Hi folks first off what a great forum (seems to be very constructive given I'm used to kiting forums)

From around 14 years old I've wanted to buy a boat and set off into the distant blue. My father was a navigation officer in the UK navy and I've lived by the sea all my life, this could have been a big influence though I now understand and realise I am running from the constraints of land.

Ive been on tall ships in my teens and a few other sail boats in the past but don't possess the necessary skills of a seasoned skipper. I've read countless forums and books geared around coastal livaboards and deeper offshore and the one thing that stands out the most is people dream....... only to have their dreams bogged down by commitments ie mortgage, kids, usual land constraints. I'm at tafe ATM study to try out for the navy next year and gain necessary seamanship skills to buy my own yacht and live aboard.

I am now thinking I should bite the bullet and just get say a top hat or something of similar size and reliability and go for it.

I have just come out of living in the forest for 7 months and have realised I'm a lot stronger mentally than I thought.

My budget is around 11-15 k and I would be taking the first year to lean the boat/myself trial an error sort of stuff and living and working around Australia. I would love to be able to upsize by then to a say van den start 34 steel bilge keel or Helena bodan etc


Is this jumping the gun or should I stick to my original plan and join the navy??

Olly84 said..

Is this jumping the gun or should I stick to my original plan and join the navy??

Joining the Navy at 25 years of age is a bit late in the game of life and you will probably miss most of what the Navy has to offer unless you want to make a lifetime career in the Navy.

Nothing wrong with that. If you fit, a career in the military can give you a great life if you are prepared to accept the discipline and subjugate some of your personal desires to what the service requires of you.

Joining the Navy for the purpose of gaining seamanship skills for handling small yachts, I have to say is a pipe dream based on my experience of joining the Navy at age 16 for a period of 12 years.

After 7 1/2 years the Navy and I had a difference of opinion and we agreed to part company. I do not regret a minute of my Navy time and am grateful for the discipline and the trade it gave me but it is not for everyone.

Ask yourself the question:- What is more important to you: having a career with secure employment or buying a yacht, going sailing and trusting in your own ability to get work and money when you need it.

I am not trying to sway you either way. Both options could hold unlimited opportunities. This does not answer your question either and neither should it.

Only you can answer the question. Think about what your situation will most likely be in 40 years time going down one track or the other.

Test your mental strength now and go for "it" whatever "it" may be.

I always wanted to live on a yacht from when I was young. I joined the Navy when I was 17. I got caught up in the land life and had to buy houses, cars and do the family thing. I left the Navy when I was 26. I then went mining for 17 years and worked most of my life in the middle of the desert earning a small fortune.
I had finally done what I needed and I got a normal job where I could go home at night. I finally bought my boat because I could.
Now in my mid 40's, having missed most of my kids lives because I was away working, I have very few real friends because of the isolation of FIFO. My wife and kids didn't really know me or want me around because they are so used to me not being there.
We separated about 2 years ago. Its a really ugly divorce. Once it's all done I will have given most of my wealth to my ex and be living on the boat because it's all I will be able to afford after child support screws me. I have missed out on most things good because I was so focussed on getting ahead.
If you talk to all the old salts living on their boats in the marinas you will find that this is a VERY common story. One thing that is apparent though is that they are all happy now.
My advice to you is that you should do what you want and you should do it now. There is no reason why you cant do what you want in life and still get ahead. It's your decisions that make the difference.
On a side note. I would want something a little bit bigger than a top hat as a live aboard but it can be done.

Get a trade or some kind of means of earning a decent income first. You need a good income if you want to maintain a substantial boat to a seaworthy standard. The navy may be able to give you the trade training, but as Cisco says, that route is probably too late.

