Storm kite - Cat or Reo?

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Plummet
Plummet
4862 posts
4862 posts
24 May 2013 7:12pm
eppo said..
so I sold that on and have now a 17m zephyr.



Wait .... back the truck up.... your now on the 17 zep?

man you swap out kites faster than I have roast dinners....

ps yes split quiver is the way and the light for me.!
eppo
eppo
WA
9793 posts
WA, 9793 posts
24 May 2013 7:20pm
Yeh was gonna email you to say your theories on kite design versus size has sort of come true for me. Nah the cat was bought for me I had no say. Tried to make it work but I'm addicted to apparent wind!!

Been working my ass off at another job to pay for it though!!

Plus ya right hence the advice to zarb!!

Yeh tap into surfingboye he knows his sh1t.
eppo
eppo
WA
9793 posts
WA, 9793 posts
24 May 2013 7:21pm
Oh yeh from my demoing I the wave works real well as.a 9m not so much as a 12. But 2014 might be different.

If ya wanna ride same size kite as surfingboye then it comes down to board choice now.

I have seen the 12m reo work very well though by a kiter whose very experienced and pretty good as what he does. Plus I just couldn't get pass the 6 pulleys but others fine with it.
zarb
zarb
NSW
703 posts
NSW, 703 posts
24 May 2013 9:46pm
Yeah the major gripe people had with the 2013 seemed to be the inconsistency in the way they felt between sizes. So now it seems they are trying to average out the performance to make it more feasible.

My current boards are 5'4" Naish Skater, and my 6'1" super thin, super rockered surfing shortboard for larger, cleaner days.

I might rob Surfingboye when I get back to NSW... take his REOs off his hands for a day.
Plummet
Plummet
4862 posts
4862 posts
25 May 2013 8:51am
So... did you get of the need for a fast turn kite for light wind eppo? or is the 2013 zep significantly faster than previous years?

ps i'm cooking a roast dinner tonight. Time for you to change out another kite or board.
zarb
zarb
NSW
703 posts
NSW, 703 posts
25 May 2013 12:02pm
Just got in from a 12knot session on my Zeph. No need to turn it!
eppo
eppo
WA
9793 posts
WA, 9793 posts
25 May 2013 10:38am
Plummet said..

So... did you get of the need for a fast turn kite for light wind eppo? or is the 2013 zep significantly faster than previous years?

ps i'm cooking a roast dinner tonight. Time for you to change out another kite or board.





No the fast turning of the 14m cat I will miss. But their is always a compromise. It just so happened my younger brother needed a bigger kite and he has just learned to plain and was looking, so was an easier decision.

Riding the cat I came to some conclusions.

One I am addicted to an efficient foil that develops apparent wind and the speed that it affords. Cats not designed for this. Above 25 knots I want something less efficient. Yes it does turn faster than previous years but more than that the new zephyr has enough edge in it without being a race kite, to satisfy my edge addiction.

Two the freestyle tricks I planned to move into are beyond my body now and I have a very bad wrenched now( which when I did it I really did think the worse, that popping sound and feel on your knee is never a good thing) to prove that.

Three it pissed me off everytime I was on the cat my brother was riding alongside me, 8kg heavier and on a smaller mako on his 11m edge!

But they are designed for different things.

Plus I'm moving forceably into the zen phase of kiting you have described in other posts plummet.


Now steady on with the roast dinner thing, I swapped out my 11 and 9m edge for a 10m (10m were not around when I got them), chucked an 8m cat at the top end for obvious reasons and I didn't buy the cat, my wife did unbeknown to me.

I always intended to choose between the two and hadnt made the decision by then. I wanted another zephyr session to make sure.

No the zephyr this year is really an exceptional kite and one I can't see many changes to next year. The cat though I would offer some suggestions although who knows which way they will go. Riders are loving the new cat. Me I think it has too much obvious grunt and has lost too much of that refined ozone feel.

But saying that I'm coming from a pure freeride perspective. For those wanting to venture into freestyle for the first time it is near on perfect!

Personally if they leave the cat where it is and I have said this before, I would strongly suggest a zephyr in smaller sizes to satisfy the ever growing freeride market. The edge can be to race orientated for some, the cat is to grunty now to obvious now for experienced free riders , the C4 has gone real C like, they need that slightly lower aspect freeride kite that gives some more latitude in the surf, even some unhooked..but again that's from where I stand. They would know which market needs what kite.

Oh yeh last point...also come to the conclusion don't farq about between 10 and 17 knots with 12 and 14m kites, just get a 17 unless you are under 70!
djdojo
djdojo
VIC
1614 posts
VIC, 1614 posts
25 May 2013 1:33pm
^^^ The roast dinner thing, and the futile denials/justifications, are cracking me up. Eppo, that you get to use so many kites I'm sure has others envious - accept it and enjoy it (ozone whore)

To be sure, the significant repositioning of Catalyst and C4 this year has thrown a few people who were used to the previous three years of continuity in the Ozone lines. However, I reckon there's still a kite for everyone. And Eppo, as you say, you're at a transition point stylewise in relation to your physical limits, so fair enough there may be some readjustments.

