WAKSA - Euro Kiters and the Windy Season

> 10 years ago
Reply
Register to post, see what you've read, and subscribe to topics.
gruezi
gruezi
WA
3464 posts
WA, 3464 posts
4 Jul 2008 1:19pm
Slave: People know that crap happens (just like the random dog off a lease who kills someone)...if Dan has a random Kook event at my local it will not get banned because the authorities have already been told that accidents can happen...............duh.

People in Council etc. are a lot more rational than you give them credit for Slave..........keep the crap coming though, all good questions....but man you are tough to reason with some times........and of course you have a great fan following that is not to be ignored either.

You said a long time ago that this sport will go to guerrilla kiting..........I hope not.

Come on Slave put yourself in the tourist's position for a change. Use that great intellect of yours. What information would you like about kiting in WA when you get off at the airport? And in return for giving you the tourist some useful information, what message would you like to give the tourist for the WA kiter perspective?
waveslave
waveslave
WA
4263 posts
WA, 4263 posts
4 Jul 2008 1:34pm
gruezi said...

Slave: People know that crap happens (just like the random dog off a lease who kills someone)...if Dan has a random Kook event at my local it will not get banned because the authorities have already been told that accidents can happen...............duh.



Do you actually believe this ? ^^
So,
apparently it's ok for Kiterdan to massively kook-out.....
(* Excuse: Sh1t happens)
lol.
but, God help us if a Euro makes sh1t happen.

Is WAKSA xenophobic ?


gruezi
gruezi
WA
3464 posts
WA, 3464 posts
4 Jul 2008 1:38pm
Come on Slave, same applies to anyone, all Dan is trying to do is think up something that might work to reduce Kook Out due to ignorance.

No-one is Xenophobic....we are all pretty recent migrants to this country as it is. I love all that is new and different........even you Slave, have a good weekend.
Spacemonkey!
Spacemonkey!
SA
2288 posts
SA, 2288 posts
4 Jul 2008 4:20pm
Theres only one almost surefire way to handle the problem and that is to create a licenscing system where you must prove your competency both practically and theoretically like a boat licensce test. This is extra expense we are placing apon ourselves and a lot of extra work. I'm not really for or against the idea. I think a good start might be sign posts with local rules where people rig up.

Such as no jumping xxxx distance from shore, no kiting in certain direction wind etc. I'm not really sure all that should go onto one. I can only talk about my own spot and the only problem with woodies really (apart from people drifting out too sea) is the people cutting you off, clogging up the area because they are not quite up too standard. Each beach is different and could have different signhs...

Just some ideas that are really just rehashes. I don't really know where the answer lies, I would prefer not to have to have a licensce... but maybe one day we will have no choice.
getfunky
getfunky
WA
4485 posts
WA, 4485 posts
4 Jul 2008 3:21pm
Spacemonkey! said...

Theres only one almost surefire way to handle the problem and that is to create a licenscing system where you must prove your competency both practically and theoretically like a boat licensce test. This is extra expense we are placing apon ourselves and a lot of extra work. I'm not really for or against the idea. I think a good start might be sign posts with local rules where people rig up.

Such as no jumping xxxx distance from shore, no kiting in certain direction wind etc. I'm not really sure all that should go onto one. I can only talk about my own spot and the only problem with woodies really (apart from people drifting out too sea) is the people cutting you off, clogging up the area because they are not quite up too standard. Each beach is different and could have different signhs...

Just some ideas that are really just rehashes. I don't really know where the answer lies, I would prefer not to have to have a licensce... but maybe one day we will have no choice.


Finally someone talking sense - and not just enjoying the sound of their own voice

Yeh we would all prefer it didn't need to be licensed but tis the way of the future the way things are goin. Especially, judging from the input/feedback of some of kitings exponants on this site..
Ben De Jonge
Ben De Jonge
WA
819 posts
WA, 819 posts
4 Jul 2008 5:40pm
Gruezi - Fair ask.

I would agree with some of the suggestions here that the only way to begin to deal with it is by communicating direct to kiters - On Forums and at the crowded beaches where accidents are more likely to happen, and tourist kiters are more likely to ride.

