Ramona said..

Madmouse said..
He got rescued by Kirsten who sailed him to the bulk carrier. He's safe.

At least with this one we might get to hear what actually occurred or at least a best guess. Sounds like a skin fitting failure from my armchair. Rudder post could have given away too I suppose but long keelers tend to protect the post.
goldengloberace.com/tapio-is-safe-and-sound/?fbclid=IwAR2Dq_SZo4TF2dNsp_v8jInEyEX2hKnbvTSB1UdCen42_aIljWf82AMTJK0

Its kind of annoying that we haven't heard anything and yet they are going on with drawn out relatively boring updates on who might be doing 3 1/2 knots and who is doing 2 1/2 knots ... Perhaps communications are such that he cannot have access to the cargo ships radio for an interview. It would think however that this could be arranged. Even if this is the case they should comment and tell us why there is no news.

I simply don't understand how the failure of a skin fitting results in the loss of a yacht which supposedly had so many watertight bulkheads isolating the skin fittings and indeed the whole stern area multiple times. It's quite scary that someone who has gone to such extreme measures still loses their yacht in what was reportedly fairly benign conditions.

I am particularly interested as I spent an awful lot of time glassing in a new bulkhead in front of my rudder post and sealing a ridiculous number of holes where horizontal conduits such as exhaust, cockpit drains, bilge pump lines, throttle cables, electrics... pass through bulkheads after some considerable thought on the subject.



If he was asleep or in the cabin and didn't notice until the trim of the yacht was really bad it may have been impossible to discover exactly where the leak was. Even if this is the case he must have his suspicions which would be good to hear. Certainly sounds like he is in reasonable spirits and in a position to comment.

Ramona said..
I think a skin fitting failure under the cockpit, behind or near the engine would be hard to get to in a hurry to bang in a bung. The usual dragging a spare sail over the exterior to cover the hole might have been difficult with the shape of the hull. The one thing about this race and the previous one is they actually pass on the details of the failures so I'm sure we will eventually get the good guff.

Strange because at about two-thirds of the way through (14.40) this pre race boat tour video he states that ALL through hull fittings are sandwiched between two bulkheads which are quite close to each other beneath the cockpit. Surely the boat could not then sink although I guess if a connected hose rather than the through-hull itself failed outside the bulkheads and the sea cock was not turned off??

www.facebook.com/100063768451833/posts/pfbid0238TaJSN6DvSgeGws32rSxucWuYWSEmu4YvSjy32N6sAqosbbkajRHfP3EpdPVonQl/?mibextid=Nif5oz.

Sinking by the stern may have been a red herring. Shipping container? What else makes a big bang apart from the rig breaking which he would certainly have noticed and commented on? Hope Portuguese Orca behaviour isn't escalating/spreading.

Good thing he wasn't a heavy sleeper as it sounds like there wasn't much reaction-time. Interesting he calls it "calm conditions". Still enough wind and speed or motion to hole the boat. Sad.

Probs hit a container. Big bang, filled with water in a couple of minutes would have to be a bigger hole than a skin fitting or rudder tube.

Very unlucky but there is some crazy number of containers that get lost at sea every year. So only more and more of them out there.

Unfortunately we will probanly never know what happened.
there was a bang reported so if not a hard floating object, maybey an angrey whale or some kind of hull failure due to forces from the rig?

One Australia cracked and then sank due to compressive buckling failure of the deck in a moderate to maybe heavy seaway and with loads applied by genoa sheeting as well as the seaway inducing compressive loads in the deck which was an open design with sparse scantlings on the deck longitudinal deck structure to accept those compressive loads which caused the buckling failure.

www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2019/03/05/americas-cup-sinking-one-australia/

Another buckling hull failure more recently as here

www.sail-world.com/news/256271/Americas-Cup-Substantial-damage-after-nose-dive

A bit more of an update here on Tapio's lost boat. The points made about the safety equipment are worth a read.

goldengloberace.com/golden-globe-race-lifesaving-regulations-asteria-sinking-lessons-to-be-learnt/?fbclid=IwAR1f7C2U3_PJCk9IFqeJAXm9UrVfxtv3zeacudXl9w4YNSu27gcH3HuUDkc

Simon Curwen has just broken his Hydrovane self steering gear. This is the third one to break in this event. They don't like going downwind.

