What ever you buy make sure its relatively recent. The older C-kites have limited depower and (some) difficult relaunch. Newer kites, both bows and C's are greatly improved in both these areas. I ride an SLE and (of course) would personally recommend an SLE/bow. They generally have greater depower and higher power per area. This generally gives them more range than even a modern C kite. This means you need fewer kites to cover a certain wind range. I rode most of last season on an 11m only.

As you've probably noticed people are not entirely in agreement on the issue. If you get the chance try to score a ride or take a lesson on the two types.

Ah the good ol bow versus c debates, it never ends which is kind of good because lets each side highlight the plus or negatives of each kind of kite.

c kites say 5th lines way to go for real safety which argument is probably most applicable with unhooking and more advanced stuff. It’s not to say when sheet hits the fan and you have to use your QR system that the 5th line argument isn’t applicable (is that double Dutch?)But then hooking up to your front line on a bow has never been a problem to me personally when I have had to initiate the QR for high wind self landing or crap situations.

What are your choices bro? New or second hand? if new well its really not much diff now with either kite types (least going off marketing), bows probably have better depower but this seasons c kites seem to all come out claiming bow like depower, I personally think depower is critical to really make strides into the sport no matter how poor stance you begin with that improves over time anyhow – some people claim learning on c kites will make you a better kiter – I think that’s just a nice way to insult peoples intelligence as well as someone whom ride bows and should best be ignored as eventually depending on what you want from the sport as you progress so might your kites performance needs,

a c kites shape still means it could loft in bad circumstances more so than the bow design is prone too. I have based that on a personal situation were an assisted launch went pear shaped and instead of a loft the kite went through power zone to the zenith - I let go of the bar and just ended with a short drag down the beach, also some arguments can be used from c kites lofting instances on the net and that dude Bruno comments in media about the safety of the bow design. (he has the patent on the bow design though so read that as you wish)

If going second hand well that’s tricky, if I bought second hand bow I would look at replacing the pulleys and changing the section were those pulleys run. that to me is the main downfall of bow kites - all that extra stuff means the kite can go wrong even without a kook hooked in the other end... c kites don’t have that extra stuff so that’s in their favor but then not many high depower second hand c kites about...might be able to pick up a Vegas for sale.

I learnt on a low aspect low performance bow, made life so easy, here's a quick story about bow versus c kites from two rider perspective, shared lessons with a dude (on c kites) and we ran into each other on the beach twice over 14 month period - at the end of 14 months the dude whom bought a c kite cabrinha and I caught up last time in Perth, he was still learning to hold ground and I was just nailing my jump transitions and learning backrolls on my new rebel which has much more performance than the bow I originally learnt on.. Now in defense of him he probably doesn’t go out as often as I do, but then maybe that’s because the bow made it so easy for me. anyhow moral of story is, he’s now looking at getting a bow - oh and it helps sometimes to have a fat wallet since there were no second hand bows out there when I got into the sport

anyhow that’s my twenty two dollars worth, I think ultimately though you have to remember people originally learnt on two line kites (I so want to try one of those) and people still learn on 4 line pre-high depower c kites – comes down to money and how easy to want to make it.. don’t think I will reply to anyone that shoots down my views as being wrong as I have put way to much effort into this already .. hehe. may the kite bashing begin.

yeh this forum place is FULL of politics and everyone argues over what is better.

Be a man and use a C -kite. Bow kites are for cheating. Kiting is going way to far now, making it "to -easy".

Go for a C kite that has a fifth line - that will get u more depower than any BOW kite will. and pretty simple relaunch.

C KITES for sure.

latas

only the best learner to advance kite peter lyn foil check it out

Kitehard is talking about what you call "Bow kites"

Somehow he managed to say "SLE" about a hundred times.

Lewis gives the answer you need!

He says Bows are "cheating" and "make kiting too easy".
Just what you need !Something that makes it easy.hy would you want to make it harder ?

5th line systems, NEW 5th line systems that is, not old stuff (2 seasons back) are safe because when you let go of the bar, the kite comes down to the water and all the action of being pulled around is over until you get the kite back in the air.

