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How strong does a whisker pole need to be

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Created by Donk107 1 month ago, 12 Feb 2019
Jolene
938 posts
17 Feb 2019 2:07PM
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I source alot of aluminium from Capral and keep their "Little Green Book" handy




www.capral.com.au/isg-little-green-book

Donk107
TAS, 2047 posts
17 Feb 2019 5:47PM
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sirgallivant said..
Well man, l tried to help you giving an almost step by step way of doing it, with what, and why, and you are still thinking of 1.6mm wall thickness?
The 50mm tubes OUTSIDE dia is 50mm, the inside one is 44, so you might need some packing.



Hi Sirgallivant

You suggested using 50mm 3mm tube but the 50mm (and 60 mm for that matter) ronstan ends will only fit into 2 mm wall thickness tube without taking the grinder to them

Regards Don

SandS
VIC, 5454 posts
17 Feb 2019 6:46PM
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rumblefish said..
Hey Don,
50 x 3mm ally will be heaps on your boat using RF1661.
The easiest way to break a pole is by having the topping lift attach to a single point in the middle, so use a bridle with an SS ring in the middle.

No here's a hint....
Make it longer than you think because there is a trick I learnt in WA to make your whisker pole variable length.
Don't attach the inboard end to the mast, instead use a spare halyard and run the end through your spinnaker ring on the mast and attach to the inboard end of the pole. Start with about a foot or more passing through the ring.
Once the pole is up and all connected you can then adjust its length by adjusting the halyard attached the the inboard end of the pole!
Works a treat!!


I,m struggling to picture this in action ......all i,m seeing is the pole flying around banging on the mast ??????

rumblefish
TAS, 700 posts
18 Feb 2019 7:14AM
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SandS said..

rumblefish said..
Hey Don,
50 x 3mm ally will be heaps on your boat using RF1661.
The easiest way to break a pole is by having the topping lift attach to a single point in the middle, so use a bridle with an SS ring in the middle.

No here's a hint....
Make it longer than you think because there is a trick I learnt in WA to make your whisker pole variable length.
Don't attach the inboard end to the mast, instead use a spare halyard and run the end through your spinnaker ring on the mast and attach to the inboard end of the pole. Start with about a foot or more passing through the ring.
Once the pole is up and all connected you can then adjust its length by adjusting the halyard attached the the inboard end of the pole!
Works a treat!!



I,m struggling to picture this in action ......all i,m seeing is the pole flying around banging on the mast ??????


The force the head sail imparts on the pole is not directly towards the mast but is a twisting motion somewhat.
I was sceptical the first time I saw it, but it does work

sirgallivant
NSW, 1393 posts
18 Feb 2019 11:34AM
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Yes, Don, that is exactly what l mean. Rimming the pole's inside end and grinding a tad off the ronstan's dia will do a perfect fit. It would not take an hour to do the lot.
You going to end up with a well made proper whisker pole. No more anxiety.

LooseChange
NSW, 1880 posts
18 Feb 2019 6:47PM
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sirgallivant said..
Yes, Don, that is exactly what l mean. Rimming the pole's inside end and grinding a tad off the ronstan's dia will do a perfect fit. It would not take an hour to do the lot.
You going to end up with a well made proper whisker pole. No more anxiety.




Rimming, really? What other dubious talents do you possess ...errr .... not that I am interested.

UncleBob
NSW, 378 posts
18 Feb 2019 6:55PM
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LooseChange said..

sirgallivant said..
Yes, Don, that is exactly what l mean. Rimming the pole's inside end and grinding a tad off the ronstan's dia will do a perfect fit. It would not take an hour to do the lot.
You going to end up with a well made proper whisker pole. No more anxiety.




Rimming, really? What other dubious talents do you possess ...errr .... not that I am interested.


Oh dear !!

sirgallivant
NSW, 1393 posts
20 Feb 2019 11:09PM
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Your rather childish reaction is more than disappointing! You act like a bunch of ten year olds
while l am talking about a well known industrial process:

"..... rimming the inside of a slowly rotating cylinder partially filled with liquid..."(wikipedia)

".....Rimmed Steel: A low-carbon steel that meets the following parameters:...."(wikipedia)

"....The Heritage Piazza Small Rimmed Bowl is a functional Bowl, ideal for rice, side dishes..."
(wkikpedia)

Not 'reamed' but rimmed. Just for your anally preoccupied minds!
Strewth!


Datawiz
VIC, 470 posts
21 Feb 2019 8:15AM
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sirgallivant said..
Your rather childish reaction is more than disappointing! You act like a bunch of ten year olds
while l am talking about a well known industrial process:

"..... rimming the inside of a slowly rotating cylinder partially filled with liquid..."(wikipedia)

".....Rimmed Steel: A low-carbon steel that meets the following parameters:...."(wikipedia)

"....The Heritage Piazza Small Rimmed Bowl is a functional Bowl, ideal for rice, side dishes..."
(wkikpedia)

Not 'reamed' but rimmed. Just for your anally preoccupied minds!
Strewth!