Adding extra models reduces the R&D that can go into each model and therefore can reduce the versatility of each model. Also, for the business to be viable, each kite model and size needs to sell a minimum number of units to justify the development costs. So there's a sweet spot to be found between having too few models and too many.

For myself, the 10m Cat has so much low end that I'm regularly the first out and last in and never thinking about bigger kites. The only thing I may add will be a 139x43 xcaliber for those days when my (reshaped) 137.5x39.5 50fifty is a bit small and draggy. But this is a thread about storm kites ... or eppo and plummet's budding long distance romance, or something ... maybe we should have a special event for ageing Ozone freeriders ...
djdojo
djdojo
VIC
1614 posts
VIC, 1614 posts
25 May 2013 2:17pm
zarb said..

7m Edge? I'm trying to imagine a small bow kite but I just can't picture it... I imagine it would look very cute


Cute like a little sledgehammer -
eppo
eppo
WA
9793 posts
WA, 9793 posts
25 May 2013 12:33pm
djdojo said..

^^^ The roast dinner thing, and the futile denials/justifications, are cracking me up. Eppo, that you get to use so many kites I'm sure has others envious - accept it and enjoy it (ozone whore)

To be sure, the significant repositioning of Catalyst and C4 this year has thrown a few people who were used to the previous three years of continuity in the Ozone lines. However, I reckon there's still a kite for everyone. And Eppo, as you say, you're at a transition point stylewise in relation to your physical limits, so fair enough there may be some readjustments.

Adding extra models reduces the R&D that can go into each model and therefore can reduce the versatility of each model. Also, for the business to be viable, each kite model and size needs to sell a minimum number of units to justify the development costs. So there's a sweet spot to be found between having too few models and too many.

For myself, the 10m Cat has so much low end that I'm regularly the first out and last in and never thinking about bigger kites. The only thing I may add will be a 139x43 xcaliber for those days when my (reshaped) 137.5x39.5 50fifty is a bit small and draggy. But this is a thread about storm kites ... or eppo and plummet's budding long distance romance, or something ... maybe we should have a special event for ageing Ozone freeriders ...




As long as plummet buys me flowers now and then i will be happy! And yeh you are dead right about minimum sales to justify a design as well as the dilution of R and D given too many lines. All true. My suggestion of a smaller zephyr is purely a selfish perspective for sure and I'm sure they are not about to bring out a design just for me!

No change in quiver really, still the edge square and centre, with the cat and zephyr either side as new purchases, not changes.

The cat was a forced upon me so to speak. But I must make sure to point out the cat is a superb design and would suite most riders. I'm an edge man deep down and we are a strange breed for sure! Lol. I wouldn't have sold the cat to my brother if I didn't think it was the BEST kite for him. His progression will be very fast now plus he's 25 and will ultimately move into the more hardcore stuff soon enough.

Alas us later X gens missed out on all the fruits of post war and then missed timed the kiting evolution as well! Typical!
zarb
zarb
NSW
703 posts
NSW, 703 posts
25 May 2013 3:00pm
djdojo, I've seen that video before and it always makes me shake my head. Crazy.

I'm not such a fan of boosting at the moment, much prefer popping on my TT and surfing on my directional with the board firmly in the water

Buuut... still early days kiteboarding, discovering my style. Who knows, I might very well end up loving massive boosts
eppo
eppo
WA
9793 posts
WA, 9793 posts
25 May 2013 2:29pm
I know cauncy is a big fan but I've been on a 7m edge in serious conditions and it like a small bee buzzing about. Sure for some it will satisfy the need for intenseness in speed and height, but to me I want the most stable kite possible in those winds. Plus in those winds you'll boost plenty high regardless.

But with me ya never know, next week i might be on a 7m edge! LOL. It is after all my fav design.
Plummet
Plummet
4862 posts
4862 posts
25 May 2013 5:43pm
sorry for the thread highjack...

ps the term is bromance..... now i'm off to do some manscaping!

now back to storm kites.

I prefer the cat for boosting 30+ knots. but the reo for waves... . . . .
djdojo
djdojo
VIC
1614 posts
VIC, 1614 posts
27 May 2013 10:55am
Just a sec, I don't want to interrupt the bromance flow, but Eppo, did you just say your wife bought you 14 and 8m Catalysts without telling you?? And did no-one else have the thought - what relationship skills are going on here!!?? No asking for permission, no hiding the purchase, not even having to make a purchase and voila - new kites. I'm impressed.
eppo
eppo
WA
9793 posts
WA, 9793 posts
27 May 2013 10:17am
No just the 14m for my 40th...I bought the 8m...and stoked with that kite.
Plummet
Plummet
4862 posts
4862 posts
27 May 2013 2:06pm
took the afternoon of and just indulged in some good old fashioned Wholesome winter storm kiting session. 3.5m swell. 25-30 knots on the 8 cat then the wind picked up and I was fully trimmed on the 8m bar out complete.. infact I let go of the bar and did some no hands kiting!.... that was about time to change to the 6 reo..... whoo yeah. 30-40 knots session on the 6 reo..