Start small . Learn on something small that you can sleep and cook on. Go often. You learn so much by just getting out there.
The problem with these navy/mining and in my case super yacht life is that you give up your life for $.
95% of the time your lifes crap as you get told what to do constantly. Cabin inspections, weekend watches , crew dynamics.its the opposite of sailing. Sailing =freedom. Navy/mining/FIFO jobs = voluntary incarceration. You do learn some good seaman stuff though.
id recommend being a marine engineer. its just a course , then get a job on a yacht. Youre exempt from the boat hierachy in the engine room and a very valuable crew member. there'll always be work, even when cruising. Not to mention a really good thing to know and you dont have to give up your life.
ive got mates doing 3 months on 3 off. i still wouldnt do it as i prefer time over money. But 6 months work a year? Not bad really for about 80k. But it isnt a normal life. These guys have alot of money, but theyre lonely. These are 24/7 jobs where you have to live with a bunch of people in a small area. THeres probably better people in the navy - more permanent crew compared to what i was doing where people lasted only months and the dynamics of the crew constantly change.

Olly84 said..
Hi folks first off what a great forum (seems to be very constructive given I'm used to kiting forums)

From around 14 years old I've wanted to buy a boat and set off into the distant blue. My father was a navigation officer in the UK navy and I've lived by the sea all my life, this could have been a big influence though I now understand and realise I am running from the constraints of land.

Ive been on tall ships in my teens and a few other sail boats in the past but don't possess the necessary skills of a seasoned skipper. I've read countless forums and books geared around coastal livaboards and deeper offshore and the one thing that stands out the most is people dream....... only to have their dreams bogged down by commitments ie mortgage, kids, usual land constraints. I'm at tafe ATM study to try out for the navy next year and gain necessary seamanship skills to buy my own yacht and live aboard.

I am now thinking I should bite the bullet and just get say a top hat or something of similar size and reliability and go for it.

I have just come out of living in the forest for 7 months and have realised I'm a lot stronger mentally than I thought.

My budget is around 11-15 k and I would be taking the first year to lean the boat/myself trial an error sort of stuff and living and working around Australia. I would love to be able to upsize by then to a say van den start 34 steel bilge keel or Helena bodan etc


Is this jumping the gun or should I stick to my original plan and join the navy??

Living on board a small boat is a great lifestyle - you save money and it's a beautiful environment.

Ramona said..
The cut off age for joining the navy is 57 now I believe so you have some time. I joined the navy at 15 and served 20 years and never regret one moment of it. I was always lucky though through my career with my postings. I started sailing at 12 and owned a boat at an early age and that counted in my early years of my navy career. I got to skipper a sailing dinghy in an interservice/nation race series in Japan in "66 and when posted to a shore posting went straight in as a workboat coxswain. Next posting was as a boatwork/seamanship instructor at a training establishment. I still think most of this was pure luck but obviously having some boating history on my records had some effect.
The navy now is very different to when I and the several other forum member here served. I notice they have much more team building activities etc than in the old navy. The average age is probably much higher now too and I don't think we will never see the situation again where we had over 200 16 years olds serving on ships in the gun line off Vietnam.
I personally would join the navy but be prepared to end up in what ever category they considered would suit. Sometimes you don't get much of a choice.
If you choose to be a live aboard then make sure you have plenty of headroom and plenty of deck space for lounging about. 99% of your time will be in harbour so it will be more about pot plants than sailing performance. Steel yachts might mean extensive time out on the hard so factor that in to the running costs. I would suggest a production fibreglass yacht from the 70'/80's. There are some really good buys out there.

This boat is way too good for the job

http://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/alan-buchanan-34-bargain-opportunity/188200

Nice yacht Ramona she'd be honest and tough a lick of paint on deck and a good scrub below and a few upgrades she be a good to live on a good length and a proven sail boat

At 52 having only 10 days sailing up north, I bought a 37 foot yacht figuring I would learn as I went rather than waiting another 10 years trying to kearn first. 4 years later I'm living aboard and confident to sail solo...just do it!!

Thanks for all your input. There's been some cold hard facts/ experiences and past regrets coming through. I've been procrastinating a lot over this whole navy and I think I have left it too late.

Cisco I'm actually 32 in October (signed with seabreaze @25) and the intention wasn't to join the navy solely for the purpose of gaining seamanship skills but to follow in my father's footsteps and make him proud of me. I guess if I was to chance a whole service/career out of the navy I would undoubtedly miss out on my dream as a livaboard traveler.