With Flat kites (SLE's, Bows) when you let do of the bar they don't drop out of the sky because they have lots of depower and tend to stay hanging up there in the sky. BUT it's not all over, they still are flying and can still move around in the sky and still have some force working through the lines. They do come down to the water under their own steam and then, they have re-launch issues IN MOST MODELS (pre-empting the attack from flat kite crew) this is their claim to the safety arguement. De-power whilst the kite is flying.

A learning kite that a school uses is the best to learn on that a reputable school uses in their fleet as they have the liability issue to deal with and will teach you on the safest possible gear as a learner. Kinda like putting trainer wheels on the front and back of a bike to teach you how to pedal so you can't possibly fall off and you learn how to pedal. You will progress though past training wheels. I liken some learner kites, including C shaped kites to trainer wheels thing, some models, you can't take the trainer wheels off when you want to progress.

Depending on what attracts you to the sport of kiteboarding will depend on how quickly you will need to get on to better/advanced equipment. How fast you progress will determine this also.

If you are really into your water sports and love the thought of progressing as far into the sport as you can with nothing that will develop dead end technique, then you will need to learn the 5th line safety system. It's not going away as some believe, it's being refined and worked each year to improve it's characterisitics. 5th line C shaped kites are still the kite of choice in competitions. They re-launch super fast and enable a wider variety of riding style.

The current market of flat kite riders will be looking this way (5th line) as they want to push their technique beyond the beginner intermediate stage in freestyle. Some, not all; will want to unhook. Second, becoming unhooked from the kite for a freedom in wave riding that can't be experienced at present with staying hooked in to the kite as most/all flat kites require; will also be a reason why the 5th line system is worth considering later.

Learn on it now may take you longer to master some basics over the flat style of kite. In todays world of delaying gratification and getting it NOW NOW NOW! this will work for you. Or do the hard work early with a 5th line. You won't get stuck in one style of riding later down the track as you progress. You wil also have added safety of knowing that when you let go of the bar the kites coming down to the same level as you, to the water. MOST flat kites have a ceiling block with technique progression due to unhookability issues of most models. Which in my opinion is a safety issue in itself.

Learning the 5th line system later? well, the majority of kiters are not there yet and may not even go there. The flat kite revolution has really only just taken off and by the time that settles there will probably be a kite in between that has the characteristics of both that will enable a C rider to adapt to the depower range easily (the easier adaption) and the flat kite rider to the unhooked feel and 5th line safety. (the much harder adaption)

So, please choose wisely and just take lessons and try stuff out, you will work it out better that way for yourself.

All above is just my opinion, I'm no expert.

simmo,

I dont always agree with User but his post

quote:

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Lewis gives the answer you need!

He says Bows are "cheating" and "make kiting too easy".
Just what you need !Something that makes it easy.hy would you want to make it harder ?

---

is right on the money.

GO THE BOW SIMMO

Hi, I'm a noob to kiting as well - I cracked my waterstarting on new years day this year

I went through exactly the same process, with similar levels of confusion I think the best thing to do is aks you instructor to let you try the different types of kite under supervision. Then bear in mind that each instructor around WA likes different kites so you can always try different instructors for different kites, if you have deep pockets, and you don't mind conflicting opinions...!

whatever kite you decide to buy I reackon the following are sensible priorities (only my opinion though!)

1.safety - latest and newest kites are much safer than those of 3 - 5 years ago. As a beginner you're gonna stuff it up a few times, so you need to be confident in the safety systems reliability and effectivness (normally not a problem with latest kites of all makes).

2. ease of relaunch - once you've stuffed up, or released your kite because you're being careful not to get into a dangerous situation, you need to be able to relaunch easily, from land and water!

If you can relaunch easily (2) and you have confidence that using your safety (1) system isn't going to cause problems / is realiable, you'll gain confidence quickly and learn a lot faster.

3. If you can buy new the kite is in perfect condition, as your first season is going to put some serious wear and tear onto it. If you decide that the sport's not for you the kite will have some residual value after 6 months or so. It's frightening how quickly this gear depreciates in value.

