Hey Serb
you can have confidence in your old Yanmar! Those old engines go forever. When Dave McKay ran the boatyard at Botany Bay Yacht Club, he inherited Doug Charmers' old plywood ex world war 2 workboat which sank periodically. It had the old Yanmar 8 hp. Probably a YSE8 or whatever was around in the early 1970s.
after each sinking the Yanmar would get a good flush out with diesel, then oil, followed an internal 'rinse' with more diesel. and off if would go again till it sank again! Over 40 years it had maybe 2 rebuilds and was still going when the boat was scrapped, removed to live on elsewhere.
Dave also had an old salvaged Yanmar 8 on his old steel mooring barge to run the winch. That used to sink periodically too ( haha those were the days!) Once it sank off the Airport and it took 2 weeks of dragging to find if! After a good clean out ( I think he might have actually removed the head on that occasion) it lived on for many more years..
I remember one day I helped Dave raise the old workboat after it sank and was using it again about 2 hours later.after a good flush out and about 2 cans of aerostart! Cheers. Keith.

kjman55 said..
Hey Serb
you can have confidence in your old Yanmar! Those old engines go forever. When Dave McKay ran the boatyard at Botany Bay Yacht Club, he inherited Doug Charmers' old plywood ex world war 2 workboat which sank periodically. It had the old Yanmar 8 hp. Probably a YSE8 or whatever was around in the early 1970s.
after each sinking the Yanmar would get a good flush out with diesel, then oil, followed an internal 'rinse' with more diesel. and off if would go again till it sank again! Over 40 years it had maybe 2 rebuilds and was still going when the boat was scrapped, removed to live on elsewhere.
Dave also had an old salvaged Yanmar 8 on his old steel mooring barge to run the winch. That used to sink periodically too ( haha those were the days!) Once it sank off the Airport and it took 2 weeks of dragging to find if! After a good clean out ( I think he might have actually removed the head on that occasion) it lived on for many more years..
I remember one day I helped Dave raise the old workboat after it sank and was using it again about 2 hours later.after a good flush out and about 2 cans of aerostart! Cheers. Keith.

That little story just warmed my heart. I could just picture that, thanks Keith!

So glad to hear you are never going to use that engine to move the boat.
A great example of how robust diesels are.
And please ,you are never going to use that engine to move the boat.

kjman55 said..
Hey Serb
you can have confidence in your old Yanmar! Those old engines go forever. When Dave McKay ran the boatyard at Botany Bay Yacht Club, he inherited Doug Charmers' old plywood ex world war 2 workboat which sank periodically. It had the old Yanmar 8 hp. Probably a YSE8 or whatever was around in the early 1970s.
after each sinking the Yanmar would get a good flush out with diesel, then oil, followed an internal 'rinse' with more diesel. and off if would go again till it sank again! Over 40 years it had maybe 2 rebuilds and was still going when the boat was scrapped, removed to live on elsewhere.
Dave also had an old salvaged Yanmar 8 on his old steel mooring barge to run the winch. That used to sink periodically too ( haha those were the days!) Once it sank off the Airport and it took 2 weeks of dragging to find if! After a good clean out ( I think he might have actually removed the head on that occasion) it lived on for many more years..
I remember one day I helped Dave raise the old workboat after it sank and was using it again about 2 hours later.after a good flush out and about 2 cans of aerostart! Cheers. Keith.

Going to check is everything is ok today, so I can go and sail a bit this morning. Yes YSE8 or YSB8 are really bulletproof. The only thin that I don't like is the starting process. It takes a while to start and starter motor will die like this. can't wait till mechanic makes it perfect. Now I am glad that I Nanni of beta can not fit into Tasman.
stay safe

Kinora said..

Hi Woko, the British engine firm Napier took that concept a long way, see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napier_Deltic.

Those Napier Deltics were fitted to our old mine sweepers.

They had an annoying habit of revving to destruction and flying into pieces in a couple of seconds if the govenor failed.

