Surprise, surprise ... another side of the story appears (from the Zone)
----- [accused brand]
This is TOTALLY FALSE!! [accused brand] has not copied [other brand]'s designs with a computer or in any other way. You cannot own measurements, & some of our measurements maybe close(they are not the same). This does not give anyone a right to falsely accuse [accused brand] of copying any shapes. All of [accused brand] SUP's are in no way the same exact size or measurements as [other brand]'s. Just because we have chosen to go with a full length deck pad, & so did [other brand] that does not make our SUP's identical. In our opion there is no real perfect dimension for SUP's, because everyone differs in size, weight, & ability. We have chosen to go a route that is different from the rest of the industry, we are making SUP's shorter, wider, & thicker. We want to make SUP's easy to stand on, let the customer say "This is easy, I like this sport, & I can do this." The rest of the industry is going shorter, narrower, thinner, & that is great & they are pushing the envelope on more maneuverability, & high performance SUP's for surfing. Now if we make a SUP that is 10'0 X 32 1/2 X 4 3/4 for a guy that is 6'1 & 240lbs because he is a little experienced & wants to ride a shorter SUP, & [other brand] makes a 10'0 X 29 1/2 X 4 1/2 I do not know what his intention for his shape is. In no way have we COPIED [other brand], you can disect all of my shapes & his & you can come up with what ever you like. One similarity is [accused brand] has a round pin tail, so what! We have been trying to create a stable SUP, & keeping the tail as a round pin keeps the tail wide for stability. Our rails are different, they are more tapered, the foil, the measurements are different, & our fins & placement are different. In fact we have created our way of constructing our SUP's to keep them light weight & ultra strong. All of our SUP's are hand shaped, with a foam core stinger, then we put a 4oz layer of glass, then a very thin wood veneer(like a door skin), then a layer of 6oz cloth. Then we also put the pigment(the color blue, green, white, orange, etc) in the epoxy with a sand finish. We did this because when you hit the rails of the SUP, the paint with not chip away, & if you get a scuff you can just use some wet 200 grit & sand the scuffs away & your SUP will look brand new again. So for all you shapers, if you think its a great idea to put the pigment in the epoxy, go right ahead & do it! We will not jump on your case & accuse you of stealing our idea, or if you want to build your construction as we have with the 2 layers of glass with the wood veneer sandwich between them, I will not call you as a hack!
----- [accused brand]
It is really easy to attack a company or an individual behind the security of your home computer, to assume and rely on statements made without any credibility or fact. Nice for you all to sit back and slam a competitor because they are generating sales and growing in popularity. In a failing economy one might think about ways to capitalize one company above another, what better way to do so than by publically slamming a reputable business with ordinary "shop talk." This type of behavior is just plain un called for. Rumors are the root of all gossip. Anyone who knows anything about surfing has an opinion of what works and what doesn't work in a shape of a board. With SUPing still at it's infancy stage, we all continue to learn what works and what doesn't work so well. Nobody has the "perfect" shape or dimension, that is why there are so many shapes and sizes. Conversations between surfers and shapers happen all day long, in the water, on the shore, at a show, this interest in another's work is not theivery, merely discussion of their passion.
[accused brand]'s designs may look similar to others, as do all SUPs and Big Boards in general, some with more familiarity than others. Just because one shaper or company chooses to create "round pin tails" or "square tails" or a more "pulled in nose," "concave bottom" or "soft or hard rails" does this mean its a copy? All of [accused brand]'s boards are "hand shaped," not molds, not pop outs and not computer generated. How can you copy a "hand shaped" board? Even boards within [accused brand]'s quiver of the same size are all individually different because they are each indivually made. As for "ordering" boards from other shapers to "copy" their shape, this comment is completely untrue. Whatever conversations that may or may not have allegedly taken place are mere hearsay.
Research and Development is just that, gathering and sharing knowledge in the development of a product. Research means to search or search for again, and is the diligent and systematic inquiry or investigation into a particular subject or thing. Development is the act of processing that research to its maturity. R & D is something all companies do and something all good businessmen and women practice. Dimensions are merely measurements in length, width, and thickness, they are not "owned" by anyone no more than we own a circle and you own a square.
Things presented to the public are not always true, nor as they may seem or appear, making unwarranted verbal and written public accusations is slander and libel. Libel by definition is the act of publishing in print (including pictures), writing or broadcast through radio, television or film, an untruth about another which will do harm to that person or his/her reputation, by tending to bring the target into ridicule, hatred, scorn or contempt of others.... Publication need only be to one person, but it must be a statement which claims to be fact and is not clearly identified as an opinion. While it is sometimes said that the person making the libelous statement must have been intentional and malicious, actually it need only be obvious that the statement would do harm and is untrue.
Becarful of what you say and what you write in print particularly when this is based upon unfounded material.
----B Chambers
I was just writing about this very topic. I will explain what I mean. This is not something 2 shapers can happen upon when designing boards. Similarties that go well beyond any reasonable doubt are all easy to confirm because the original files are all on computer. I would withdraw the word "EXACT" and go with "well beyond any reasonable doubt" that what we have here is taking one shapers board and taking through the process of duplicating design.
BTW, I have no qualms of ANY companies out there doing the right thing. I am friends with plenty of the "Competitve" brands that are way bigger and sell a lot more boards. What bothers me is companies doing less than ethical things that hurt others. What's right is right and wrong is wrong. The computer doesn't lie. All original files are stored and ready.
Time leaves tracks. 3 years is a long time to leave plenty tracks and people are waiting in the wings to tell the truth even in a court of law if needed. Think back to the last 3 years of your life and all things that went on. Now picture a bunch of people who are willing to step forward and explain their side of the story. All with proof. Randy, I think its time to delete this thread and let all the parties involved sort this thing out... Thank you for putting up with it all this time. You have done the industry a great service by letting this go this long. This is my last post on the matter... Thank you everyone for your view points... BC
--- stoneaxe
Wait a second......someones reputation gets trashed and as soon as he starts to defend himself...as he was called out to do...you want to delete the thread because you don't like the way its turning?
That's not fair in my book! I have no idea what wrongs may have been committed but if your going to start talking about someone you better be prepared to back up your words. If the shoe was on the other foot and this thread was about someone saying that PSH had copied designs I'm sure you would want it kept alive so that you could have as much opportunity to have your say as that person.
This topic will not be deleted, as it's only fair that the alternate viewpoint also gets aired. Who knows what the "truth" is, as it's all rumour and counterpoint.
As the Dire Straights song says .. "two men say they're jesus, one of em must be wrong"