If you can read through magazines and forums and manufacturers websites, you'll start to get the hang of whats, what in terms of Cs, LEIs, BOWs, Foils etc and take your time in choosing the right gear for you.

I'm very happy with my kite, I got it on recommendation of my instructor. I'm sure other makes of kite would be just as good but I was able to try this model out in a range of winds during my lessons.

Hopefully you will be stoked with the kite you get as you'll stand up, do your first jumps, carves etc with that kite.

Hope that helps!

bows are safer and easier than c-shaped. no argument.
however - i learnt on c-shaped and am glad i did.
i wouldnt diss anyone who makes that choice now. and it will probably teach you the respect the kite deserves.
the biggest danger with bows - is that people end up thinking they are 100% safe. they are not.

also - worth noting - since they introduction of bow kites there has been a dramatic reduction in kiting related accidents - despite and explosion in the number of kiters.
proof enough i think.

(ps - i made that last bit up - but it seems like its true)

Kiting in "true" 40 knots doesn't sound like a whole lot of fun to me. Perth doesn't really get 40 knots unless it's frontal shiite. I don't think it matters what safety you use in these conditions - it's gonna be more dangerous than your average 20 knot day.
I would like to hear from kiters who have kited real 40 knots, is it worth it?

50 knts many occasions.

I did it, you havent

Go do it on your bow kite.

hmmmm.... 50knts many times eh.

I find it hard to believe having been a sailor for over 20 years including sailing on many racing yachts. I can tell you when it is a genuine 50knts the sea is moving sideways with constant and random white caps which are 2-3m thick. 50 knots is more than enough to move large yachts with only the rigging ie: Mast and spars no sails to catch the wind.
According to the beaufort scale 50knots is just 10 short of a hurricane

www.stormfax.com/beaufort.htm

For those who have never seen 50 -60 knot wind speeds, remember the 1998 Sydney To Hobart

"An intense low pressure system formed in the Bass Strait region of southeastern Australia during the Boxing Day long weekend of 25–28 December 1998. The explosive development of this low commenced on 26 December (Boxing Day) and reached peak intensity on 27 December 1998 with mean wind speeds reported in the 50–60-kt range.

If you saw the pictures you would have seen yachts ( with 2 tonne keels below ) being blown flat with just their rigging catching the wind ( I dont mean rolling flat due to the swell ) 115 Boats Started, 44 finished, 5 sank, 66 retired,55 sailors were taken off their yachts and six people died.

Mr NJ Pornstar

quote:

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50 knts many occasions.

I did it, you havent

Go do it on your bow kite

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.

No offence

Maybe you did do it ! but I have my reservations

what I mean is learners will probably want to go down to their local beach and watch kiters kite.haha.... well then he see's someone on a BOW kite crash their kite, then pull a back line and bang, the kite is back up at 12 o clock.

If you want to progress from the beginning slightly quicker, probly a BOW is the go, but you can only go so far with a BOW. Once you are more experience, unhooked handle pass tricks will be HARDER on a BOW kite because the way they hold more tension in the lines. Once you are very experienced u can use any kite and will be able to nail the trick, but going from a BOW to a C might be hard and take a while to get used to.

Thats just my bit advice..

TRY BEFORE U BUY..
Latas

So simmmmm069 I hope all these informative replies on your question has given you the answer you were seeking

C for unhook surfing, dangle unhook wake style or for those times you want to get out in 50 knot winds.

Bows/flats/and kites that don’t look like a c shape for learning, freestyle, hooked in wave riding and intermediate kite fun.

A few people say buy new if possible...

C kiters say go the 5th line and some will even admit (alas begrudgingly) the flat bow type kites are easier to learn on.

What does this all add up to?

Easy... buy a new north rebel...meets all the criteria’s above
I should get commision or mates rates or something for my pimp dont you think !

i started on a wip matrix (c) and now on a f-one tribal 13 i have flown a few bows n they dont stand up to the sle of the tribal good depower but not like the bows but close, but u seem to have more controle of the power with the sle, i suggest u fly them all as much as pos before buying