I think Forums can be a massivley powerful tool, and the other obvious one, as suggested by others already, is Big beach signs, sponsored by WAKSA so the relvants can see WAKSA are doing the right things and are aware of the problems.

I'm not convinced that it needs a skew towards Euros/Touros, I've seen plenty of local kiters do stupid things in my time and been at the bad end of a couple too. Even done a couple of dumb things myself.

Keep the comms geographically specific - at and about the trouble hot spots - and you might have a chance of raising awareness, making WAKSA etc look like they are on top of things, and talking to all kiters, not just the out-of-towners.

Cheers
junglist
junglist
VIC
701 posts
VIC, 701 posts
4 Jul 2008 7:50pm
gruezi said...


No-one is Xenophobic...


(cough)

This all sounds very provincial.
Mind you, you are a bit strange out West are you not?



Spacemonkey!
Spacemonkey!
SA
2288 posts
SA, 2288 posts
4 Jul 2008 7:59pm
Ben De Jonge said...

Gruezi - Fair ask.

I would agree with some of the suggestions here that the only way to begin to deal with it is by communicating direct to kiters - On Forums and at the crowded beaches where accidents are more likely to happen, and tourist kiters are more likely to ride.

I think Forums can be a massivley powerful tool, and the other obvious one, as suggested by others already, is Big beach signs, sponsored by WAKSA so the relvants can see WAKSA are doing the right things and are aware of the problems.

I'm not convinced that it needs a skew towards Euros/Touros, I've seen plenty of local kiters do stupid things in my time and been at the bad end of a couple too. Even done a couple of dumb things myself.

Keep the comms geographically specific - at and about the trouble hot spots - and you might have a chance of raising awareness, making WAKSA etc look like they are on top of things, and talking to all kiters, not just the out-of-towners.

Cheers


I tend to agree, do we need to stop just euro tools, or tools outright. The problem is tourists fly in and out and have less idea about local conditions and rules and hence form a larger proportion of the tools out there. Doesn't matter what sort of tool has a major accident, we should be trying to prevent this. It would be better not to try and single out tourists but rather try and weed out the idiots out there or at least make an effort to make it hard for incompetant kiters to ride our spots and hopefully to educate them and improve their skills. Local signs can help educate local rules and conditions and some sort of test would help make sure total noobs arent out there kiting alone in innapropriate conditions.
Ben De Jonge
Ben De Jonge
WA
819 posts
WA, 819 posts
4 Jul 2008 6:50pm
I wonder if it would be possible to 'elect' WAKSA sanctioned 'Sheriffs' at the 'Name' spots - Real locals who are always on the water, or a small group of the same who are sanctioned by all the locals at that beach, and WAKSA, to have a quiet word with reckless riders, maybe even stop people riding/launching if they are clearly a danger to themselves or others. Perhaps they could carry leaflets containing Rules of Conduct at eah spot, direct people to read the signs and dispense basic wisdoms and reasons in a cool way.

Obviously these people would have to be carefully chosen with the backing of the 'core' group of locals at each location - Woodies, Scarbs, Pinaroo, Brighton, Lanno, Gerro, Corro, Margies etc.

Yes, I can se that this could lead to a number of mini-Mugabe's at our beaches and everything should be done to make sure these Sherifs are smart, mellow and have the respect of locals and know how to diplomatically handle a gentle enforcement situation.
gruezi
gruezi
WA
3464 posts
WA, 3464 posts
4 Jul 2008 8:38pm
Great stuff peoples...now we are getting somewhere.

I am totally against having designated "kiter police." Perhaps I am naive to believe that if only 50% of kiters at a local spot each collectively (I know it sounds weird) as kiter police to stop stupid idiots, then there would be few problems. Perhaps by "paying" (most people only value stuff they pay for) for a membership you also take on certain responsibilities to do the right thing................... rather than look away when you see crap going down. There is power in numbers, and deep down all people want to do the right things...............it is just the 1 in 1000 randoms that are the real risk...but that is everywhere.

Lack of sun, warmth and wind is starting to get me down
waveslave
waveslave
WA
4263 posts
WA, 4263 posts
4 Jul 2008 8:56pm
gruezi said...
Perhaps by "paying" (most people only value stuff they pay for) for a membership you also take on certain responsibilities to do the right thing................... rather than look away when you see crap going down.