In the spirit of clarification, perhaps you could provide a link to the Wikipedia definition of rimming.
Particles or objects close to the rim of a container could be described as rimming the container.
ps: think you mean reaming
regards,
Allan

BlueMoon
562 posts
22 Feb 2019 6:21AM
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SandS said..


rumblefish said..
Hey Don,
50 x 3mm ally will be heaps on your boat using RF1661.
The easiest way to break a pole is by having the topping lift attach to a single point in the middle, so use a bridle with an SS ring in the middle.

No here's a hint....
Make it longer than you think because there is a trick I learnt in WA to make your whisker pole variable length.
Don't attach the inboard end to the mast, instead use a spare halyard and run the end through your spinnaker ring on the mast and attach to the inboard end of the pole. Start with about a foot or more passing through the ring.
Once the pole is up and all connected you can then adjust its length by adjusting the halyard attached the the inboard end of the pole!
Works a treat!!




I,m struggling to picture this in action ......all i,m seeing is the pole flying around banging on the mast ??????



Thanks rumble for the tip!
The idea will work for me, the whisker pole is too long, but of course it's handy to have it longer. I hadn't thought of having it sit off to the side. With a fore and aft guy, it does flop around a little at the inboard end(i can run a line to stop that in any case) but is minimal and as you say should improve with the sail up, cheers


Bristolfashion
VIC, 444 posts
22 Feb 2019 1:43PM
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I think "rimming the pole" was a line spoken by Midshipman Albert Poop-Decker in "Carry on Jack".

Apologies to Sirgallivant , but us Poms can't resist a childish double entendre whether we're 10 or 80.

Bristol

??

BlueMoon
562 posts
22 Feb 2019 12:52PM
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No doubt Capt Pugwash probably made a similar comment to Master Bates, who in turn would have passed the order onto Roger the cabin boy.

UncleBob
NSW, 378 posts
22 Feb 2019 3:55PM
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rumblefish
TAS, 700 posts
22 Feb 2019 4:34PM
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BlueMoon said..

SandS said..



rumblefish said..
Hey Don,
50 x 3mm ally will be heaps on your boat using RF1661.
The easiest way to break a pole is by having the topping lift attach to a single point in the middle, so use a bridle with an SS ring in the middle.

No here's a hint....
Make it longer than you think because there is a trick I learnt in WA to make your whisker pole variable length.
Don't attach the inboard end to the mast, instead use a spare halyard and run the end through your spinnaker ring on the mast and attach to the inboard end of the pole. Start with about a foot or more passing through the ring.
Once the pole is up and all connected you can then adjust its length by adjusting the halyard attached the the inboard end of the pole!
Works a treat!!





I,m struggling to picture this in action ......all i,m seeing is the pole flying around banging on the mast ??????




Thanks rumble for the tip!
The idea will work for me, the whisker pole is too long, but of course it's handy to have it longer. I hadn't thought of having it sit off to the side. With a fore and aft guy, it does flop around a little at the inboard end(i can run a line to stop that in any case) but is minimal and as you say should improve with the sail up, cheers



No prob :) should flop round less with force from the sail.

sirgallivant
NSW, 1393 posts
23 Feb 2019 5:10PM
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For the spirit of clarification, all three of the above quotes are from wikipedia!
Google it!

Besides, the technique, suggested by Rumblefish, is not a solution one could set and go below leaving the sails taking care of themselves.
It is a temporary measure and must be constantly and closely monitored in case of even the slightest change of wind direction or sea-state.
It can cause mayhem in a flash. Tried it once but never again. as it is not a solution for a single handed sailor.

Datawiz
VIC, 470 posts
23 Feb 2019 11:34PM
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sirgallivant said..
For the spirit of clarification, all three of the above quotes are from wikipedia!
Google it!

Besides, the technique, suggested by Rumblefish, is not a solution one could set and go below leaving the sails taking care of themselves.
It is a temporary measure and must be constantly and closely monitored in case of even the slightest change of wind direction or sea-state.
It can cause mayhem in a flash. Tried it once but never again. as it is not a solution for a single handed sailor.




In the spirit of clarification.....

"..... rimming the inside of a slowly rotating cylinder partially filled with liquid..."(wikipedia)
This reference pertains to the action of particles located close to the inside of a slowly rotating cylinder partially filled with liquid. The author chose to describe the location of those particles as 'rimming', to indicate their propinquity to the inner surface of the containing vessel.
The discussion is entirely unrelated to any industrial process.

".....Rimmed Steel: A low-carbon steel that meets the following parameters:...."(wikipedia)
This reference relates to the physical characteristics of a steel which has been intentionally processed to have a low carbon content.
It has nothing to do with an operation to remove material from the inside of an aluminium tube to alter its internal diameter.

"....The Heritage Piazza Small Rimmed Bowl is a functional Bowl, ideal for rice, side dishes..." (wkikpedia)
This reference describes a bowl with a small rim - that is, the outer edge of a container.
It has nothing to do with an operation to remove material from the inside of an aluminium tube to alter its internal diameter.