I've come to the conclusion that I'll follow my dream and cancel my 2nd semester Tafe and get a boat.

I have also been influenced by a beautiful Canadian girl that walked into my life and understood my situation 3 months ago she will be arriving back in Sydney on the 5th September and I hope to have her onboard once I buy my boat.

Money comes and money goes, I'm not one for luxuries and expensive toys (I ride a Honda 125 and put on 25,000 km in 6 months!!!) I would just like to find a boat with similar traits.

Anyone in Sydney here selling a suitable small livaboard for around 10-15k please don't hesitate to get in touch, I've just arrived from Eden 3 days ago and will be more than happy to have a look / chat and maybe a sail.

Peace out and good winds

Chris 249 said..

Ramona said..
The cut off age for joining the navy is 57 now I believe so you have some time. I joined the navy at 15 and served 20 years and never regret one moment of it. I was always lucky though through my career with my postings. I started sailing at 12 and owned a boat at an early age and that counted in my early years of my navy career. I got to skipper a sailing dinghy in an interservice/nation race series in Japan in "66 and when posted to a shore posting went straight in as a workboat coxswain. Next posting was as a boatwork/seamanship instructor at a training establishment. I still think most of this was pure luck but obviously having some boating history on my records had some effect.
The navy now is very different to when I and the several other forum member here served. I notice they have much more team building activities etc than in the old navy. The average age is probably much higher now too and I don't think we will never see the situation again where we had over 200 16 years olds serving on ships in the gun line off Vietnam.
I personally would join the navy but be prepared to end up in what ever category they considered would suit. Sometimes you don't get much of a choice.
If you choose to be a live aboard then make sure you have plenty of headroom and plenty of deck space for lounging about. 99% of your time will be in harbour so it will be more about pot plants than sailing performance. Steel yachts might mean extensive time out on the hard so factor that in to the running costs. I would suggest a production fibreglass yacht from the 70'/80's. There are some really good buys out there.

This boat is way too good for the job

http://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/alan-buchanan-34-bargain-opportunity/188200

I raced against her in the 1980 Hobart - I think the design was originally meant to be made in steel so the 'glass must be incredibly thick. Nice boat!

The hull looks like a Ohlson 35 and you just know she would be a sweet sailing boat! Now there is a girlfriend in the picture the boat is going to have to be bigger than a Tophat! Nice English built timber 35 foot circumnavigating yacht just changed hands here in town during the week for 3 grand! Was for sale for 20 grand and I thought it was good buying at that.

I would definitely advise over 30ft with a shower to keep the girl happy.

Bruski068 said..


My advice for what it's worth is just do it before you get bogged down in the commitments that life throws in your way.

I just will point out that "living life" is a commitment in itself.

The chicken gives eggs. That is interest.

The pig gives bacon. That is commitment.

Sooner or later in life the individual has to commit to something, be it by choice or default by circumstance.

Committing by choice is a sign of a self realised person, a leader and a winner.

Committing by reason of circumstance is a sign of a follower and an excuse maker.

Life will always "throw commitments in your way" no matter which path you choose.

The ability to choose and predetermine one's destiny is what differentiates man from animals.

Also be aware there are animals getting around disguised as humans. They are what populate our prisons.

cisco said...

The ability to choose and predetermine one's destiny is what differentiates man from animals.

Also be aware there are animals getting around disguised as humans. They are what populate our prisons.

Wow, so many negatively worded comments about animals.
Humans in jails are just humans who choose to do bad and stupid things, they have no relation to animals.
I would trust my dog, even if he were wearing a people suit, even if he can't predetermine or choose (although I know he can, I've seen him do it) over any humans, he's incapable of lying

It doesn't have to be a choice between living on board and having a "normal" life of the sort that can give you financial security and a good job, although I'd imagine that living on board while being in the Navy would be problematic. There are plenty of people who work at a normal job but live on board, then they take off and go cruising for a year or so; it's endemic in my family! Up in the Newport Puddle years ago there were labourers, tradies, an air hosty, carnies, a nurse and (I think) a physio all living on board while they saved up for the next cruise.