Here we go again.
More WAKSA pimping. ^^
What's going on ?
Is WAKSA down on membership ?
If you want to increase the numbers.....
offer a free, cool T-shirt to new members.
Folks want to get something for their money.



junglist
junglist
VIC
701 posts
VIC, 701 posts
4 Jul 2008 11:05pm
Christ on a bike! Have a word with yourselves, you sound like a bunch of surf Nazis! Local this, core crew that, kite police this, registration that!

So where / when are all these accidents that are supposed to be putting your little patch at risk? I am sure if there were major incidents with beaches being banned we would be regularly hearing about them. How many beaches have had kiting banned in Australia?? Can anybody answer this??

Cheers

J
waveslave
waveslave
WA
4263 posts
WA, 4263 posts
4 Jul 2008 9:12pm
Right-on Junglist. ^^

It's WAKSA's 'fear and loathing' method to up the membership.
It's downright despicable.
Damo
Damo
WA
641 posts
WA, 641 posts
4 Jul 2008 9:46pm
Waveslave 1st off i'm not having a go at ya but what is it exactly that you have against WAKSA??? and WAKSA members??

i gather from reading your posts that you dont think people doing the wrong thing at the beach and creating problems betwen local residents and authorities is such a big issue. maybe you should front up at a WAKSA meeting one day and then you might have an idea of what realy goes on and you will see how much **** they have to deal with from local councils. just because you dont have to deal with it personaly doesnt mean it doesnt happen. even if you dont think it is a big issue some people do and they want to try and stop the problem before thier fav spots do get banned. and i dont think you should flame on them so badly for doing so.
just look at what happend at cott a few years back. if it wasnt for WAKSA then no one would be kiteing at cott these days. if you have kited cott in the last couple of years you actually owe WAKSA a big thankyou!

access issues aside i take it that you would never have been to any of the events like kitestock, down winders, bbqs, wave and frestyle comps that the guys at WAKSA put alot of time and effort into and get nothing back from it but the enjoyment of helping the sport progress and hangging out with fellow kiters at the beach

i feel very sorry for you waveslave you should come along oneday and check it out. kiteing might be fun on your own but it can be even more fun kiteing with friends.

anyway take it easy and i'll see you on the water next time i'm down in mandurah
gruezi
gruezi
WA
3464 posts
WA, 3464 posts
4 Jul 2008 9:50pm
Of course you are right Slave...you are always right.....because that is the inherent nature of groups of like minded people, they want to grow their organisation. Yea, its all about "fear and loathing," not.

Man is a pack animal I'm afraid, and the lone wolf may be right, but who gives a rats ass.
hosko
hosko
WA
393 posts
WA, 393 posts
4 Jul 2008 10:25pm
kiterdan said...



Actually, do whatever - let WAKSA decide. I'm not going to sit and cop **** for trying something whilst the forum tragics sit on their thrones with a keyboard in one hand and can of Emu Export in the other. A lot like Slave really. Good luck.


daniel, leave export out of this!
Ben De Jonge
Ben De Jonge
WA
819 posts
WA, 819 posts
4 Jul 2008 10:25pm
But Gruezi, that's pretty much what I just suggested. Maybe we just need to drop all use of the words 'Sheriff' 'Police' etc.

My point was it needs to be very casual.

What is all WAKSA members got a rash vest that they could wear when they ride?

That way it might feel like there was a strong, unified presence at the hot spots and then the casual enforcement would have some credibility and blow ins would feel like they are the odd one out.

Damo is right on too Slave, WAKSA no doubt have plenty on their plate and if it can happen at Cott it can happen at any popular beach, all it takes is one or two peeved beach users making complaints and councils will act, and they will always react in favour of the majority (non kiters) and against the fringe dwellers (kiters).

Don't knock it unless you know what they are getting up to because clearly most of their activity will always be behind the scenes.

