Forums > Sailing General

ELBE No 5 sinks after collision

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Created by shaggybaxter 3 months ago, 16 Jun 2019
stray
SA, 128 posts
17 Jun 2019 4:43PM
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Its pretty clear that the guys on the tiller were not used to tillers and pushed it to port instead of turning to port.

Shanty
QLD, 487 posts
17 Jun 2019 5:40PM
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stray said..
Its pretty clear that the guys on the tiller were not used to tillers and pushed it to port instead of turning to port.



Or it was just the last attempt at getting on the other side of the ship. Maybe there was some shallow water on the schooners port side. That's why they weren't going that way, i personally would rather hit the bottom then get run down by a ship don't know about you guys.

Lets be fair though. Someone who doesn't know how to control the boat shouldn't be sailing it in a busy shipping area, should they?

FreeRadical
WA, 841 posts
17 Jun 2019 4:01PM
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Traditionally, an order to port would have been for the tiller to be moved to port and hence a turn in starboard direction. Perhaps the guys on the tiller were just maintaining the spirit of the era.

In the titanic movie, many belie the "hard to starboard" scene was in error with the guy turning the wheel to port, but that's the way it was back then.

stray
SA, 128 posts
17 Jun 2019 5:36PM
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stray said..
Its pretty clear that the guys on the tiller were not used to tillers and pushed it to port instead of turning to port.


Actually after watching that a few times it looks like the guy in navy or black who seemed to be in charge was intending to cross the ships bow and expected it to change course.
No amount of horn blowing could fix that situation.

Shanty
QLD, 487 posts
17 Jun 2019 6:44PM
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stray said..

stray said..
Its pretty clear that the guys on the tiller were not used to tillers and pushed it to port instead of turning to port.



Actually after watching that a few times it looks like the guy in navy or black who seemed to be in charge was intending to cross the ships bow and expected it to change course.
No amount of horn blowing could fix that situation.



Didn't work on this occasion did it?

Sectorsteve
NSW, 2153 posts
17 Jun 2019 6:50PM
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stray said..
Its pretty clear that the guys on the tiller were not used to tillers and pushed it to port instead of turning to port.


Even still. Skipper should have been on that well before.

Donk107
TAS, 2239 posts
17 Jun 2019 7:14PM
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stray said..
Its pretty clear that the guys on the tiller were not used to tillers and pushed it to port instead of turning to port.


Looking at all the lines hanging off both sides of the tiller I assume the schooner is normally steered with a wheel and in a panic they pushed the tiller in the same direction as they would normally turn the wheel

You would also assume that at least the skipper was experienced (even if the crew were not) and it was just a stuff up in a stressful situation

Regards Don

Shanty
QLD, 487 posts
17 Jun 2019 7:18PM
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Donk107 said..



stray said..
Its pretty clear that the guys on the tiller were not used to tillers and pushed it to port instead of turning to port.





Looking at all the lines hanging off both sides of the tiller I assume the schooner is normally steered with a wheel and in a panic they pushed the tiller in the same direction as they would normally turn the wheel

You would also assume that at least the skipper was experienced (even if the crew were not) and it was just a stuff up in a stressful situation

Regards Don




Imagine the builders watching this video after the boat survives 140 years. They would probably think "Jesus Christ how did the boat end up like this".
PS a joke. Don't take me to seriously I don't reckon I could sail a 140ft yacht in a busy shipping channel.

Donk107
TAS, 2239 posts
17 Jun 2019 7:21PM
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Shanty1 said..

Donk107 said..


stray said..
Its pretty clear that the guys on the tiller were not used to tillers and pushed it to port instead of turning to port.




Looking at all the lines hanging off both sides of the tiller I assume the schooner is normally steered with a wheel and in a panic they pushed the tiller in the same direction as they would normally turn the wheel

You would also assume that at least the skipper was experienced (even if the crew were not) and it was just a stuff up in a stressful situation

Regards Don



Imagine the builders watching this video after the boat survives 140 years. They would probably think "Jesus Christ how did the boat end up in these idiots hands".