A couple I know both got to very senior positions in higher education (ie running a government college) while living on board. Not only that, they raced most weekends in the season and were British offshore racing Yacht of the Year several times. They would roll the carpets up on Friday, sail from England's East Coast to the Solent, do a 180 mile race, then sail home for work on Monday! Years ago they gave up racing and went world cruising, with the nice bank balance they had gained from all those years of not paying rent and the ability to buy a house when and where they wanted. So you can do both - work 9 to 5 to get a career while living on board, and then go sailing on weekends and during holidays to build up experience for when your bank balance is looking good enough to head for the Louisiades.

As Ramona and MB say, the coast is full of old guys scraping by and living on boats. Many of them started sailing so late that they are scared of sailing, and they started saving so late that their boats aren't up to it. Superficially many of them seem to be happy and laid back, but when you're living aboard near them and get to know them, you start to wonder if they are dying and crying inside. If they'd lived on board while working they could have saved up a nice little nest egg.

If you bought a boat and lived aboard while working and taking the occasionally year or two off to go cruising, in the end you'd be able to save the deposit for a property ashore to rent out and get your life and finances together in other ways, so you won't end up as one of the sad poor men that other liveaboarders keep an affectionate but worried eye on. Living on board in Sydney isn't perfect, but it's a lot better than many alternatives.

By the way, there's some information about the trades that work well for cruisers on the 'net and in books. My brother and his wife were shocked last tie they took a year off - when they were in their 20s and cruising, they were one of the young couples. Now they are in their 40s and cruising, they are still one of the younger couples because now cruising in Oz is apparently full of rich retirees with humungous and complex boats. So apparently many cruising destinations have rich cruisers who desperately need someone to fix their luxury yacht's diesel, dodger, refrigeration systems, etc etc etc. Even hairdressers can earn good pocket money from other cruisers, apparently.

Just touching on Alan Lucas. His old yacht Renee Tieghe is moored just up the Creek from me.
What a sad and sorry sight she is. Totally neglected and going to rack and ruin.
She's a beautifully shaped timber ketch, still looking solid but sorely in need of love and a bit of
restoration.
How the owner could let her get to a state like this God only knows......a real shame.
This is the boat that Alan and his wife did their coastal cruising and mapping in.

Hi ya
I have a job where we take the Navy recruits out to sea from Cerberus for 4 Days ,so I see first hand what age they are.
Currently they have a lot of gap year students roughly strait out of school age.
on the odd occasion their are a lot of mature aged whom have picked up various trades worked the mines and now realising that the job market is tough out there they need security ,good medical an cheap morgage.

From my perspective I sailed the world most of my life 20yrs jumped on yachts racing from regatta to regatta around the world ,I was a boat bum had a sea bag went sailing no morgages ,,no keys ,or any off the modern day tie downs.
then about mid 40s decided to settle down ,get in debt,married divorced married.
It sounded like a clamours Life travelling ,boozing, girl in every port but deep down it was lonely ,yes lots of memories but memories don't pay bills or security or the dreaded superation nest egg.
When I did settle down there was a lot of financiall catching up to do ,hell even the electrol roll people caught up with me ,then I had to get a career ! sure I sailed over 100,000 ocean miles but never recorded my sea miles or gained any certificates of competency in those days it was who you know.sure I picked up a multitude of skills but no certificates

Now at 56 I have a dream job ,hold a multitude of certificates but it took a lot off crap jobs to get where I am now
I race yachts each week end ,have about 18 wks off a year where I help out delivering about 9 deliveries a year , I don't get paid just do it for the fun ,I am currently at sea off Coffs Harbour going nth ,then after Hammo sailing back to Victoria non stop ,then up north again to sail sth again in between go to work to look after the recruits.
If I had my time again I would have joined the Navy ,sailing will always be there and then you will have fun with some stability ,career, pension