G'day everyone,

Im getting some Fallshaw wheels for a little landsailing project and as I haven't seen one (of the Fallshaw brand), I was wondering how 1" ID bearings are fitted in them? I had a look at some other plastic wheelbarrow wheels I have around and there isn't a shouldered area for a precision bearing to sit; are the Fallshaws the same? What have others done to fit 1" ID bearings in the Fallshaw plastic 400x8 wheels?

I assumed they would accept a precision bearing without modification as they are generally recomended as the best landsailing wheelbarrow wheels. Forgive the 20 questions but Ive already welded 1" axles in the machine and have the wheels on order

Sorry, I forgot to add that I mean't bearings without a shoulder.

Also, are shouldered bearings ok to use and Im just over complicating the whole scenario?

Hi Lachlan, I recently bought fallshaw wheels that came fitted with the pressed steel "deep groove" bearings. They bearings are quite cheap at around $5 each. They are 50.8mm (2") OD and 25.8mm (1") ID and they are a pressed or tap fit into a shouldered recess in the wheel that is 12.3mm (1/2") deep. These bearings however have a lip on the outer edge that prevents them from being pressed right into a wheel that has a straight bore.

Take care when tapping them in or out, that the dolly you use is only bearing on the solid steel inner race of the bearing. Otherwise you will damage the pressed metal casing of the bearing and render it useless.

Important also is the method you use to retain the bearings on the axle. If you are only using a retaining pin through the axle you run the risk that if or when the bearing binds that it will spin on the axle without lubrication and then damage the axle.

If you are using a bolt or threaded rod, as I am, it is important that you have a spacer sleeve on the axle between the bearings so that you do not preload the bearings when you tighten the retainer nut. My sleeves at 77mm long are 1mm longer than the distance between the bearing recess shoulders to ensure that there is no preloading on the bearings.

I am using what are called "Half nuts or lock nuts" on the axle. They are only half the thickness of a normal 1" UNC nut and therefore a saving in weight is achieved. That is not the real benefit of these nuts though. These nuts are fully machined threads and faces as opposed to the roll forming of normal 1" nuts and therefore give a more accurate fit up. They look better too.

At BSC they have available 2"x1"x1/2" precision steel sealed bearings but at $18 each they are more than 3 times the price of the deep groove bearings. These precision bearings are designed for use in high speed machinery on pump shafts and as main bearings on crank shafts but in a relatively clean environment.

The deep groove bearings are designed for use on trolleys and wheel barrows.

On a land yacht our usage requirement is somewhere between those two applications. The precision bearings will more than meet the loading demands we have but sooner or later grit will get past the seals and ruin the bearing. (The more expensive the bearing the sooner it happens.[}:)])

The deep groove bearings are not designed for our loading requirements but if regularly flushed and lubricated I believe they will do the job at a fraction of the cost. Regular maintenance is critical though as bearings can overheat fairly quickly and in a plastic hub this can have catastrophic results. Go back through the photo section for an example. I bet they had fun that day.

Gizmo is an advocate of using slightly sloppy bearings on a land yacht as they will self align under load and give better yacht performance. I tend to agree.

Another alternative is the "ZZ" bearings. These appear to fall between the deep groove and precision bearings. They might be the ideal for us. I have noticed several of the blokarters are now using them. I will be investigating them soon.

Have a look at the "Technical Tips- bearings" in the construction section. Kody has given a great description of them there. When it comes to this sort of subject, he is the man.

I have had my axles in the vise with the fallshaw wheels mounted and have sprayed liberal amounts of Inox into the bearings. When I spin the wheel by hand I am getting more than 100 residual revolutions of the wheel before it stops. Due to the drag of the seals on precision bearings I doubt I would get that many. The deep groove bearings are noisy as hell but they keep on turning.

Hope this is of help to everybody. Cheers Cisco.

fallshaw supply a plastic insert which fits into thier plastic wheels,

the prescision bearings fit into the insert- dead easy to fit and swap out at a later date if your bearings need replacing.

sorry but I can remember the part number- but it probably is on one of the famous lake lefroy mini landyacht drawings (cadiw series)

"Wildfire" used elcheapo pressed bearings which lasted for more than a season, But they did have a lot of oil used on them... I worked on the idea that "if oils coming out then there would be minimal grit getting in"

I have just been reading the posts about bearings. Some of the submitted info is not quite correct. The letters ZZ on bearings refer to the type of seals used. It does not indicate or sugest that the bearing lies somewhere between Deep Groove and precision bearings. Precision bearings are made with very close tolerances and very small clearances. Precision bearings are most often of the Angular Contact style modified to have a deep grove in the inner race. The outer race is or may be of the angular contact design. There are deep groove precision bearings that are called as such by virtue of closer tolerances. These are stated as C1 thru to C5. These bearings are used where minimum noise is desired and must have the correct form of lubrication, however, they are still Deep Groove bearings. Properly notated precision bearings are used where precise location of rotating parts or sliding parts are required as in CNC machines.

Bearings with the letters Z or 2Z have metal shields to keep out contaminates like sand and dirt etc. but the dirt will still penetrate into the bearing. A bearing with either one or two seals is best but they come at a cost which is friction. A better sealing style is to use a seal with the suffix "RZ". These seals are superior to the ZZ style as the seals fit closer to the inner race but do not quite touch it. This alows speeds similar to a shielded bearing but keeps the dirt and grit out much better.