I would not be to hard on them as we all make mistakes but most are not as public as this one

It will be interesting to read the investigation report and see what all those involved were thinking

Regards Don

Shanty
QLD, 487 posts
17 Jun 2019 7:25PM
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Select to expand quote
Donk107 said..

Shanty1 said..


Donk107 said..



stray said..
Its pretty clear that the guys on the tiller were not used to tillers and pushed it to port instead of turning to port.





Looking at all the lines hanging off both sides of the tiller I assume the schooner is normally steered with a wheel and in a panic they pushed the tiller in the same direction as they would normally turn the wheel

You would also assume that at least the skipper was experienced (even if the crew were not) and it was just a stuff up in a stressful situation

Regards Don




Imagine the builders watching this video after the boat survives 140 years. They would probably think "Jesus Christ how did the boat end up in these idiots hands".



I would not be to hard on them as we all make mistakes but most are not as public as this one

It will be interesting to read the investigation report and see what all those involved were thinking

Regards Don


Yeah your right mate, I mean I don't fancy sailing a massive 140ft sailing boat in a busy channel. Especially if they where paying guests all asking questions and prancing around. Will edit my last post at the bottom to avoid "looking like a know-it-all" and being a d!ckhead in general.

Kankama
NSW, 227 posts
17 Jun 2019 7:28PM
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In the old days before AIS I had a few moments in Moreton Bay where I could not make out whether a ship would pass me one side or another or plow into me. In that case the shallow areas are your safe zone. So we sought out the shoals and waited over them in 5 metres or so (it was night of course) until the ship had made a course change.

Shoal water (mud and sand) is your friend in these situations. Just the other day a friend and I were sailing my cat in Newcastle. He wondered if I wanted to stay in the channel - "Not at all" was my reply. Shipping channels are often for boats that draw about 10-15 metres. So we should leave the channel to them and seek shelter in the shoals, for they will usually not be shoals for us (but you better check the chart in case).

The buggers can't hit you if they can't reach you.

cheers

Phil

Shanty
QLD, 487 posts
17 Jun 2019 7:30PM
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Kankama said..
In the old days before AIS I had a few moments in Moreton Bay where I could not make out whether a ship would pass me one side or another or plow into me. In that case the shallow areas are your safe zone. So we sought out the shoals and waited over them in 5 metres or so (it was night of course) until the ship had made a course change.

Shoal water (mud and sand) is your friend in these situations. Just the other day a friend and I were sailing my cat in Newcastle. He wondered if I wanted to stay in the channel - "Not at all" was my reply. Shipping channels are often for boats that draw about 10-15 metres. So we should leave the channel to them and seek shelter in the shoals, for they will usually not be shoals for us (but you better check the chart in case).

The buggers can't hit you if they can't reach you.

cheers

Phil



Depends how shallow though I reckon ELBE 5 would be drawing 4-5 maybe 6 metres. I don't know this but maybe out of the channel would be too shallow. For us folk that's a good idea I reckon.

woko
NSW, 504 posts
17 Jun 2019 8:16PM
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Shanty1 said..

Kankama said..
In the old days before AIS I had a few moments in Moreton Bay where I could not make out whether a ship would pass me one side or another or plow into me. In that case the shallow areas are your safe zone. So we sought out the shoals and waited over them in 5 metres or so (it was night of course) until the ship had made a course change.

Shoal water (mud and sand) is your friend in these situations. Just the other day a friend and I were sailing my cat in Newcastle. He wondered if I wanted to stay in the channel - "Not at all" was my reply. Shipping channels are often for boats that draw about 10-15 metres. So we should leave the channel to them and seek shelter in the shoals, for they will usually not be shoals for us (but you better check the chart in case).

The buggers can't hit you if they can't reach you.

cheers

Phil




Depends how shallow though I reckon ELBE 5 would be drawing 4-5 maybe 6 metres. I don't know this but maybe out of the channel would be too shallow. For us folk that's a good idea I reckon.