One of our engineering officers was in the engine room when that happened and it made him a nervous wreck. He had a gap in his front teeth through which spittle ejected when he was talking. We knick-named him "The Tooth Dairy". Some ex pussers here might remember him.

stray said..
Hi Serb,
I hope you can find someone to rebuild that engine for you.
I like to point out a couple of things that may help in the future.
Firstly very few sailing yachts are engineered to maintain hull speed or even achieve hull speed at all.
Travelling at hull speed is a bit like driving in your car at the top speed on the speedometer.
Even your new Hanse won't be designed to cruise at hull speed regularly unless it has some kind of engine upgrade.
It would greatly benefit you to practice sailing in stronger winds, get familiar with reefing and reducing sail. A boat like the Tasman 26 is more than capable to sail home in heavy weather with the right sail combination.
let the engine be a back up as it was designed to be, not a go to when the wind gets up.
Do yourself a good deed and practice your reefing and sailing in stronger conditions.
Also it may be worth looking outside of Sydney for an engine rebuilder.

Thanks,

Yesterday I went to a sail I just couldn't wait. Of course on the way back to mooring engine got hot and died on me. I achieved 5 knots motoring. What is coming through my head is to inspect an exhaust elbow. Why would an engine died when getting hot. Diesel is normally getting happier when hotter. Impeller is working, water is cooling the engine and there is no issues on that side. It could be that blocked exhaust is actually causing engine to die and low compression. Any suggestions how to remove it safety without breaking anything?

thanks

stray said..

Serb1980 said..


Thanks,

Yesterday I went to a sail I just couldn't wait. Of course on the way back to mooring engine got hot and died on me. I achieved 5 knots motoring. What is coming through my head is to inspect an exhaust elbow. Why would an engine died when getting hot. Diesel is normally getting happier when hotter. Impeller is working, water is cooling the engine and there is no issues on that side. It could be that blocked exhaust is actually causing engine to die and low compression. Any suggestions how to remove it safety without breaking anything?

thanks

Hang on,
it got hot and died, impeller working etc.
So is water exiting with the exhaust but it is still getting hot. Did the new head gasket you made have holes for all the cooling and oil passages?
On the subject of getting happier hotter, sea water cooled engines are designed to run at about 50 degrees C any hotter and they block up with salt deposits. If you connected some hoses up wrong it could be just pumping water out the exhaust not through the motor, or was there no water out the exhaust which is why you think it's blocked?

Pulley out the exhaust elbow. Blocked! Now soaking in petrol till tomorrow. Really wondering to see what will happened tomorrow when clean elbow is back. If the black smoke is still coming of chocking engine than is an air intake or injector. Otherwise I will call mechanic to pull a part and rebuild it from scratch with fixed bore and new piston end rings.

Too little space to work on it inside the boat using mirrors. Enough is enough. Even thinking of call beta and give them 14k and I am in peace with a new engine of 14hp.

Instead of sailing I am spending hours/ days trying to repair this engine. Getting sick of it!

Didn't even tried once to pull a spinnaker on my boat!!! Really getting sick of this. Boat is there to have fun and to enjoy the harbour and life not to suffer like this! Honestly..

Serb1980 said..

Pulley out the exhaust elbow. Blocked! Now soaking in petrol till tomorrow. Really wondering to see what will happened tomorrow when clean elbow is back.

It won't be clean after soaking in petrol!!

Use what Shaggy suggested from Bunnings: Bondall 5L Hydrochloric Acid.

Serb1980 said..

................................ Getting sick of it!

Get used to it!!

To clarify, as per a prior photo in one of your posts which I interpreted was your boat, your Tasman has not been modified - it is simply the fractional rigged version. Most were built with the standard mast head rig version. The fractional rig version involves a mainsail of longer luff and foot, and hence a higher mast overall with a tapered upper end. The hounds are located down from the masthead - the hounds being where the genoa and jibs halyard goes to - hence the term fractional rig. The mast is stepped a bit further forward to ensure the centre of effort of the sail plan (mainsail area plus foretriangle area) remains in the same place as the original design standard masthead rig. The keel and rudder were not altered in any way as far as I know. I assume the "extra pair of backstays" you refer to are the runners each side of the mainsail, from the transom to the hounds, to assist in getting enough forestay tension with the original in-line spreaders. The fractional rig design has numerous benefits and in the hands of an experienced crew would be one of the reasons to explain why your boat was a champion for many years.

shaggybaxter said..