B
cwamit
cwamit
WA
1194 posts
WA, 1194 posts
5 Jul 2008 9:50am
anyone know about the kid that had her throat cut - think her wind pipe or something was cut open by kite lines. unsure what the end result was.

i think it happened several years back and she ended up at freo hospital. i was told this story by someone that works at freo , also a good sailer - at a dinner party with other med professionals last night. just wandering if it can be confirmed.

they all thought it was odd that it wasn't reported in the media at the time.


back to this topic though.. signs would be a good start i think, not just to educate the kite surfers but the general public too on the dangers.
waveslave
waveslave
WA
4263 posts
WA, 4263 posts
5 Jul 2008 10:53am
Let's pretend for one moment that this 'fear and loathing' campaign by WAKSA is not just another membership drive.
lol.
Let's say WAKSA has a genuine feeling of dread.....
with regards to the maintaining of access to certain kiting spots.
? Have you ever heard of the saying;
"What you fear, you create".
You know,
the mind has a powerful capacity to actually create what you fear....
and then you end up having a whole new set of problems....
due to obsessing over something that wasn't even happening in the first place.

Frightening, isn't it ?
Spacemonkey!
Spacemonkey!
SA
2288 posts
SA, 2288 posts
5 Jul 2008 1:22pm
waveslave said...

Let's pretend for one moment that this 'fear and loathing' campaign by WAKSA is not just another membership drive.
lol.
Let's say WAKSA has a genuine feeling of dread.....
with regards to the maintaining of access to certain kiting spots.
? Have you ever heard of the saying;
"What you fear, you create".
You know,
the mind has a powerful capacity to actually create what you fear....
and then you end up having a whole new set of problems....
due to obsessing over something that wasn't even happening in the first place.

Frightening, isn't it ?


So slave' you don't think the recent influx on negative press about kiteboarding on tv and in newspapers, coupled with places like cott only narrowly avoiding being banned and with other councils in the process of discussing the future of kitesurfing on our beaches is cause for concern. People are trying to be proactive and avoid tackling the banning problem before the ban is actually placed, do you want it all to be banned or something? Got some personal vendetta against an association just trying to help keep all the beaches free to kite on? Taking such a hard stance on WAKSA, I can't imagine what your take on car thieves, muggers etc. would be.

Why would WAKSA be so hard pressed to increase it's membership numbers, I'm sure they are already doing just fine. Plus it is essentially a non-profit orginisation so it is not like there is a big money bath for all the WAKSA organisers. There is about a million easier ways to earn money, I don't see why you see WAKSA as the bad guy and I cannot fathom why you would have a problem with people trying to protect our access on beaches.

Unless your just a dickhead troll.
hirschausen
hirschausen
WA
422 posts
WA, 422 posts
6 Jul 2008 8:13am
Gee this is interesting,

I'm all for self regulation personally. I have to agree a little bit with Slave but reading his first post, I realized he was way off topic with his first reply then he started to make a little bit more sense after that.

Self regulation is quite simple. You are there, on the spot....so after the said offender has "kooked" out all over the place. Calmly walk up and...

Introduce yuorself
Ask if they are alright (if it was gnarly)
Enquire where they are from
Appear interested in their gear and chat about that (if you are helping pull it out of the trees)
Ask what they think of the spot
Then hand them your little flyer, which reads

IM A LOCAL, AND IN THE BEST INTEREST OF SAFETY SO THAT ALL CAN ENJOY THIS WONDERFUL LOCATION, IM GIVING YOU THIS FREE INFORMATION ON SAFETY BECAUSE I OBSERVED YOU DOING SOMETHING THAT WILL ENDANGER FUTURE ACCESS TO OUR LOCAL SPOT......

Then you can skip to the carpark singing tralala lalala (bannana split theme song) whatever floats your boat.

Communication, and self regulation always works best.

If that fails two locals against one visitor is far more intimidating, you can both make him read it.

Three would constitute a real threat to his life

Four would just be so funny to watch and listen to his heart felt, deepest apologies.

It's really not that hard is it?.



lostinlondon
lostinlondon
VIC
1159 posts
VIC, 1159 posts
6 Jul 2008 10:39am
I think WAKSA do an excellent job through their website of trying to inform people of where to kite, esp in and around Perth. Any tourist (like myself back in December) can check out the website and a list of the spots to go. I think Kitebeaches website is excellent too, though like most user created content sites, there can be big holes in the information. Decent signage at beaches where kited is forbidden would also help a lot. But there is only so much you can do. The onus at the end of the day has to stay with the kiter, who needs to do research! Before I go anywhere on a holiday I always make sure I know of the spots I could go to, just in case its better to leave the gear at home.