For sand yacht wheels, I would recomend the standard deep groove bearing of normal clearances and having only one RZ seal on the outsides of the assembly. This bearing is the only bearing that will handle the enormous axial loads produced by the sand yacht. These axial loads will eventually destroy the bearing but these are the best and cheapest to use. There are obviously other types that will handle even greater forces but these are larger, heavier and require precision machined parts, eg. tapered roller bearings. When I come up to Rydges, I hope to have the rear axles of my C5 finished having only one seal and two fully enclosed angular contact bearings to show you all. I have redesigned the bearing housings to fit the Fallshaw wheel hubs. The housings are smaller, are made in two parts for each wheel and will be very easy to ajust. They will cope totally with the heavy axial loads and will run in an oil bath.
There is no way that anyone can load a deep groove bearing with a radial load when used on a land yacht, that will cause it to fail or overheat. If the bearing get hot it is caused by lack of lubrication or sand has entered into the bearing and it's being crushed by the balls or jambed in the ball cage. The most common cause is being crushed by the balls and creating a grinding compound that will destroy the bearing.

Kody

A bit of history on bearings used on class 5's on salt over 27 years.
Metal seals rust up quicker and should be avoided. if you pull out the seal to free it up youll bend it and its U/S
the pressed "deep groove" bearings that were available in the 80's were of a much better quality that those available today, MUCH BETTER. I put togther a mini for one our club members with these bearing, and threw them away after 1 sail.


so do yourself a favour ,open your wallet and save time and money NOW by building a good wheel with precision bearings to start with

Either fit the 2" OD precision bearings straight into the wheel, or the nylon housing and the 6204 (47mm ) OD precision bearings.
all easy

The 2"x1" precision bearings the storeman said were good for these wheels are costing me $6.50 ea, wait a sec..... x6 of = $39.00. I specifically said don't worry about getting the bearings usually supplied and go straight to a better (Im assuming) quality from the beginning. Anyway, I got a call today saying they were here so I'll maybe pick them up tomorrow and see what I have.

lachlan3556 said...

The 2"x1" precision bearings the storeman said were good for these wheels are costing me $6.50 ea, wait a sec..... x6 of = $39.00. I specifically said don't worry about getting the bearings usually supplied and go straight to a better (Im assuming) quality from the beginning. Anyway, I got a call today saying they were here so I'll maybe pick them up tomorrow and see what I have.

Which store???, BSC, CBC, SKF, Blackwoods????? I have been buying the 6202 bearings for the blokart at around $3.00 each from BSC. The 2"x1"x1/2" precision bearings are not a common size apparently.

More info needed, please supply. Ch Ci (Cheers Cisco with a smiley.)

gidday all,
Alota good info in here. I inadvertently stuck my head ina noose with my new fit out wheels and bearings lil-o-smartarze me. For my new 6 wheel undercarriage i found some new wheels, about 250wide x400 high. Said to be the new super dooper wide wheelbarrow wheel set up. They retailed in Adelaide at $110 +gst. I actually bought only four for the arse end as i had 2@400x150 on hand for the front steer.
Then i had them machined to take tapered roller bearings, machining the outside of the hub so that the nylok wheel nut didn't protrude past the tyre where it may catch on someones leg.
next i had the inside of the hub machined to have a disk brake rotor attached to my 2 braking wheels. The other 2 rear wheels will revolve freely.
My axles are 25mm id . Problems were encountered after the purchase of my wheels. When they were placed in a lathe. they would not spin true. Chink tollerances. They had to be tweaked and a very good lathe man is needed here as, as it is tweaked the alignment changes, so maybe the brake rotor does not run true. so be careful even when one spends lotsa moolah, doesn't mean its perfect.
After my machining bill was handed to me, and i stopped chocking $1300.00. I was expecting round the $500 mark. Blew the bejeezes outa of this old mans budget.
I think I probly underestimated the welding also and i am fairly sure that that's blown too. Hopefully though it may soon be standing on its new legs and then i will past a photie or 2. So if ya hear of a penni doing a bank, probly be me [}:)]

Hi Lachlan,
You are a busy man!!!

Just a little tip I got from Paul about fitting bearings to plastic wheels, especially if using the plastic adapters for 6204 bearings.

Instead of tapping or bashing them in, which can lead to misalignment or damage, make up a press by using a bolt or threaded rod and nuts with plates drilled to the bolt size or even thicker large series washers and press them in by tightening the nut/nuts. If the bolt or rod is the same size as the bearing inner dia, they should press in nice and true and there will be no bounce effect that you can get when hammering bearings in.

If you want to go down to the 6204 bearings with 20mm axles, your local Fallshaw wheeler dealer can get from Fallshaw the plastic adapters for these bearings. I believe the part number is "6204 housing". I just bought a set of 6 from our dealer here for about $2.60 each.

Also click here www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=49335 for some really good info from Joe. Cheers Cisco

landyacht said...

Can you put up a photo of the special high tech machine you just described there cisco!!!!!

Yeah Righto. I actually found one lying around the garage at Yeppoon. No one could figure out what it was until this bloke who arrived late said that it was a wheel bearing press.

OK ... im interested where can i get more info on the rims? or better still where can i get a set?

what do you call not cheap ... guestimate $$$$

Will be looking into the rims , as put up by Bas ,will they take the side load of a kite buggy?