80 maybe 100ft long keel, my guess 3m would pull it up. On Solway lass last year 100 ft, 100year old, brig rig not schooner only drawing 1.65m with 85t of ballast



shaggybaxter
QLD, 1797 posts
17 Jun 2019 8:21PM
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woko said..


Shanty1 said..



Kankama said..
In the old days before AIS I had a few moments in Moreton Bay where I could not make out whether a ship would pass me one side or another or plow into me. In that case the shallow areas are your safe zone. So we sought out the shoals and waited over them in 5 metres or so (it was night of course) until the ship had made a course change.

Shoal water (mud and sand) is your friend in these situations. Just the other day a friend and I were sailing my cat in Newcastle. He wondered if I wanted to stay in the channel - "Not at all" was my reply. Shipping channels are often for boats that draw about 10-15 metres. So we should leave the channel to them and seek shelter in the shoals, for they will usually not be shoals for us (but you better check the chart in case).

The buggers can't hit you if they can't reach you.

cheers

Phil






Depends how shallow though I reckon ELBE 5 would be drawing 4-5 maybe 6 metres. I don't know this but maybe out of the channel would be too shallow. For us folk that's a good idea I reckon.




80 maybe 100ft long keel, my guess 3m would pull it up. On Solway lass last year 100 ft, 100year old, brig rig not schooner only drawing 1.65m with 85t of ballast






Wow. That's amazing.

BlueMoon
635 posts
17 Jun 2019 6:39PM
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Kankama said..
In the old days before AIS I had a few moments in Moreton Bay where I could not make out whether a ship would pass me one side or another or plow into me. In that case the shallow areas are your safe zone. So we sought out the shoals and waited over them in 5 metres or so (it was night of course) until the ship had made a course change.

Shoal water (mud and sand) is your friend in these situations. Just the other day a friend and I were sailing my cat in Newcastle. He wondered if I wanted to stay in the channel - "Not at all" was my reply. Shipping channels are often for boats that draw about 10-15 metres. So we should leave the channel to them and seek shelter in the shoals, for they will usually not be shoals for us (but you better check the chart in case).

The buggers can't hit you if they can't reach you.

cheers

Phil


Excellent advice Phil for all skippers sailing near the shipping channels.
I reckon 99% of the Captains on these large commercial ships are very professional mariners, that know their stuff, not like the weekend warriors like me.
I had a situation near the dog-leg at Caloundra, i was attempting to cross the shipping channel and into shallower water parallel to Bribie Is, there was a large tanker coming in, the pilot radioed me(i don't haveAIS) to find out my intentions which i told him, he said i better get a hurry up then, or slow up in shallow water and let him pass. I quickly decided to tack and slow up (i had already started the engine as i knew it would be kind of close, and was powering quite hard as it was), the pilot also pointed out another big cargo ship coming the other way and they were going to pass each other nearly right at the dog-leg. It would have been a royal clusterf#@? if I'd of tried to cut across the channel in front of the big boats.
Lesson learnt: don't push your luck and try to outrun these big ships, they are much faster than they look.

woko
NSW, 504 posts
17 Jun 2019 8:47PM
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shaggybaxter said..

woko said..



Shanty1 said..




Kankama said..
In the old days before AIS I had a few moments in Moreton Bay where I could not make out whether a ship would pass me one side or another or plow into me. In that case the shallow areas are your safe zone. So we sought out the shoals and waited over them in 5 metres or so (it was night of course) until the ship had made a course change.

Shoal water (mud and sand) is your friend in these situations. Just the other day a friend and I were sailing my cat in Newcastle. He wondered if I wanted to stay in the channel - "Not at all" was my reply. Shipping channels are often for boats that draw about 10-15 metres. So we should leave the channel to them and seek shelter in the shoals, for they will usually not be shoals for us (but you better check the chart in case).

The buggers can't hit you if they can't reach you.

cheers

Phil







Depends how shallow though I reckon ELBE 5 would be drawing 4-5 maybe 6 metres. I don't know this but maybe out of the channel would be too shallow. For us folk that's a good idea I reckon.





