Who to ask for a launch (or not)

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Lambroast
Lambroast
WA
177 posts
WA, 177 posts
22 Feb 2015 8:22am
Macster said..
I hate it when you are launching someone anf they go too deep into the wind screwing the poor bastard who picks up the kite.
Nowadays i wont pick up the kite from the beach until im happy with where the kite pilot is standing.



Tell me about it..... If you are flying the kite then it is your responsibility to be in the correct launch postion, not the kite launchers...

I've had a run of guys at my local circus lately who seem to struggle with getting into the correct launching position, even 'experienced' and quite competent kiters.
As launcher/lander I'm generally happy to help anyone (As long as I'm not in the process of setting up my own kite :)). A step or 2 either direction whilst the kiter is getting into position no problem. If you want to stand so close to me whilst I am holding your kite that the lines are slack and the wind makes the kite fold over me, then you really need to have a look at your launch technique. It's not that hard......
Loftywinds
Loftywinds
QLD
2060 posts
QLD, 2060 posts
22 Feb 2015 4:53pm
Never, EVER ask a non kiter to touch your kite, EVER!!!

you deserved what you got.
Plummet
Plummet
4862 posts
4862 posts
22 Feb 2015 3:03pm
Loftywinds said..
Never, EVER ask a non kiter to touch your kite, EVER!!!

you deserved what you got.


Why?

I've done it several times.

Hold it like this. Don't let go until you see my thumbs up.

Easy peasy.

I've never had a problem with a beach random.

The only times I've had a problem is when I've presumed a kiter knew how to launch another kite...... To my surprise he chucked the kite before the lines where tensioned.....


Loftywinds
Loftywinds
QLD
2060 posts
QLD, 2060 posts
22 Feb 2015 5:18pm
Plummet said..

Loftywinds said..
Never, EVER ask a non kiter to touch your kite, EVER!!!

you deserved what you got.



Why?

I've done it several times.

Hold it like this. Don't let go until you see my thumbs up.

Easy peasy.

I've never had a problem with a beach random.

The only times I've had a problem is when I've presumed a kiter knew how to launch another kite...... To my surprise he chucked the kite before the lines where tensioned.....




Ok. I'll rephrase... Never allow a person you DON'T know touch your kite. If you're not sure they can help you launch, then just don't. Your life and others around you is worth more than an assumption.
rockykite
rockykite
VIC
62 posts
VIC, 62 posts
22 Feb 2015 6:23pm
Plummet said..

Loftywinds said..
Never, EVER ask a non kiter to touch your kite, EVER!!!

you deserved what you got.



Why?

I've done it several times.

Hold it like this. Don't let go until you see my thumbs up.

Easy peasy.

I've never had a problem with a beach random.

The only times I've had a problem is when I've presumed a kiter knew how to launch another kite...... To my surprise he chucked the kite before the lines where tensioned.....




I'd trust myself self-launching over a beach random any day...
Skid
Skid
QLD
1499 posts
QLD, 1499 posts
22 Feb 2015 6:09pm
wishy said..
I've lost 4 kites into the trees at Melville this week.
I've lost 12 in total this summer.
I'm going to cut down every norfolk pine in this town.


Cabrinha rider?
surfgrub
surfgrub
NSW
105 posts
NSW, 105 posts
24 Feb 2015 9:35pm
Don't we launch the kite on the water side & the kiter is to the land side> Hence, to avoids\ trees, rolling along the beach, etc, & so the kite drops into the water?....
loftsofwind
loftsofwind
QLD
226 posts
QLD, 226 posts
24 Feb 2015 9:29pm
Loftywinds said..

Plummet said..


Loftywinds said..
Never, EVER ask a non kiter to touch your kite, EVER!!!

you deserved what you got.




Why?

I've done it several times.

Hold it like this. Don't let go until you see my thumbs up.

Easy peasy.

I've never had a problem with a beach random.

The only times I've had a problem is when I've presumed a kiter knew how to launch another kite...... To my surprise he chucked the kite before the lines where tensioned.....





Ok. I'll rephrase... Never allow a person you DON'T know touch your kite. If you're not sure they can help you launch, then just don't. Your life and others around you is worth more than an assumption.



Loftywinds said..
Never, EVER ask a non kiter to touch your kite, EVER!!!

you deserved what you got.




Loftywinds said..

Plummet said..


Loftywinds said..
Never, EVER ask a non kiter to touch your kite, EVER!!!

you deserved what you got.




Why?

I've done it several times.