I'm hoping WAKSA and all the other Australian associations took the opportunity to give input into the World Kitesurfing Guide that is in the process of being published. The Europe one is brilliant. I know people are reluctant to put their "local" spots on these resources but realistically the biggest increase in beach use in WA will be from locals taking up the sport anyway.

That said, all this concern seems to only from WA! Are we not being a little over reactionary about things people? WA does seem to get its knickers in a twist about some fairly minor things, daylight savings, the new train line from Rockingham being 20% over budget, etc etc.

In Melbourne kitesurfing is just as popular (albeit the conditions aren't as good as WA, but still pretty good), and its accepted that there are a few beaches you can go to which are dedicated kiting spots. In that situation, you find kiters telling off people for being too close to them, my Mum was told not to stand on the waterline and take photos because it was dangerous, and in a few occasions it was suggested to parents with small kids it might be safer for them to walk up the beach towards Elwood, the kites look great but we don't want to hurt your kids.

Where I regularly ride in the UK, the beach is actually owned by the golf club (there were tense years before the HKA was set up) and there are conditions on kiters using it - don't launch and land 1 hour either side of high tide, be a member of Hayling Kite Association and BKSA, and don't go down to where the poleys launch. It gets bloody busy (100 people can be out on a nice day) but everyone gets along, and people walking up and down the beach are warned about the dangers, and kiters are respectful towards other beach users.

hirschausen
hirschausen
WA
422 posts
WA, 422 posts
6 Jul 2008 10:59am
Lostinlondon, obviously you are new to the breed called "westralian". Having being raised in a wondeful town named Laverton and having then lived in SA, QLD and various other places around the world which broadened my understanding of the human being. Now living in the heart of kitesurfing in WA, that being Geraldton. I think I have a reasonably strong grasp of the psyche popular over West. Well I have myself convinced that I do. You won't change that, because I'm entitled to it!. Hence the West Australian attitude.

A lot of West Aussies have grown up with ample space, ample time and simply have created their own little reality that is just right for them. No entrusion by authority and noone really to hold them accountable. If something goes wrong, we simply "fix it".

Now when some outsider appears and upsets a West Aussies Chi then furniture in the house gets rearranged quite quickly with the offending piece of furniture being the target. Since the "I'll adjust to this new phenomenon called change" is a new experience for the typical Westerner it is usually met by, resistance. So not a lot of change is welcomed because the local WA boy had it just perfect when it was all his.
(I've excluded the feminine breed as WA women are a whole nother novel which is a good giggle and would probably get stuff thrown at me, there's a glimpse of how they handle anger)

So, in a nutshell WA peole are predominantly Selfish. Not maliciously just by simple environmental factors, no need to share generally equates to no need to care. Plenty to go around, go find your own; Is a common attitude you will come across.

Now, you can get all negative about the selfishness or learn to adapt to it. Put yourself at the bottom of the pecking order, smile and wave and let them have the first and best waves with a wave and a cheer, Heck, there's going to be plenty anyway. Remember their name. Say g'day at Coles or Woolies on a Saturday morning,(but DON'T under any circumstances acknowlege their spouse,girlfriend, female companion. Wait until formally introduced.) and before you know it...your'e a local WA boy!. (You will know when you are introduced by name to a female species, by then they have encountered you enough times to remember your name) You might even be then known as a bloody top bloke too if you aren't selfish, but you won't get a choice of name from that point on, one will be allocated to you. A nickname of sorts.

But then beware, you don't turn into what you encountered. As like I said, environmental conditions inherently breed a typical response pattern.

Just remember how you started out in that spot and go from there.

I remeber a movie that kind of shows it reasonably well, once you strip away all the hollywood crap and the bankrobbing lifestyle. Anyone remember it?

Point Break I think it was, with Keannu Reeves and that dancing boy, whatever his name is.

Again, all my own opinion, you can agree, disagree, concur, point out mistakes. WHATEVER because I don't care what you think. I'm Western Australian.