Serb1980 said..

Lazzz said..

Serb1980 said..

Pulley out the exhaust elbow. Blocked! Now soaking in petrol till tomorrow. Really wondering to see what will happened tomorrow when clean elbow is back.

It won't be clean after soaking in petrol!!

Use what Shaggy suggested from Bunnings: Bondall 5L Hydrochloric Acid.

Serb1980 said..

................................ Getting sick of it!

Get used to it!!

Bunnings was closed yesterday. Anyway made a bbq and burned all carbon in charcoal. once back made some improvement but still the same sickness!. As soon as alternator belt is added engine is struggling for 30 sec to catch full revs.

When try to engage the prop engine is getttibg weaker. If is only to charge batteries it would be ok but I need a hull speed when kids on board and sailing outside the heads. Tasman has been modified (mast is extra 3m tall, bigger Genoa, an extra pair of back stays etc.. ) with my expertise I get in trouble very quickly out side the heads. NEED hull speed And a reliable engine. I don't have time to play with a lighter in air intake for YSE to start while outside is madness all of a sudden.
I love my YSE8 but I am serious thinking to call Beta and get 14hp for 11k and another 3 for installation. My Tasman has been a champion for many years and I want to continue that in the honour of her late owner. I want to go down to Adelaide where the boat has been racing (From Adelaide to Port Lincon and many others.). Still struggling what to do! Pay 3-4K and have reconditioned YSE or 14k, lot of fun and piece of mind for next 20.

If reconditioned property YSE will save a lot of money and I can use that money for new sails!

??????????

Hiya Serb,
You seem to refer to 'needing hull speed' as having an iron engine that can push the boat to hull speed. Is that right?
I get why you want a reliable engine, that's logical. But I don't get why you think its a solution for getting home in foul weather,
In nearly all cases, sailboats need to use sails as propulsion in foul conditions, not the diesel. Its not just about the power (which is heavily favoured toward sails)., A yacht under engine is an entirely different beast than when under sail. It's motion will be more aggressive and its yaw/pitch/roll is more pronounced. It's uncomfortable to say the least and debilitating at worse.
Even the best diesel in the world won't change that.
I would:
- reco/repair the YSE8;
- learn how best to reduce sail area on the Tasman;
- use the spare change to buy sail/s that help you to easily reduce sail plan.
Cheers!
SB

Thanks,

I am getting faster and faster to furl in the Genoa. That was the issue before. I need the engine to help me run into harbour without completely turning the boat upside down. Hate to repair broken windows and dry the boat inside. It's not always like this most of the time is indescribable joy but ones I got in so much trouble I really got scared. I thought it's over. The funny thing is everyone is saying plan your trip! Yes it was planed and from 11 knots of wind I ended up in the middle of the hurricane. Rain and wind was so strong that I could see 50m from me. 20 min later is just like nothing has happened. No wind at all..
This is sick honesty and when that happens, twice a year I want to make sure that I am ready.

When it comes to cruising with my wife and kids engine must be strong and hull speed must be on so I can take then further that harbour bridge. ( H bridge is the furthest point I took them because of 3-4 knots max instead of 6.5). Made a small silencer of break cleaner long cane with a few small holes to breath an old air filter sponge inside to cancel the noise so they don't complain ( especially wife??). Today I didn't feel well when I saw that oil is coming from crankshaft valve into the sea. Stopped the engine immediately. That is an environmental hazard! I will give a go with Hume Marine for repatriation otherwise new Beta 14 is coming. In that case I will give my YSE and a spare YSM to some of you for free who will take care of that engine. I will keep informing you that is going on.

Take care and thank you for the advice!

I need the engine to help me run into harbour without completely turning the boat upside down. Hate to repair broken windows and dry the boat inside.