Hold it like this. Don't let go until you see my thumbs up.

Easy peasy.

I've never had a problem with a beach random.

The only times I've had a problem is when I've presumed a kiter knew how to launch another kite...... To my surprise he chucked the kite before the lines where tensioned.....





Ok. I'll rephrase... Never allow a person you DON'T know touch your kite. If you're not sure they can help you launch, then just don't. Your life and others around you is worth more than an assumption.


wtf are you on lofty? your saying the same thing twice.

KiteBud
KiteBud
WA
1615 posts
WA, 1615 posts
24 Feb 2015 7:52pm
surfgrub said..
Don't we launch the kite on the water side & the kiter is to the land side> Hence, to avoids\ trees, rolling along the beach, etc, & so the kite drops into the water?....



This has to be the most overrated launching advice/technique. If you think about it for a few seconds...any piloting error, line tangle, bridle tangle, over-steered kite, back stalling kite, etc. would result in the kite moving towards the beach and possibly end up on the other side of the wind window, where you will typically find other kiters, dunes, bushes, trees, road, etc.

After many years of experience teaching safe launching techniques at different locations and witnessing countless failed launches, I come to the simple conclusion that the safest launching methods is to have the kite held as close as possible to the waters edge and the pilot as far as possible IN the water i.e. at least knee deep, preferably waist deep. I understand this is not always easy and perhaps not always possible but if you think about it is the safest approach as any problems/mistakes wouldn't harm the pilot (standing in the water) and wouldn't harm the kite either or anyone else standing on the beach.

If you think about the situation described by the original poster, if he had asked the assistant to hold his kite over the waters edge and walked out further in the water, the kite could not have tumbled over the land once the lines had tension even if the kite was underpowered and released too early, if would've rolled over the water i.e. no big deal! Knowing the location where it took place I know for a fact he could've easily walked much further out and still be able to stand, so even if the assistant didn't really do a good job, the pilot could've easily taken simple steps to minimize the risk.

Launching and landing safely is all about mitigating the risk. If you take shortcuts and want to do it faster you must be willing to take responsibility and pay the price if something goes wrong. As with many other things in life, the safer approach usually requires more effort and more thinking/organization.

I can't help but notice more and more kiters getting into self-launching, which is great in a way, but is often done on a crowded beach without any regards to safety and who's downwind of them...this creates even more dangerous scenarios where people get taken out by failed self-launches, when they simply could've asked those same people for help in the first place...

As I tell all my students: '' what if something goes wrong'', are you prepared?

Christian
Andrash
Andrash
WA
637 posts
WA, 637 posts
24 Feb 2015 11:10pm
Evila, if you fly a Cabrihna and you read about the history of the place, you will feel lucky to still have your kite in one piece. those funky trees love them...
PommyMike
PommyMike
QLD
22 posts
QLD, 22 posts
25 Feb 2015 4:11am
Works both ways I guess, I had a guy ask me to launch his kite with him directly upwind Admittedly there wasn't a great deal of wind but I asked if he was sure about that then moved off to the side anyway and ended up putting it up probably just a few metres down from where I normally would have as he was relentless in his thumbs up gestures. As you can imagine he got a fair old yank downwind but seemed happy enough.In cycling I often say it doesn't matter who's got right of way in the eyes of the law, I look at who's got right of way in the eyes of physics when it's me that will get hurt!
KIT33R
KIT33R
NSW
1716 posts
NSW, 1716 posts
25 Feb 2015 9:43am
PommyMike said..
Works both ways I guess, I had a guy ask me to launch his kite with him directly upwind Admittedly there wasn't a great deal of wind but I asked if he was sure about that then moved off to the side anyway and ended up putting it up probably just a few metres down from where I normally would have as he was relentless in his thumbs up gestures. As you can imagine he got a fair old yank downwind but seemed happy enough.In cycling I often say it doesn't matter who's got right of way in the eyes of the law, I look at who's got right of way in the eyes of physics when it's me that will get hurt!


This is called a hot launch. Back in the day when we had the old C kites this was really really dangerous. In light winds a hot launch on modern kites is not so bad. Not recommended but the pull is mild.
harlie
harlie
QLD
188 posts
QLD, 188 posts
25 Feb 2015 9:13am
PommyMike said..
....
In cycling I often say it doesn't matter who's got right of way in the eyes of the law, I look at who's got right of way in the eyes of physics when it's me that will get hurt!


And IMO - that is one of the best pieces of common sence I've read in a while - especially while talking cycling.
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