80 maybe 100ft long keel, my guess 3m would pull it up. On Solway lass last year 100 ft, 100year old, brig rig not schooner only drawing 1.65m with 85t of ballast







Wow. That's amazing.


She was as most small ships of the era where, made to take the bottom ie for loading and unloading, hard to imagine now days rolling barrels up or down a gang plank or tossing the cargo overboard in sacks onto the mud or sand to be carted off by.... Well you couldn't call em wharfies

SandS
VIC, 5719 posts
17 Jun 2019 8:52PM
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BlueMoon said..

Kankama said..
In the old days before AIS I had a few moments in Moreton Bay where I could not make out whether a ship would pass me one side or another or plow into me. In that case the shallow areas are your safe zone. So we sought out the shoals and waited over them in 5 metres or so (it was night of course) until the ship had made a course change.

Shoal water (mud and sand) is your friend in these situations. Just the other day a friend and I were sailing my cat in Newcastle. He wondered if I wanted to stay in the channel - "Not at all" was my reply. Shipping channels are often for boats that draw about 10-15 metres. So we should leave the channel to them and seek shelter in the shoals, for they will usually not be shoals for us (but you better check the chart in case).

The buggers can't hit you if they can't reach you.

cheers

Phil



Excellent advice Phil for all skippers sailing near the shipping channels.
I reckon 99% of the Captains on these large commercial ships are very professional mariners, that know their stuff, not like the weekend warriors like me.
I had a situation near the dog-leg at Caloundra, i was attempting to cross the shipping channel and into shallower water parallel to Bribie Is, there was a large tanker coming in, the pilot radioed me(i don't haveAIS) to find out my intentions which i told him, he said i better get a hurry up then, or slow up in shallow water and let him pass. I quickly decided to tack and slow up (i had already started the engine as i knew it would be kind of close, and was powering quite hard as it was), the pilot also pointed out another big cargo ship coming the other way and they were going to pass each other nearly right at the dog-leg. It would have been a royal clusterf#@? if I'd of tried to cut across the channel in front of the big boats.
Lesson learnt: don't push your luck and try to outrun these big ships, they are much faster than they look.


they are fast !! some are covering about 2 miles in three minutes , may be even quicker !!

Shanty
QLD, 487 posts
17 Jun 2019 9:37PM
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Select to expand quote
SandS said..

BlueMoon said..


Kankama said..
In the old days before AIS I had a few moments in Moreton Bay where I could not make out whether a ship would pass me one side or another or plow into me. In that case the shallow areas are your safe zone. So we sought out the shoals and waited over them in 5 metres or so (it was night of course) until the ship had made a course change.

Shoal water (mud and sand) is your friend in these situations. Just the other day a friend and I were sailing my cat in Newcastle. He wondered if I wanted to stay in the channel - "Not at all" was my reply. Shipping channels are often for boats that draw about 10-15 metres. So we should leave the channel to them and seek shelter in the shoals, for they will usually not be shoals for us (but you better check the chart in case).

The buggers can't hit you if they can't reach you.

cheers

Phil




Excellent advice Phil for all skippers sailing near the shipping channels.
I reckon 99% of the Captains on these large commercial ships are very professional mariners, that know their stuff, not like the weekend warriors like me.
I had a situation near the dog-leg at Caloundra, i was attempting to cross the shipping channel and into shallower water parallel to Bribie Is, there was a large tanker coming in, the pilot radioed me(i don't haveAIS) to find out my intentions which i told him, he said i better get a hurry up then, or slow up in shallow water and let him pass. I quickly decided to tack and slow up (i had already started the engine as i knew it would be kind of close, and was powering quite hard as it was), the pilot also pointed out another big cargo ship coming the other way and they were going to pass each other nearly right at the dog-leg. It would have been a royal clusterf#@? if I'd of tried to cut across the channel in front of the big boats.
Lesson learnt: don't push your luck and try to outrun these big ships, they are much faster than they look.



they are fast !! some are covering about 2 miles in three minutes , may be even quicker !!