Hiya Serb,
This is the part where we disagree. Your engine is not a 'get out of jail' card. Reducing sail is.
This is a good video of being pressed with too much sail area. This is an S&S 40 on flat water in a lake trying to downsize before a squall comes through.
At first they are doing good. The kite is down by 1.30. Then they slack off, taking till 3.30 to clear away the pole. At 4 mins they start to get the jib down. At 4.20 the squall hits and they are now in the poo.
What I want to draw your attention to is at 5.00 mins where they round up. They are pinned, he's lost his go forward and all effective steering. They need to reduce sail area to get her back on her feet.

At this point, lets decide to start the diesel. This brings to mind the following points:
-- How do I get to the start button?
-- Are there ropes overboard?
-- Is the cooling inlet still in the water?
-- Do I have steerage?
-- Will the prop be able to have enough drive to have any effect?

I would argue that starting the engine is the last thing I want to be doing, especially shorthanded. What I would definitely be doing is focusing on the need to reduce sail area and get control. which in nearly all cases is....REEF! Or as a bare minimum, dump.. and lash away...the main.
In most cases, by the 5.00 min mark in the vid your window is gone, you now have a marginal chance of getting your main reefed or down, its now a case of ride it out and hope you don't lose a window and fill the boat. Or lose someone over the side.
The solution has always been, reef early and often. I gotta be blunt mate, If you want to sail outside the heads it is incumbent on you to have these skills. That's a serious patch of water, no way would I attempt to sail through there if I couldn't reef my boat quickly and effectively.

You are the skipper, that comes with serious responsibility. When I'm not sure what I should do, I imagine standing in a dock at a coroners court explaining my actions on that day. If there were mechanisms available to me that were not used due to a lack of knowledge or training, and my only justification was "but I put a bigger engine in the boat"....how do you think that will be viewed?
Sort your diesel out and then please, please learn how to reef your boat effectively.
All the best to you Serb,
SB



Btw, these guys went on to win the race so they are not just weekend warriors. Bad weather catches out good guys too.
Reef early, often.

what I am constantly referring here is a scenario when you have strong westerly wind and almost none sails but trying to get back through the heads as fastest as possible to avoid broken windows and boat full of water.

So am I, but I must be doing it badly.
I'll gracefully retire mate as I don't want to confuse the topic further,,
Wish you the best with sorting out the engine.
Cheers!
SB

Have a look at Cammd's post recently in the "what did you do on your sailing boat today" area.
The Yankee stay sail is a great combination that allows you to reduce sail quickly and easily. Reduce sail, not completely get rid of sails.
Maybe a set up like this would be better for you sailing single handed.

tarquin1 said..
You are being given information again by very experienced sailors. Who are taking their time to try and help you. Having to rely on your engine will only get you in trouble one day.
There are lots of books and videos about heavy weather sailing. I don't think start you engine and drop all the sails is in any of them!
Also imagine you have an accident in your boat when you knew the engine was not good. Explaining that to the police or rescue people! Imagine the rescue people have to save you because your engine stops AGAIN and their is a real accident but they are busy towing you. Stop using your boat until the engine is fixed properly would be a good start.

UncleBob said..

tarquin1 said..
Have a look at Cammd's post recently in the "what did you do on your sailing boat today" area.
The Yankee stay sail is a great combination that allows you to reduce sail quickly and easily. Reduce sail, not completely get rid of sails.
Maybe a set up like this would be better for you sailing single handed.

Your advice is on the money, however one needs to learn how to sail first.

Agreed

Serb1980 said..

Instead of sailing I am spending hours/ days trying to repair this engine. Getting sick of it!

Didn't even tried once to pull a spinnaker on my boat!!! Really getting sick of this. Boat is there to have fun and to enjoy the harbour and life not to suffer like this! Honestly..

Quote: "Believe me, my young friend, there is NOTHING - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats." - Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows

I think working on boats is part of the joy, I know I spend more time working on mine then sailing it, it was never purchased as a "project" boat, I think you could buy a brand new one and still spend more time working on them then sailing.

I have been watching the Tally Ho rebuild on youtube, someone asked Leo what will happen to his channel when he finishes the rebuild, he replied that a boat is never finished.

For myself I am looking forward to doing some extended cruising down the track, I am lead to believe that's really just doing repairs in different locations.