sir ROWDY said..

I think you're missing my point.

I get ya. ^^^

The most important safety system is the one that's located between your ears.

And unbridled stoke is a line drawn in the sand ...

A blurred boundary that separates calculated risk from jeopardy.

How about a user selectable dual mode safety system.
Mode 1 is for launching and landing it will have an auto release if a certain amount of strain is applied.
Mode 2 is for normal kiting where the user would need to manually release the safety as is presently done.

All good points. Variability of the situation ( ability , conditions , weight , the ability of the gear to give you a break when in trouble etc ) just cannot be fully taken into account.

Coming from windsurfing , I have always said that there is some really dodgy elements to kiting. In the plain light of day , don't underestimate it's inherent dangers.
In windsurfing , apart from getting caught up in the harness lines or getting hit on the head you can just ditch it when in trouble.
With kiting , the problem can just keep getting worse to critical from a simple mistake. We laugh it off in our stories but it's serious stuff.

On safety systems -snow ski bindings are made to release when under a certain amount of pressure. The pressure is adjustable according to your size and your ability. Hard to do with this sport I reckon ?
The greater your ability the tighter you make them as you put them under more pressure therefore the less chance of releasing when it hits the fan.
I have noticed that some experienced riders choose to go suicide even if they are not doing tricks as the brand really doesn't provide for the best safety release device. Don't think that's good enough in my book in light of the recent events.

So given the limitations safety systems currently allow. it comes back to thought processes to give the best safety possible.

The process we take should be much like flying a plane -preflight checks of conditions , location , safe launch and land ,idiots on the beach and water etc. We know flying a plane can go wrong but at least we can minimise problems.

Sounds boring and too logical I know , but there it is

Then get out and have a blast.

Puetz said..

we just got to think outside the box.

What's say ....

You could instantly deflate the leading edge at the flick of a switch ?

Transform a rigid powered beast into a flaccid rag ...

at the push of a button,

at the shift of a lever.


Just thinking ....

Dolphins said..

Moral of the story is make sure your leash release is at the right end and familiarise yourself with exactly where it is eg on the left or right handside of your harness and how to use it some are push away some are pull towards you.

Good advice, nothing worse than a wave bearing down on your kite and the leash QR is on the wrong way and out of reach. Did that the other day, thankfully the waves were small. I ended up doing the superman pose towards the kite to reduce the strain on all concerned but it certainly made me take a good hard look at my safety checklist at the start of each session.

WeirdEd said..

waveslave said..

Puetz said..







we just got to think outside the box.

What's say ....



You could instantly deflate the leading edge at the flick of a switch ?



Transform a rigid powered beast into a flaccid rag ...at the push of a button,



at the shift of a lever.Just thinking ....

Easy! What you're describing is a small-shot charge...shoot it down. Could be used against jetskis as well. Brilliant.

... and people who short tack!!!!

Im a windsurfer and have no knowledge of kiting equipment Many other people on the beach probably have no kiting experience.
What ever the device i think it should be a clear red color with an arrow with the words emergency written on it.


If in the event where a person of the general public was to render assistance (first on scene) an emergency.
Eliminating the DANGER is the first issue one must deal with.This would be the KITE.

I think what you are looking at here is a overview of safety systems and maybe an Australia standard.

A quick release on a kite may not be used if the kiter is injuired, If this is the case then the clear labeling of such a device is essential for the public response..

in the safety world, hierachy of hazard control goes

1.Elimination - the best as Sir Rowdy says dont kite risky spots/conditions, or dont kite at all!!

2.Substitution - kite somewhere else or take up windsurfing

3.Engineered controls - current discussion

4.Administrative controls - eg education/training

5.Personal protective equipment eg helmets impact vests etc - protection when the **** has already happened


being there on Sunday and seeing the consequence reinforces elimination as the best strategy, something a few of us decided upon
it is a spot with no margin for error in a westerly and very sadly marc paid the ultimate price

accidents are also a coincidence of events eg if a lull instead of a gust hit marc maybe no harm done, but all the factors lined the wrong way, but go back to the risk assessment of the location - eliminate kiting there as first step

didnt WAKSA have their CLEAR checklist at one stage??

diving medicine and aviation and other industries examine their accidents to nth degree to improve safety and so should we

more importantly we need to learn from that process

people will still dive with asthma or kite where they wish but they take on board that risk...