You see them on AIS Doing between 24-30knots all the time. Amazing how quickly you can go from one being on he horizon to only a couple of hundred metres.

MorningBird
NSW, 2219 posts
18 Jun 2019 3:24AM
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troubadour said..
Very dumb on the part of the schooner skipper. Large vessel constained by draught has right of way over sailing vessel. Could have been so easily avoided. Very irresponsible to put the safety of his vessel and all those onboard at risk.


yep.

MorningBird
NSW, 2219 posts
18 Jun 2019 3:28AM
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Donk107 said..

Shanty1 said..


Donk107 said..



stray said..
Its pretty clear that the guys on the tiller were not used to tillers and pushed it to port instead of turning to port.





Looking at all the lines hanging off both sides of the tiller I assume the schooner is normally steered with a wheel and in a panic they pushed the tiller in the same direction as they would normally turn the wheel

You would also assume that at least the skipper was experienced (even if the crew were not) and it was just a stuff up in a stressful situation

Regards Don




Imagine the builders watching this video after the boat survives 140 years. They would probably think "Jesus Christ how did the boat end up in these idiots hands".



I would not be to hard on them as we all make mistakes but most are not as public as this one

It will be interesting to read the investigation report and see what all those involved were thinking

Regards Don


I'd be very hard on them. They had a vessel constrained by draught and they forced their way into a collision. The schooner skipper should be flogged in public.
They could see they were on a collision course at the beginning of the video. Turn to port to stop the boat, wait until clear, and resume sailing. They should never have got close to the merchantmen.

troubadour
NSW, 132 posts
18 Jun 2019 5:52AM
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MorningBird said..

Donk107 said..


Shanty1 said..



Donk107 said..




stray said..
Its pretty clear that the guys on the tiller were not used to tillers and pushed it to port instead of turning to port.






Looking at all the lines hanging off both sides of the tiller I assume the schooner is normally steered with a wheel and in a panic they pushed the tiller in the same direction as they would normally turn the wheel

You would also assume that at least the skipper was experienced (even if the crew were not) and it was just a stuff up in a stressful situation

Regards Don





Imagine the builders watching this video after the boat survives 140 years. They would probably think "Jesus Christ how did the boat end up in these idiots hands".




I would not be to hard on them as we all make mistakes but most are not as public as this one

It will be interesting to read the investigation report and see what all those involved were thinking

Regards Don



I'd be very hard on them. They had a vessel constrained by draught and they forced their way into a collision. The schooner skipper should be flogged in public.
They could see they were on a collision course at the beginning of the video. Turn to port to stop the boat, wait until clear, and resume sailing. They should never have got close to the merchantmen.


+1

Poodle
WA, 720 posts
18 Jun 2019 9:25AM
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MorningBird said..

Donk107 said..


Shanty1 said..



Donk107 said..




stray said..
Its pretty clear that the guys on the tiller were not used to tillers and pushed it to port instead of turning to port.






Looking at all the lines hanging off both sides of the tiller I assume the schooner is normally steered with a wheel and in a panic they pushed the tiller in the same direction as they would normally turn the wheel

You would also assume that at least the skipper was experienced (even if the crew were not) and it was just a stuff up in a stressful situation

Regards Don





Imagine the builders watching this video after the boat survives 140 years. They would probably think "Jesus Christ how did the boat end up in these idiots hands".




I would not be to hard on them as we all make mistakes but most are not as public as this one

It will be interesting to read the investigation report and see what all those involved were thinking

Regards Don



I'd be very hard on them. They had a vessel constrained by draught and they forced their way into a collision. The schooner skipper should be flogged in public.
They could see they were on a collision course at the beginning of the video. Turn to port to stop the boat, wait until clear, and resume sailing. They should never have got close to the merchantmen.


Agreed. Never ever go in front of a commercial vessel. Always pass astern. And make your intentions to do this very clear.