He didn't take spares " to save weight."
Considering the troubles that they have all had with steering systems.
It's a really dumb decision.
Says Gary sitting in his armchair.

cammd said..

Jolene said..
I think the selection of a hydrovane for the GG race highlights the skippers lack of knowledge in the area of wind vanes.
It's a really dumb decision

Why, whats wrong with the hydrovane vs other wind vanes ?

Good question. I'm looking for a wind vane system and would appreciate the guidance.

K.

Thanks for the reply Ramona, I think I read somewhere that Hydrovane was the most common choice for this GG, why would so many choose it over the servo assist types, are they the only ones that are still being made. I contacted Fleming recently to see if I could buy a new wind foil for mine, just to have a spare, and got a reply that the company was no longer trading.

As a side note what would be a good replacement for the windfoil, I have an original fleming one, plus one that looks like it is made from corflute. The corflute one is not as stiff as the original, any suggestions for spares

Perhaps they choose Hydrovanes because they can function as a back-up rudder. They can do that because they can exert a large force on the water, but that conversely also means the forces on them when they are banged around (eg by following seas) are large. Hence, sometimes kaput.

Says Graeme from the comfort of his sun-lounge

cammd said..
Thanks for the reply Ramona, I think I read somewhere that Hydrovane was the most common choice for this GG, why would so many choose it over the servo assist types, are they the only ones that are still being made. I contacted Fleming recently to see if I could buy a new wind foil for mine, just to have a spare, and got a reply that the company was no longer trading.

As a side note what would be a good replacement for the windfoil, I have an original fleming one, plus one that looks like it is made from corflute. The corflute one is not as stiff as the original, any suggestions for spares

I think the Flemings and Monitors etc use Tunnelcore in 8mm. It's the same as corflute really. The 8mm stuff is only in some Bunnings store for some reason. I have made blades from 3 mm Corflute with epoxy over cloth sheathing. The best one was 8mm cedar tapered down to a 3mm leading edge with a spoiler on the rear edge. You can do anything you like as long as the surface area is close to the original and the weight is adjusted to get the balance right. The Fleming has plenty of adjustment both vertical and athwart-ship with the weight.
I think the Fleming bloke tried to sell the business and had no luck and retired. The others I mentioned are still going as far as I know. The winner of the first GG race used a Hydrovane. It's a shame they never copied his use of the multi coats of antifoul!

r13 said..

cammd said..
Thanks for the reply Ramona, I think I read somewhere that Hydrovane was the most common choice for this GG, why would so many choose it over the servo assist types, are they the only ones that are still being made. I contacted Fleming recently to see if I could buy a new wind foil for mine, just to have a spare, and got a reply that the company was no longer trading.

As a side note what would be a good replacement for the windfoil, I have an original fleming one, plus one that looks like it is made from corflute. The corflute one is not as stiff as the original, any suggestions for spares

Sorry typing while Ramona was. Maybe some of the below is of use.

A bit of marine ply of suitable thickness shaped to the outline with jigsaw and power planed down to the cross section aerofoil shape then epoxy resin and normal 6oz woven glass cloth or even carbon fibre woven cloth should do it? Say 1/2 a day labour total but not much $s if you go for the Whitworths 175g woven glass. Many other cloth and epoxy resin suppliers out there now.

See prior post here

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Sailing/General/Fleming-Windvane-2?page=1

You don't want an aerofoil shape. The sides have to be flat. A taper is fine though as long as the sides are flat. The Aries uses a light weight 5 ply plywood.