Watching videos of out of control kites and people being launched and chucked around like a rag doll as they fly down a beach have one thing is common, as they fly in the superman position the CL is pulling on the harness hook as if the kiter were standing on the beach with the kite at 12:00, it's pulling straight up on the hook, this is not a normal position while underway. The harness hook could be designed to release when a strong enough force is applied from this direction only.

sir ROWDY said..

Chris6791 said..

waveslave said..

Puetz said..

we just got to think outside the box.

What's say ....

You could instantly deflate the leading edge at the flick of a switch ?

Transform a rigid powered beast into a flaccid rag ...

at the push of a button,

at the shift of a lever.


Just thinking ....

Never in my life did I think I would agree with Waveslave on anything but this idea has some merit.

... Go hold partially (or fully) deflated kite in 40knots and see how effective it is at killing the power. If anything this system has the potential to make a bad situation worse.

It still won't be pretty but I suppose it could be another last ditch option when all the other control options have failed or it's too late to implement them. From a purely theoretical point of view the idea has some basis but when you throw in human nature it would probably fall over, it will cost more and people are reluctant to pay more for something they think they don't need, and if the rider has already missed the opportunity to pull their QR why add another release that probably won't get triggered until it's too late.

I agree with your hierarchy of control, is well established in industry and the private sector, but in this environment of the individual rider it's almost impossible to alter their behaviour unless they choose to. Even if legislation was brought in it would be ignored by a significant percentage, we all enjoy the freedom this sport affords. We can't even keep the few rogues out of the flagged beaches in summer.

I'm not being critical of Marc, I wasn't there and by all accounts he was a genuinely safety conscious rider and a combination of many factors caused his accident to happen, but any control measure or engineered solutions need to be applied across the whole population of kiters not to an individual incident.

It will always come back to self-awareness, kiting to the conditions and location and not being afraid to sit on the beach. And if you are in the poo pull the QR immediately. I must also admit I've been critical of people pulling their QR simply because they couldn't relaunch their kite in the water and other trivial non-emergency reasons, I'll rethink that, I don't think I will be critical of someone pulling their QR ever again.

Beaglebuddy said..

sir ROWDY said..

Beaglebuddy said..

Watching videos of out of control kites and people being launched and chucked around like a rag doll as they fly down a beach have one thing is common, as they fly in the superman position the CL is pulling on the harness hook as if the kiter were standing on the beach with the kite at 12:00, it's pulling straight up on the hook, this is not a normal position while underway. The harness hook could be designed to release when a strong enough force is applied from this direction only.

Yeah because it never pulls that way when someone boosts... think again.

Watch the videos of people getting dragged around, the initial pull when the person is upright is straight away from the body, this throws them onto the ground then as the kite starts to drag them off it is pulling straight up on the hook as the person is prone on the ground, not sure what you are seeing.

And this differs how exactly from normal use???
Swooping the kite - initial pull = straight away from the body.
Doing a boost - pull = straight up.

See what I'm getting at?

sir ROWDY said..

... Go hold partially (or fully) deflated kite in 40knots and see how effective it is at killing the power. If anything this system has the potential to make a bad situation worse.

So dude,

You've flown a deflated rag in 40 knots, have you ? ^^^

lol.

You never get 40 knots in your town, man.

So I'm calling BS on your wild assumption, Rowdy.

Let's conduct the experiment, shall we.

You first.

waveslave said..

You never get 40 knots in your town, man.

True, we rarely get 40knots here although it does happen on occassion, however - I travel the world the whole year almost non-stop going to the windiest places on earth, so it wouldn't be a far stretch of the imagination to think that at some point my kite has deflated on me in 40knots and I know what I'm talking about... Obviously that would make far too much sense though.

^^^^^
What about if we filled the kite with a hydrogen, oxygen mixture, the kite would fly so much better, then in an emergency have a battery to give a spark in the leading edge so that the kite would spontaneously combust and stop pulling.

Yea that's it, you could also have a remote operated switch that you could leave with your fellow kitesurfers, so that if you are in danger, or are court short tacking; boom, game over, and everybody is safe.
Maybe at some WA spots a remotely operated auto combustion safety device should be compulsory for visitors unfamiliar with the local set up.