Blessings to you all on this fine Sunday, I'm going up to Coronation beach with my camper trailer, and rate payer (local) card. And look out if there's some grey nomad in my favourite campsite!!.
sebol
sebol
WA
753 posts
WA, 753 posts
6 Jul 2008 1:19pm
Thank you for taking the time to reply to this rubbish wave-slave,

it is good to see someone stand up to the safety police, their crappy compulsary registration to WAKSA,crash helmet,life jacket,impact vest,launching,rigging and landing rules,jumping distance from the beach (that is a good one, if you think of it jumping high is more dangerous so there should be a hight regulation too!!).

The flyers however is a great idea, i can always do with some extra paper in my toilet, it is recycling and the glossy one feel sooo smooth.
waveslave
waveslave
WA
4263 posts
WA, 4263 posts
6 Jul 2008 6:57pm
Spacemonkey! said...
I don't see why you see WAKSA as the bad guy and I cannot fathom why you would have a problem with people trying to protect our access on beaches.

Unless your just a dickhead troll.


Nice. ^^^^
Great public relations for WAKSA, arsemonkey.

You see,
WAKSA has an important job to do.
It has a mission statement.
"WAKSA's primary objective is to maintain access to our beaches".
That's straight off the WAKSA website. ^^
They have certainly given themselves a task.
But the problem is....
WAKSA can't figure out how to do it ????
They are struggling for ideas.
That's why they post on the forum and ask for advice, some help, anything.
And as you can see, there's not much on offer.
Bummer.

"WAKSA does not make rules or regulations".
Again, straight off their website. ^^
"WAKSA guides are not a rule book, they are not enforcable".
As you can see, the Association is impotent.

But maybe the INDUSTRY has the answer.
If access is lost, the INDUSTRY has the most to lose.
Come on INDUSTRY, show us what you've got.
gruezi
gruezi
WA
3464 posts
WA, 3464 posts
6 Jul 2008 7:59pm
Good one Slave
kiterdan
kiterdan
WA
680 posts
WA, 680 posts
6 Jul 2008 9:02pm
This is NOT about forcing compulsory membership.
This is NOT about targetting Euros - it's the kooks in general (I apologise for the generalisation in the topic for the knit-pickers).
This is NOT about defending WAKSA's mission statement.

The reason behind my SUGGESTION is:

WHEN something happens this summer (and it will), the councils will approach WAKSA instead of coming up with a fancy idea amongst themselves.

If WAKSA introduces themselves, enlightens our regulators about our issues whilst maintaining that we believe in self-regulation FIRST AND FOREMOST, then surely that's more beneficial to the sport then doing nothing, waiting for some local, Euro, Asian or ****ing Afgan to crash into a little kid at Cott beach and you dumbasses asking "Gee, where is WAKSA on this one?"

And just for kicks, I'd like to point out some newbie with a 4m trainer kiter at Leighton today flying in a little over 5 knots on an Easterly and crashing it next to a family.

THAT, is just one example - and it's not even summer.
kitecrazzzy
kitecrazzzy
WA
2184 posts
WA, 2184 posts
6 Jul 2008 10:08pm
OMG, i just thought of an idea that could work... WAKSA signs at every beach

"Kiteboarding information and guidelines for Kiteboarders and spectators can be found online at www...."

$20 per sign X 20 beaches = $400

then you can target euros with something to back you up "your not following the rules". like at cottesloe, i usually tell the douches [aka people doing **** hopelessly wrong/dangerously] that the ranger is coming and you need your licence to kite here and then point to some random 50m away. i pass it off as a friendly heads up and they piss off. others might not like it but i don't kite kites getting dropped on me while im pumping up or other beach goers getting scared by out of control beginners.
westhammer
westhammer
WA
507 posts
WA, 507 posts
6 Jul 2008 10:56pm
Austeuroyankasian'citazan of da univerce, cut all dat lablein crap take a sail round da globe and c da apartheid ,enjoy wot ya do in life and take 1 step at a time az it comz.luv an peace to da eye.
kitecrazzzy
kitecrazzzy
WA
2184 posts
WA, 2184 posts
6 Jul 2008 11:22pm
^you are drunk
Please Register, or first...
Topics Subscribe Reply