
Some Kiters are like those redneck jerks standing on their jetskis,screaming along the edge of the beach looking to see if anyone is watching them. In their little minds,chics are watching them and thinking"Oh,that looks SO cooool ! I wish he would give me a ride on the back"
In reality people are watching them thinking"What a fcn tosser!I wish that I could get them banned !" Hahahahahahah!!!
As for the comp splitting up.well,its just another nail in the coffin of organised kitesurfing.
Two comps this year, No comp next year.
As for the Gerro comp,why keep refering to it as "an isolated place" ? It has a big reputation as an awesome place for wind.Of course people wanted to go there.
Just remember: You can flat water freestyle in the surf spot, but you can't surf in a flat water spot!
Firstly I would like to thank Mike W for taking the time and trouble to let us know what is happening and how AKSA made thier decisions .
After being involved in the planning and decision making of the last Nats I am only too aware that we live in a world that is far from perfect or fair for that matter .
I think everybody would prefer a better solution but if nobody puts up thier hand to do the work then you have to be practical.
Based on Mike W's post I think that AKSA have put in a lot of work and considered all thier options .
Better to have two well run events 2000 km's apart than one that turns out to be a mess .
I think everybody should also remember that all the work will be done by volunteers that WANT to HELP not by employed proffesionals that HAVE to WORK .
I am also dissapointed that this is the way that it is going to be and am far from happy but do accept that people can only work with what they are given .
I wish everybody involved all the best .
G'day Mike, and everyone else interested in this topic.
Just want to set a couple of things straight before moving on to my thoughts for a better run 2006 Nats and AKSA.
From the time I founded AKSA with the help of Ian Young, Darren Marshall, Bill Jocelin, Paul Crawford and several others, there was a distinct lack of interest and virtually no pool of volunteers to help with tasks like the Nats and State titles, let alone running AKSA itself. It was a huge task before the State Associations were formed in the last 18 months, and no-one was ever paid for any of the work they did either!
The organisation of the Cronulla Nats, was let to the company run by the then AKSA President, the same company and president that ran the Gold Coast Nats.
Without exception, all of the people who were so strongly vocal about how poorly the Cronulla Nats were run (and the Goldy nats), just stood back and did nothing to help.
The decision to run the Nats in WA was made in one of the tents during a break at the Cronulla Nats.
It seems that what happened at the Goldy and then at Cronulla was the stimulus though for some people to step forward and take over the running of AKSA ( to whom I will always be grateful!!) and the 2005 Nats, the result was the excellent Gero Nats 2005.
Huge leaps forward occurred at the Gero Nats, and I am sure the split comps in 2006 ( if thats what happens) will be massively better for the hard work from Ian Young, Ian Grose, John Geyer, Gavin Hirchausen, and the large WAKSA team of dedicated and hardworking volunteers.
AKSA also evolved and did achieve a lot for its members during 2004/2005, the current committee has done real good IMO!
One of the things that some people were very, very vocal about in their criticism of the founding AKSA committees was lack of transparency and member/State Assoc consultation. I agree, and always did, but it was easy to say that from the outside, and very difficult to achieve from the inside at the time!! :-)
Yet the same thing is happening now, and there is a perfect means to correct that lack of transparency and consultation, right here in the medium of this forum. AKSA has a perfect means to hear and acknowledge the feelings of its members.
Sending individual e-mails to info@aksa is just going to swamp some person at AKSA with a very time consuming job of replying. Individual emails and replies is not Transparency though!
Transparency, also must include full disclosure of audited accounts for AKSA each year, pie graphs just don't cut it, sorry for the pun intended!
We need AKSA to recognise and use the enormous "Transparency and Consulatation leverage" offered by a forum like this. I'm hopeful Laurie would help out, as he has with State forums. Anonymity, to a degree, can still occur, especially if we are all allotted a member number which we can quote on posts, and AKSA committe can verify privately.
If people see AKSA committee persons responding here then I think a lot of people who are not members will consider joining - because they will see that their voice and opinion is at least heard, in real time. They will also hear about things that concern them, before decisions are made.
All the ideas and opinions posted here in the one forum will stimulate others minds, there will be greater consensus, and less alienation. There will be crap posts, just ignore them unless they are AKSA members and quote their member numbers.
At the end of the day, the elected committee are charged to make decisions on behalf of the majority of members, however the committee does need to hear from as many members as possible, especially on issues such as the National Titles.
My own view is that there are plenty of places on the East Coast to run both events simultaneously. There are ways to deal with the the need to have some level of double elim comp, without literally running the whole comp heats twice. There are people very experienced in running comps, in and outside of AKSA, simply make a decison on the format and stick to it, run it it one place, like Newcastle, with the teams of volunteers from Melb and the Sunny coast combining with people from Sydney and Newcastle.
