The boats most people know as McGregors are trailer sailers with water ballast. A boat designed to satisfy the need for a large trailer sailer that can be towed by a relatively low powered car. As such it was spectacularly successful in the US, except that with water ballast, it can be dangerous if you dont know what you are doing, such as overloading and not filling the ballast tanks.

The father of one of my girlfriends many years ago, who was married to a rather large lady, told me that "you can always find something attractive in a lady". Same applies to boats. So we should not say that a particular design is totally bad. Rather, it would be better to merely point out apects which we consider to a be poor design in a particular boat. It might still suit some people despite this poor aspect.

My example: Compass Careel 18 mk1. A swing keeler trailer-sailer with minimum ballast ratio. Basically a dinghy with a lid. IMHO dangerous in certain conditions because it is not self-righting and can be knocked over and "turtled". For me this is totally unacceptable. However, for others, it does the job, and has a good support group, and sailing in company in inland waters, it is just fine.

Ok 1960 how much would that mc Gregor cost new ?
Average new car price was $2750 .
At 58 yrs old its probably more expensive than new .
The 1960 model is not the motor sailor that i think is being referred to cisco .
The mc Gregor 26 was the most produced production boat ever with 1 rolling out the door ever 6 hrs so some people must like them.
38000 of them bought them new .
I see the apeal of being about to just take off somewhere new ,throw the boat in for the weekend being able to tow kids for fun & if wind picks up sail around fish & generally have some fun .
What other sort of boat thats trailerable can sleep 6 have galley & enclosed head ?
I dont know.
Either in power or sail ?

I see a 2004 for $39 000
A 2009 for $42 000
And a 2011 for $54500
The last model sold was 2013 at $35000 us new so say $48500 au .
So they seem to be holding there price well .

Any boat that gets people out onto the water and promotes a good experience is I believe a worthwhile vessel. All boats will never appeal to everyone but just because a boat may not appeal to you or I it is not automatically a bad boat. We all have our personal tastes and we should not attempt to inflict those tastes onto others nor should we accept others tastes to be superior to our own. To each their own.

actiomax said..
Ok 1960 how much would that mc Gregor cost new ?
Average new car price was $2750 .
At 58 yrs old its probably more expensive than new .
The 1960 model is not the motor sailor that i think is being referred to cisco .
The mc Gregor 26 was the most produced production boat ever with 1 rolling out the door ever 6 hrs so some people must like them.
38000 of them bought them new .
I see the apeal of being about to just take off somewhere new ,throw the boat in for the weekend being able to tow kids for fun & if wind picks up sail around fish & generally have some fun .
What other sort of boat thats trailerable can sleep 6 have galley & enclosed head ?
I dont know.
Either in power or sail ?

I see a 2004 for $39 000
A 2009 for $42 000
And a 2011 for $54500
The last model sold was 2013 at $35000 us new so say $48500 au .
So they seem to be holding there price well .

There are two on Gumtree with starting price of 30 grand and under. There are hundreds of them available in the USA and if I was looking for a trailersailer/caravan that's going to spend most of it's life on a trailer where lets face it most damage is done, I would import an older model. No different than bringing in a caravan.

www.ebay.com/itm/Sailboat-Macgregor-1992-26ft/312365192696?hash=item48ba6a95f8:g:ktIAAOSwZ8pcDXuR:rk:22:pf:0

I don't really see much harm in a discussion on known issues of boats.eg XYZ is a 'bad' boat because the keel bolts were known to be undersize etc or whatever, or that a mk2 version of a Tophat was better because....There's a lot of experience here and if I was tyre kicking a potential purchase, that would help.

If I owned a boat criticised in the thread, I could not give a toss, go sailing, it's mine.

Trying to understand the various design implications in each boat is half of the fun, once you get an idea, then it's your decision to decide if that impacts on your concept of an 'ideal boat'

As for the Mac, no, not for me.
I would have guessed a Laser or maybe even Hobie would have sold more than a Macgregor?

Aye Bristol, that's a positive Spin on an elusive subject. But I as I was trying to suggest in my previous comment, if you are of the opinion that a particular vessel make is a lemon, dog, $hi! Box, then it would be most useful for 1st hand comment other than some well developed bias from reading endless opinion while sitting in the comfort of an armchair

Seebreasy73 said..

woko said..
Aye Bristol, that's a positive Spin on an elusive subject. But I as I was trying to suggest in my previous comment, if you are of the opinion that a particular vessel make is a lemon, dog, $hi! Box, then it would be most useful for 1st hand comment other than some well developed bias from reading endless opinion while sitting in the comfort of an armchair

so why don't you start with one of those comments. If you have cared to read all the discussions in the thread, I have stated that I would have if I had a bad one. I tell it as it is, like it or not. I started this thread, because the industry is full of "goodwill" and also there are plenty amongst yachties, who would sell a shoyt box as "fantastic boat" mate, and would care not if you sunk with it the way home.
There is no discussion, no statistics about bad apples about boats and as a prospective buyer not so long ago, it is hard to avoid the endless money pits if people deny they exist. I have hard to believe that you had not one boat that now, looking back at, would not buy again.

Yeah, that's fine BUT one boat may be a shoyt box, not because of design or manufacture faults but purely because some d******d didn't maintain it and sold it on rather than fix it. Should all of that marque or model be branded on a public forum by some vocal disappointed purchaser because he or she didn't look hard enough before purchase? I really don't believe that this can yield positive results, primarily because it is so subjective.

woko said..