Sectorsteve
NSW, 2153 posts
18 Jun 2019 12:39PM
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Kankama said..
In the old days before AIS I had a few moments in Moreton Bay where I could not make out whether a ship would pass me one side or another or plow into me. In that case the shallow areas are your safe zone. So we sought out the shoals and waited over them in 5 metres or so (it was night of course) until the ship had made a course change.

Shoal water (mud and sand) is your friend in these situations. Just the other day a friend and I were sailing my cat in Newcastle. He wondered if I wanted to stay in the channel - "Not at all" was my reply. Shipping channels are often for boats that draw about 10-15 metres. So we should leave the channel to them and seek shelter in the shoals, for they will usually not be shoals for us (but you better check the chart in case).

The buggers can't hit you if they can't reach you.

cheers

Phil


i did the same leaving moreton for mooloolaba cutting straight across past caloundra rathar than following that channel parallell with bribie.
big ships using the shipping channel and i dont wanna be anywhere near em.

shaggybaxter
QLD, 1797 posts
18 Jun 2019 1:09PM
Thumbs Up

When I'm near a turning mark in a shipping channel where a commercial ship is turning, and we're racing across the channel, I'm mentally running at maximum concentration just trying to keep spatial awareness.
Where is the danger shallow water zones , where am I going to call for the gybe back, do I have enough runway if we have a snafu, will that fishing boat drift down onto our line, will that wind shift come back or is it a knock, can I duck the aggressive starboard tacker, where the hell is the ship now (after an intense few minutes of short gybing), will the lee of the ship put us in irons and hence danger, what is the current doing, are the crew ready for a crash tack, is anyone underneath us, is the radio on the right channel, has somebody bumped the squelch...I still find it intense, even after doing it for years. I enjoy the challenge-ish, but I have to give it my full attention.

Most ships are fast enough for me to keep well clear even when you're heading in the same direction, converging is even more stress..
We were inbound into the bay one day, angling across the channel trucking along doing about 16 knots, with a ship on AIS coming outbound doing 20. I hailed them at 2000mtrs out to state intentions, and while we're talking I'm looking at the closure rate on AIS. It was holding steady at 1,100 m per minute. Eek! It took less than 2 minutes and they were on our beam.

Aren't the majority of accidents always proven to have been caused by are a series of minor mishaps? Voluntarily sailing near commercial vessels underway just ticks off one of those boxes for me. Shiver.

dialdan
QLD, 59 posts
18 Jun 2019 3:50PM
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shaggybaxter said..
When I'm near a turning mark in a shipping channel where a commercial ship is turning, and we're racing across the channel, I'm mentally running at maximum concentration just trying to keep spatial awareness.
Where is the danger shallow water zones , where am I going to call for the gybe back, do I have enough runway if we have a snafu, will that fishing boat drift down onto our line, will that wind shift come back or is it a knock, can I duck the aggressive starboard tacker, where the hell is the ship now (after an intense few minutes of short gybing), will the lee of the ship put us in irons and hence danger, what is the current doing, are the crew ready for a crash tack, is anyone underneath us, is the radio on the right channel, has somebody bumped the squelch...I still find it intense, even after doing it for years. I enjoy the challenge-ish, but I have to give it my full attention.

Most ships are fast enough for me to keep well clear even when you're heading in the same direction, converging is even more stress..
We were inbound into the bay one day, angling across the channel trucking along doing about 16 knots, with a ship on AIS coming outbound doing 20. I hailed them at 2000mtrs out to state intentions, and while we're talking I'm looking at the closure rate on AIS. It was holding steady at 1,100 m per minute. Eek! It took less than 2 minutes and they were on our beam.

Aren't the majority of accidents always proven to have been caused by are a series of minor mishaps? Voluntarily sailing near commercial vessels underway just ticks off one of those boxes for me. Shiver.


