@saff:
In terms of who "started this first" debate, let me say that aside from the low scums that gave us a bad name in the first place, there was an incident where a dog ran up to a kiter at the beach and this kiter was well over 200 mtrs further down the beach towards the creek water mouth and yet the dog chased, barked and snarled at the kiter as he was walking the kite back to the beach. Look I can go on and on, but as you know, there is not just one side to the story (stories), and rumours are now rife around Altona - both good and bad.

In terms of the council's powers - I have a different view. But in terms of them respecting all views, they have failed with the situation at Dog Beach. That place could at least be a great beginners spot to rig and practice without breaking the 5knot rule and further along the beach to not disturb the dogs. The reality is, the owners of the dog think that just because they can see the beach stretch out into the distance, that they can simply allow their dogs to run anywhere and up to anyone. What if I wanted to go there for a swim with the kids!?

@adrenal:
It's about this argument where beginners should and should not kite. Dog Beach is perhaps the BEST place for a beginner to learn. All in safe distance from power lines, trees, people etc. It's just that the dog owners cannot control their dogs running up to kiters. Like I said above, what if I went for a swim.. and it is a great swimming spot. Worse is a doberman or some other large dog threatening a small toddler swimming with mom! What defence would she have? None! The place is a beach at the end of the day and the council should be promoting and protecting the interests of all users of the beach. But it seems they have given the beach away to the dogs - period. That I find is an abuse.

What he said ^^^^

Yep, it would be nice to have that beach too. Strangely, I've heard that there are people in this world that have interests other than kiteboarding...and we have to live with these people!!!! Oh the humanity!!

(Can't have everything mate)

adrenal said...
You're in the wrong forum if you have a grievance. Get onboard with KBV; Get a petition together and make a representation to council. I'll sign it!

Agree. And i intend to.

However, just one more thing... The dog owners have 13 (yes that's right) designated places including beaches, parks and even the disused salt works beach down from Altona Meadows at their disposal, for free range dog running - not to mention a further 6 or so leash only sites!!. Yet we have ONE kite beach, that as you know gets crowded and add beginners to the mix, is also dangerous to them more than anyone. Correct me if I am wrong, but we have less than 5 kite zones in the entire bay! Yet they have 13 in Altona alone.
Nuff said.

Kazan said...

adrenal said...
You're in the wrong forum if you have a grievance. Get onboard with KBV; Get a petition together and make a representation to council. I'll sign it!

Agree. And i intend to.

However, just one more thing... The dog owners have 13 (yes that's right) designated places including beaches, parks and even the disused salt works beach down from Altona Meadows at their disposal, for free range dog running - not to mention a further 6 or so leash only sites!!. Yet we have ONE kite beach, that as you know gets crowded and add beginners to the mix, is also dangerous to them more than anyone. Correct me if I am wrong, but we have less than 5 kite zones in the entire bay! Yet they have 13 in Altona alone.
Nuff said.

Altona is actually far from crowded. It's only crowded because everyone stays right at the launching spot and they make it crowded. We could have 10 spots and they'd still be crowded for that exact reason. If people used the space properly, they wouldn't have issues so you can't blame the council for that. Kiters are like sheep, they all want to hang around right near the launch spot. We also all want the flat water, instead of the chop 200m but that's hardly the councils fault. When I kite there, I normally work my way to the far side and you have no issues with overcrowding.

You also need to consider the size of the kiting zones. If you consider the shoreline at altona, st kilda etc, we actually have a fair amount of kiting area. Willing to bet waterskiiers don't have that many areas, or jetskiiers.

hpurple said...

Thing is, The dog owners are not policed in the areas they are not supposed to go. if they stayed in their area, like Kiters have to, then it wouldn't be a problem, it's fair and reasonable. However since they are venturing outside their area(s) they should be policed as Kiters are.

We have as much right to complain about this as other groups. If activities are undertaken outside a designated zone, what right does one group have over another, and why is the fine structure different?



Then again, maybe we should let bylaws be bylaws, I mean bygones.....

yup, and I've seen plenty of people write in and complain about the dogs and dog owners leaving crap on the lawns as well. dog owners don't get away with murder while kiters get the raw end of the stick.

Kazan said...

hpurple said...

Thing is, ....

I cannot agree with you more there hp. And that is the angst I have with the dog owners. They see the horizon all the way along dog beach and assume it's free for all, all dogs that is. It is not. They should not even be in the water, but alas ParksVic turn a blind eye and Briffa being a dog owner himself shrugs his shoulders. Like I said, we (kiters) have much a right tokite there under the 5knot rule. So that is why the beach is perfect for beginners. I bet if a beginner read this forum and decides to go there and away, well away from the dogs, it would not be a problem. So long as he/she rig up beyond the water line. But I bet if that happens, you can bet the doggies running up to the kiter, barking and hoofing and the owner eventually rocks up demanding the kiter rig down and to nick off. Fact this, they don't have a tree to bark at. That is all I am advocating. So enjoy dog beach Altona kiddies!!!

First off - The 5 knot rule is not there to allow you to do your sport within 200m of shore. Its there to provide passage for you to get out to the 200m area so you can go there. Most of the people want to kite close to shore because its where the flat water is which is why we have an exclusion zone for kiting at Altona within the confined area. If you can't launch and land there, it makes no sense to even kite there because the passage rule doesn't apply.

Secondly, 5 knots is walking speed. Most beginners can't control their speed. I.e its a really bad idea to have beginners kiting in a 5 knot area. If you picked up any speed (highly likely with a beginner), you'd almost certainly be over the 5 knots.

But here's a simple solution, go kite there and when kiting gets banned in the whole of Altona, we know who to direct the kiters to when they need someone to thank and given the population of Altona, you'll have a lot of "friendly" kiters who want to meet with you.

You can't kite there, get over it! Its not going to change. If you want to change it, go through the correct channels instead of bad mouthing councillors who have the ability to impact on whether we can or can't kite at Altona. The rule wasn't imposed specifically because of this complaint anyway, it's been there for a while and it's just being enforced now so tony briffa didn't impose this because of the complaints. (so good luck complaining about that) If something is already law, no councilor is going to be given hassles about enforcing an existing law because of a complaint

The reality is there is only limited kiting at Altona anyway during winter and if you get out often enough at Rosebud and other places during winter, you'll be good enough to kite at the normal location in Altona anyway so it shouldn't affect you.

Sure Borak! Case closed.

Agreed!