Seebreasy73 said..

woko said..
Aye Bristol, that's a positive Spin on an elusive subject. But I as I was trying to suggest in my previous comment, if you are of the opinion that a particular vessel make is a lemon, dog, $hi! Box, then it would be most useful for 1st hand comment other than some well developed bias from reading endless opinion while sitting in the comfort of an armchair

so why don't you start with one of those comments. If you have cared to read all the discussions in the thread, I have stated that I would have if I had a bad one. I tell it as it is, like it or not. I started this thread, because the industry is full of "goodwill" and also there are plenty amongst yachties, who would sell a shoyt box as "fantastic boat" mate, and would care not if you sunk with it the way home.
There is no discussion, no statistics about bad apples about boats and as a prospective buyer not so long ago, it is hard to avoid the endless money pits if people deny they exist. I have hard to believe that you had not one boat that now, looking back at, would not buy again.

No need to be so defensive SB, none of that comment was aimed at you.
The point I was making is that anyone can say whatever they please without any sort of checkable credibility

If you really want a good example of self opiniated armchair experts then google my boat it gets the biggest dump by the biggest amount of people whom have problely never sailed at all and certainly not the boat in question.

if vessel Type ...... Gets a good rating does that mean that each and every one is a well maintained and presented, no of course not.

And while we're on the subject All BOATS are an endless money pit, there's no such thing as a free lunch, the less you pay for it the more you will need to spend. Alternatively buy a brand new number

Otherwize, as a good friend of mine often says, the cheapest way to go boating is to get a mate who's got one

no offense, but don't throw a punch first saying that "easy to talk from comfort of a chair" than turn around and say "no need to be defensive".

Secondly, one can put a spin on anything and make it good. And what does "the cheapest way to go boating is to get a mate who's got one" has to do with the title of this thread?

If you do not wish to know the apparent truth, that is fine, but as my old man used to say "just because you deny that the sky is blue, it doesn't change the fact that actually it is". And that is, there are boats more than others that one should stay away from.

twodogs1969 said..

If you do not wish to know the apparent truth, that is fine, but as my old man used to say "just because you deny that the sky is blue, it doesn't change the fact that actually it is". And that is, there are boats more than others that one should stay away from.

Which is like some people's opinions are best to stay away from.

no, nothing wrong with any opinions, like in everything, there is some good. As long as the opinion stays on the title of this thread.

Bristolfashion said..

UncleBob said..

Seebreasy73 said..

woko said..
Aye Bristol, that's a positive Spin on an elusive subject. But I as I was trying to suggest in my previous comment, if you are of the opinion that a particular vessel make is a lemon, dog, $hi! Box, then it would be most useful for 1st hand comment other than some well developed bias from reading endless opinion while sitting in the comfort of an armchair

so why don't you start with one of those comments. If you have cared to read all the discussions in the thread, I have stated that I would have if I had a bad one. I tell it as it is, like it or not. I started this thread, because the industry is full of "goodwill" and also there are plenty amongst yachties, who would sell a shoyt box as "fantastic boat" mate, and would care not if you sunk with it the way home.
There is no discussion, no statistics about bad apples about boats and as a prospective buyer not so long ago, it is hard to avoid the endless money pits if people deny they exist. I have hard to believe that you had not one boat that now, looking back at, would not buy again.

Yeah, that's fine BUT one boat may be a shoyt box, not because of design or manufacture faults but purely because some d******d didn't maintain it and sold it on rather than fix it. Should all of that marque or model be branded on a public forum by some vocal disappointed purchaser because he or she didn't look hard enough before purchase? I really don't believe that this can yield positive results, primarily because it is so subjective.

But then how do people ever come up with lists of "good" yachts - however good the design, there will always be poorly maintained or altered examples.

Cheers Bristol

majority vote

EC31 said..
I have just completed my second trip round trip from Pittwater to the Whitsundays in my 1976 IOR.

I carried a small symmetrical spinnaker, and used it as an asso when the conditions suited it (beam reach, light conditions) 2 handed. Dead down wind up to 15 knots used a poled headsail (single & 2 handed). Used both sails and engine only and all other combinations as the conditions dictated. Yes, she rolls downwind, but set the sails to suit and the problem goes away. Goes like a train to windward tho.

Set the sails to suit the conditions and all boats can be great to be on. My boat has no nasty vices, enjoys a strong breeze and is a delight to helm. Also many old boat are still quicker than newer, larger productions boats as the race results at Hammo and Airlie will show.

From my perspective, a boat to stay away from is one that has not been loved.

but you have done it in a sturdy, well built and designed boat with good reputation. You can love any boat, boats that are underbuilt too, however, this will not make it any safer to sail in

Seebreasy73 said..

EC31 said..
I have just completed my second trip round trip from Pittwater to the Whitsundays in my 1976 IOR.

I carried a small symmetrical spinnaker, and used it as an asso when the conditions suited it (beam reach, light conditions) 2 handed. Dead down wind up to 15 knots used a poled headsail (single & 2 handed). Used both sails and engine only and all other combinations as the conditions dictated. Yes, she rolls downwind, but set the sails to suit and the problem goes away. Goes like a train to windward tho.

Set the sails to suit the conditions and all boats can be great to be on. My boat has no nasty vices, enjoys a strong breeze and is a delight to helm. Also many old boat are still quicker than newer, larger productions boats as the race results at Hammo and Airlie will show.

From my perspective, a boat to stay away from is one that has not been loved.

but you have done it in a sturdy, well built and designed boat with good reputation. You can love any boat, boats that are underbuilt too, however, this will not make it any safer to sail in

most of the the boats you are worried about will out last you and me and our children !! nearly all old fin keelers will handle more weather than the crew !!!