Please don't say the decision can't be changed.
Just my 2 c worth.
Hi Mike and the AKSA Committee,
I have to agree with most of the sentiments of Mike N, Steve McC and Carl. I too appreciate the work and effort AKSA has put into the organisation of the sport and also thank you for replying on behalf of AKSA, however, there are a few problems that are now obvious.
By splitting the comps, you will have to abandon the title of overall champion. As you say in windsurfing if you split the disciplines, there can no longer be an overall champion. This is a pity as the sport really is too young to be split up and have substance enough to stand on it's own feet in each dicipline. This will draw a distinctive line down the middle of the sport.
If you do choose to have an overall championship, it bites that the West Australians who wish to attend both for an overall title will be at a huge disadvantage now that you have made a decision which is "final". The first two places from every division (Opens, Masters and Womens) except juniors were west Australians. How do you reckon this is fair for them?
By splitting the venues and seperating the disciplines you are going to kill off the waves discipline as most young riders are into freestyle on the east coast, you will have pretty poor numbers at the wave event which is a great pity as this is the newest and most challenging area of the sport today and if the location is right, can be good for spectators. Surely there is an alternative!
It seems wrong that an association representing the views of all of it's members should ignore, and not at least consider the needs of it's members or what they want. You have our email addresses and can send a questionaire in less than ten minutes and then assess the results at a meeting with input from the state associations. At least then we would have a well thought out decision with the best interests of the masses in mind. It's called democracy and it works well.
There has to be a better way of communicating with the members to make the decisions that effect us directly. Like Steve says, utilising the forum is a great way to get a feel from the mass population of kiters as to what they want.
You guys are there to represent and act on behalf of the kiters and in the best interest of the kiters in ALL parts of Australia. As Steve said, decisions can be changed and better solutions sought that will appeal to the majority of kiters, not the majority of committee members.
We need to work towards a more favourable decision for all. We still have around 9 months to come up with a great nationals, your decision will be measured against the Geraldton event yardstick and will be how you will be remembered. Please do not unravel the good work done by the WA team as mentioned by Steve by splitting the event venues. We are all counting on you to be the democratic voice of the kiters. Reread the postings, they are the voices of your members and they don't agree with your decision.
I know it's hard to make the right decisions all the time and you will cop flack on most things you do, remember I've been in your shoes, but I think it in everyones best interest for you guys to reconsider your "final" decision.
(Also sent to AKSA via email)
You have put out a lot of 'top posts' Steve
But this ones the 'most top'
I reckon what steve said.
and i guess.... judging on our comments and the timeframe for the NATS decision this year.... these comments may possibly make it into the decision for the 2007 nationals
Believe it or not this is probably what the AKSA wanted.After months of silence when people (Areas)were asked whether they wanted to hold the nationals and they hardly got a reply,all of a sudden after it is announced whats going on people are having their two bobs worth.Guys its easy to stand on the outside and critise its a lot harder to roll up your sleaves and have a go.I know the CQKSA was asked if we were intereted but declined because we arent ready to hold something like the natonals yet (Or maybe its because the organisers wanted a break after the last Classic)Anyway Im sure all this banter will give mike and the commitee something to think about.
THE AUSTRALIAN KITESURFING NATIONALS: SPONSORED BY JETSTAR
All fair points, but basically, if you want a National Titles with a good turnout and you hold it in two separate places 2000kms apart then you will get a poor turnout. I am astounded by the fact that seemingly normal people even came up with this idea. 2000kms!!!!!!
As much as we would like it to be, kiteboarding is not the multi million dollar enterprise it may well one day be. Most competitors work in real jobs, earning real money, with real families to pay for. Basically, if this goes ahead there will be bugger all people show up to the events, both competitors and spectators. And if AKSA think they have a headache now, wait till the s%^tfight following the comp as to who won because so and so didn't show up. Only in Australia would people even think of hyphenating a competition with 2000kms - amazing! If this goes ahead I will be absolutely the first and last time - no-one will ever attempt it again. I realise this has bought up the transparency aspect of the organisation, and generally I am on the side of the AKSA with this one - it is a bugger of a job doing these commitee things. It is hard to get people's opinions and then to make democratic and acceptable decisions. But I would have thought this one was a no brainer....
Good luck to ya
On the transparency issue, there is an AKSA website which already posts minutes from the AGMs. Why not extend this to include minutes from formal meetings? Or at least a summary of points raised and any issues that arose? It only needs to be a bried word document.
We need to fix the transparency issue as this seems to be turning into an "Us and Them" situation. Transparency is not only about allowing the members to see the actions of the committee, it's also an opportunity for members to offer solutions and help out with any issues the committee may have.
It may also help us all realise how much work the committee put into what seems to be a pretty thankless task.
p.s. I'm still wishing for a single location Nationals