If you keep talking like that I will be selling my boat and taking up golf

Shanty
QLD, 487 posts
18 Jun 2019 3:53PM
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Anyone know what's happening to ELBE 5? Going to scrap or getting rebuilt?

shaggybaxter
QLD, 1797 posts
18 Jun 2019 5:00PM
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dialdan said..

shaggybaxter said..
When I'm near a turning mark in a shipping channel where a commercial ship is turning, and we're racing across the channel, I'm mentally running at maximum concentration just trying to keep spatial awareness.
Where is the danger shallow water zones , where am I going to call for the gybe back, do I have enough runway if we have a snafu, will that fishing boat drift down onto our line, will that wind shift come back or is it a knock, can I duck the aggressive starboard tacker, where the hell is the ship now (after an intense few minutes of short gybing), will the lee of the ship put us in irons and hence danger, what is the current doing, are the crew ready for a crash tack, is anyone underneath us, is the radio on the right channel, has somebody bumped the squelch...I still find it intense, even after doing it for years. I enjoy the challenge-ish, but I have to give it my full attention.

Most ships are fast enough for me to keep well clear even when you're heading in the same direction, converging is even more stress..
We were inbound into the bay one day, angling across the channel trucking along doing about 16 knots, with a ship on AIS coming outbound doing 20. I hailed them at 2000mtrs out to state intentions, and while we're talking I'm looking at the closure rate on AIS. It was holding steady at 1,100 m per minute. Eek! It took less than 2 minutes and they were on our beam.

Aren't the majority of accidents always proven to have been caused by are a series of minor mishaps? Voluntarily sailing near commercial vessels underway just ticks off one of those boxes for me. Shiver.



If you keep talking like that I will be selling my boat and taking up golf


Shanty
QLD, 487 posts
18 Jun 2019 6:42PM
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Sectorsteve said..

Kankama said..
In the old days before AIS I had a few moments in Moreton Bay where I could not make out whether a ship would pass me one side or another or plow into me. In that case the shallow areas are your safe zone. So we sought out the shoals and waited over them in 5 metres or so (it was night of course) until the ship had made a course change.

Shoal water (mud and sand) is your friend in these situations. Just the other day a friend and I were sailing my cat in Newcastle. He wondered if I wanted to stay in the channel - "Not at all" was my reply. Shipping channels are often for boats that draw about 10-15 metres. So we should leave the channel to them and seek shelter in the shoals, for they will usually not be shoals for us (but you better check the chart in case).

The buggers can't hit you if they can't reach you.

cheers

Phil



i did the same leaving moreton for mooloolaba cutting straight across past caloundra rathar than following that channel parallell with bribie.
big ships using the shipping channel and i dont wanna be anywhere near em.


Did you go through the North west channel?

Shanty
QLD, 487 posts
18 Jun 2019 6:49PM
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on: MARCO ZITZOW AND J?RG K?HNEMANN published on 16.06.2019 - 17:14 Hamburg - balloon fender, air bags, pumps - the salvage of the pilot-saver "No. 5 Elbe" sunk ten days ago after a collision with a container freighter is in full swing! Spanish specialists from the company "Ardentia Marine" landed on Friday in Fuhlsb?ttel, their heavy equipment was made in minibuses to the Elbe. In the swinging estuary at Stadersand, up to five divers have been at the wreck since Saturday, the first two of about 20 yellow airbags with straps have been attached to the hull to prevent further sinking of the 130 tonne ship into the silt. "We welcome the salvage with lifting sacks, as it is associated with the greatest possible protection of the historic wooden hull," says Joachim Kaiser (70) of the pilot lot owner foundation Hamburg Maritime.

The divers are under extreme time pressure - they can work because of the strong flow flow with up to eight kilometers per hour only very briefly in high and low water.

On Monday and Tuesday, the ship, on which some of the oak planks are said to have been broken, should be sealed and carefully set up. According to the Waterways and Shipping Office, strong pumps are used in the ship, which help to float.

If that works, the floating crane "Enak" (weighs up to 600 tonnes) could lift the schooner today onto a pontoon for transport to the Hansahafen. Good luck!

This was a Translation from Google Translate so there are a few mistakes but I'm sure you get the jist.
Regards,
Mick



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"ELBE No 5 sinks after collision" started by shaggybaxter