now my body is shot.
zarb
zarb
NSW
703 posts
NSW, 703 posts
27 May 2013 4:12pm
Sounds like fun. This weekend I will be able to see how far I can push my little 8m Cat. Forecast is for 30-37 knots, but I am hoping to find somewhere a little less full on.
cauncy
cauncy
WA
8407 posts
WA, 8407 posts
30 May 2013 8:03pm
on todays performance youd have to give the 7 edge a run if your thinking of a storm kite, gusts from 20 to over 30 on the anometer, on the water it was only noticable in transfer of speed , and this little kite rockets along i was hugely impressed how well it handled, a much smoother, powerfull, ride than my cat 8, set on the lightest setting at the kite and furthest setting under the floats gives a very rapid no delay input from the bar, gets around the loop great for such a high aspect kite and had great control although powered on the wave with instant power delivery when needed, no need to talk of jumping ability as the edge is superb in that department, landing are a much faster exsperience than the bigger sizes and the kite needs a bit of movement to give a similar hang, you dont get the 100% depower as the reo and cat but you dont have to work the arse off the kite as i would of on the cat or reo during the lulls, just a quick couple of strokes through the window had me flying along, first time ive owned an edge in this size but im very happy with my change from the cat and reo
eppo
eppo
WA
9793 posts
WA, 9793 posts
30 May 2013 8:29pm
Cool to gear cauncy. Must admit I'd rather be on an edge than a cat anyday. Except most of the big winds come with big swell in winter and I have found the cat to allow me to drop in much deeper in the pit and be far more aggressive where I line up on a big wave. But it will need to give the 7m another go because as I said the edge is a far superior wing.
eppo
eppo
WA
9793 posts
WA, 9793 posts
30 May 2013 8:33pm
Editor crapped itself again, man wish I could turn this stupid thing off. The cat give you that drift and also instant power when you've bitten off more than you can chew. Have to give that 7m edge a crack again though I rate what you have to say. You right on t
eppo
eppo
WA
9793 posts
WA, 9793 posts
30 May 2013 8:34pm
And crapped itself again, anyone know how to cancel this new fandandangled editor thing its ****. Will give the 7m another go you were right about the zephyr, spot on
Plummet
Plummet
4862 posts
4862 posts
31 May 2013 1:07am
yeah i'd love a 7 edge for boostathons and speed runs on the landboard. but my cat and reo makes more sense in the wave location I'm in.
cauncy
cauncy
WA
8407 posts
WA, 8407 posts
31 May 2013 7:25pm
put some brakes on the landboard, couldnt believe the speed that it creates constantly searching in the powerzone,as for riding the waves im certainly not a purist but it satisfies my flat out up the line rides, spitting you out going flat out , ive had a couple of cat 8 models and a 8 reo which i scrouged for a while this leaves them for dead if you love to ride full pelt, give one a go youll love it
Plummet
Plummet
4862 posts
4862 posts
31 May 2013 7:40pm
i'm slamin 65kph with the 6 reo on the landboard.... would love to run up and 7 edge top 70-80kph.
cauncy
cauncy
WA
8407 posts
WA, 8407 posts
31 May 2013 8:18pm
its a bit hard to judge, but ive a mate with a quad who was down the beach riding in a strong onshore, reckons he was keeping inline doing over 70kph when i was out, i read about adam koch doing 50knts downwind in 30knts of wind so shows you how efficient a kite the edge is, as i mentioned when you watch it in flight especially upwind ,its always hunting for wind.
cauncy
cauncy
WA
8407 posts
WA, 8407 posts
31 May 2013 8:28pm
eppo said..

And crapped itself again, anyone know how to cancel this new fandandangled editor thing its ****. Will give the 7m another go you were right about the zephyr, spot on


as a true lightwind kite ? but how bull**** good this kite is around 15 to 18 and beyond, carnt recognise anything about the old zephyr in this new model, clever little design on the wing tips bridle, giving a quicker turn and 0 fold when under pressure , ime having some of my best sessions on this kite, something i thought i wouldnt say, infact i get pretty excited about getting out in 15knts, sweet kite
eppo
eppo
WA
9793 posts
WA, 9793 posts
31 May 2013 10:05pm
Depends on ya weight! I was out in some sh1t ass, 9 to 13 dropping to bloody 7 on an inefficient mako today and was just holding ground. Reckon if I was on my skim I would have been fine. But my knee is terrible and also it is too bloody cold to keep falling in the water due to the fact I'm totally sh1t on it!
<div>Hey zephyr on the w18 could get you down further. Yeh it is a awesome wing. Got that edge pull at the end of the window and yet enough static pull, just right.
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