The correct term to describe the removal of internal material to produce an accurately rounded hole, or achieve a specific internal diameter is, reaming.
This term is universally used in engineering processes.
The Webster definition of reaming is as follows:
"noun (Mechanical engineering: Manufacturing and assembly)
Reaming is a cutting process in which a cutting tool produces a hole of a very accurate size.
Reaming is done to a hole which has been already drilled, to produce a truly circular hole of exactly the right diameter.
Reaming involves widening the opening of a hole.
Reaming is a cutting process in which a cutting tool produces a hole of a very accurate size. "

www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/reaming

hope this helps....
best regards,
Allan

BlueMoon
562 posts
24 Feb 2019 8:42AM
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When usinga whisker pole, do you find you need to use longer jib sheets, if the usual jib sheets are just long enough when used with no pole?

rumblefish
TAS, 700 posts
25 Feb 2019 10:18AM
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BlueMoon said..
When usinga whisker pole, do you find you need to use longer jib sheets, if the usual jib sheets are just long enough when used with no pole?


Depends on the biggest head sail you run.
If your sheets are long enough for an over lapping head sail then they are probably good

sirgallivant
NSW, 1393 posts
28 Feb 2019 4:34AM
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In case of the gennaker l had, with 6.65m foot, which had the clew attached to the bowsprit outside of the fore stay, l had to have a every long sheet (8mm db) because the whole shebang had to go around on the outside, around the fore stay. So it needed trice or more the normal length.
We are talking of a boat 8.76m long.
It was not possible to tack the sail normally, it had to go around on the outside, around itself like the huge code 0's on the VOR boats.
For the genoa I used a single length of continuous 8mm spectra sheet.
The poling out of the genny needs a fair bit more sheet and when goose winged double headsails are used this is doubling the demand for sheets.
It stands to reason that a goosewinged sail needs much more sheet to let the foot run perpendicular to the axle of the boat or even more forward, in an obtuse angle, sometimes.
The leading of the sheets back, almost to the transom to the turning blocks, should be calculated as well.
I used a barber hauler to control the sheets. This is a cruising set up, one seldom sees this kind of sail control on racers or day sailers.

Lazzz
NSW, 375 posts
12 Mar 2019 7:22PM
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After reading this post it made me pull my finger out & make my whisker pole - I drew up a sketch of what I wanted ages ago.
Capral have a new website for ordering aluminium online (www.1800aluminium.com.au/) & it was very easy to get the materials - if you pick up they also do one cut for free.

Pics are here: www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.2370936922918857&type=1&l=aae34d13ea

Fully extended = 6.6 mts - fully retracted = 4.1 mts
I had sheaves & blocks etc and pvc pipe lying around so all I had to buy was the al tubing & the two beaks!!




southace
QLD, 3929 posts
12 Mar 2019 6:40PM
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I don't understand why you need a whisker pole longer than 3.5 meters unless you have a deck sweeper low cut headsail or lightweight scretcher that's massive. I fire up the Perkins when the wind drops below 10 knots.

Donk107
TAS, 2047 posts
12 Mar 2019 7:49PM
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Hi Lazzz

Well done with making the pole

I am still farting around deciding what I am going to do and now the racing season is over there is no urgency until October comes

I had a bit of a muck round the other day when it was light and goose winged using my existing spinnaker pole clipped onto one of the shrouds which was about 800 from the mast and it held the genoa out beautifully so it looks like i need to make one roughly a meter longer than the existing pole

Regards Don

Lazzz
NSW, 375 posts
12 Mar 2019 8:18PM
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southace said..
I don't understand why you need a whisker pole longer than 3.5 meters unless you have a deck sweeper low cut headsail or lightweight scretcher that's massive. I fire up the Perkins when the wind drops below 10 knots.



This is mainly for use with my No2 jib which has a foot of 6.5 - so should be pretty close.

My Assy has a foot of 9.5 & my No1 genoa has a foot of 8.7 so I can hopefully use it with these as well.



Select to expand quote
Donk107 said..
I had a bit of a muck round the other day when it was light and goose winged using my existing spinnaker pole clipped onto one of the shrouds which was about 800 from the mast and it held the genoa out beautifully so it looks like i need to make one roughly a meter longer than the existing pole

Regards Don



It's easy Don - Work out what dia pole you need & go to Arnolds Boat Shop or Whitworths website & sus out the spinnaker pole ends, take note of the OD of them, then go to the Capral Website: www.1800aluminium.com.au/ and work out what tube to get. It comes in 6500 lengths.
Dunno if they have a depot down your way though!!

Donk107
TAS, 2047 posts
12 Mar 2019 9:17PM
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Hi Lazz

Thanks for the link and they have a branch in Hobart

I know what i need i just need to stop mucking about and do something about it

Regards Don

Ramona
NSW, 4788 posts
13 Mar 2019 8:38AM
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Heading home on Monday. Top section of a a Windsurfer mast, pole ends off my old Flying Dutchman. Inboard end attached to the jumper strut rings on the mast. topping lift attached but did not bother adjusting, usually don't bother attaching. Another whisker pole on the deck very similar but slightly shorter.





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"How strong does a whisker pole need to be" started by Donk107