over 35 and think your covered when you compete and train- probably not for the event that happened to me.


i put in a claim with supsa through queensland surfing for my heart attack while training.


just got a letter back today for the brokers for calliden sports insurance- down the line from sports underwriting australia or something. took me a call to melbourne, sydney and then brisbane to see if anyone actually received the claim



pointed out to me on 'MY POLICY' if you please, about full disclosure -ie the nitty gritty my age which i did on my membership form. i have never seen a policy- i just pay the fee built into my membership.

seems like someone has failed to inform the insurers that sup clubs have a lot of older members.


the second part of the notice- what's not covered- further details on page 17 under exclusion 2b:


2 death disability or injury that is due to-


b)a heart condition, stroke or other cardiovascular condition if a member is over 35 years of age



so if you have a attack under 35 years old your covered. what a joke


our club prez is not very happy at all.


i suggest club members, presidents and surfers who are members with Surfing Australia and all the state branch or other insurers check up to see what the insurance policies actually covers.

i'm not very happy and now very suss about all the 'go with the established organisation who have the good insurance caper', but by posting this, if it means someone else doesn't miss out it will be worth while

Insurance is a joke

Towny said..

Insurance is a joke

Yep , as they say read the fine print! Under sub section B which if you can find it is quite a bit back from section Z which states that sub section B is null and void if you have any conditions relating to sub section F paragraph four.

teatrea said..

Towny said..

Insurance is a joke

Yep , as they say read the fine print! Under sub section B which if you can find it is quite a bit back from section Z which states that sub section B is null and void if you have any conditions relating to sub section F paragraph four.

yep the fine print was in the 24 page policy version they sent with the news, not the one we got of sq which was a 14 page policy.

Thanks Lacey for this info. The insurance side is one of the big selling points with these organisations. Based on which event you enter at the moment in NSW you either need to join Surfing NSW, SUP Australia or Paddle NSW. Perhaps we should all look at the various policies that they have and what they actually cover.

We're in the process of launching the racing division of the Sydney Paddle Surfing club and in the next 6 months having a full amalgamation. We'll certainly be looking at this very closely and I'll be talking to Peasey about it in detail as there'll be power in numbers. (No need to charge me for insurance in the 12 Towers Peasey as I'm just over 35)

Glad your getting better mate.

OME

so you have a copy of the policy in front of you i presume

What would have been payable amount under the policy if the heart attack sufferer was under 35 years of age?

Ali Cat said..

Husq,

SUPSA has its own club insurance (public liability etc.) which covers the club and its members during sanctioned club events (I personally haven't seen or read the PDS and don't know exactly what it covers, but I know it needs to be in place for any club to be incorporated or registered).

Separate to this Club Insurance, as of 2013, Surfing Queensland negotiated a limited insurance policy with their brokers for 'financial members of affiliated clubs' to be covered 'whilst surfing or undertaking a surf-related activity (incl. SUP) at ANY TIME and ANYWHERE within Australia'. This additional policy is what Mark's claim is in reference to.

To make it affordable (approx. $6 per member per year) I was aware that the cover was relatively limited, however I had (wrongly) assumed that this limitation would apply to the amount of benefits payable, rather than excluding conditions (such as Mark's) that most, if not all, of us would consider perfectly reasonable grounds for a claim.

I had seen a 'summary' of the policy coverage back in 2012 when they were looking at introducing the system in 2012, and don't recall any exclusions such as this being highlighted in that summary, but again I have not seen the full PDS, and from Marks comments it appears he wasn't even provided with the insurance company's version of this document when he was given the information package for how to lodge a claim.

Really sorry to hear the outcome Mark and pretty disappointed too, as I was under the impression that the insurance was suppose to be there to assist those who need it, rather than exclude them.

Thats all good, Im certainly not trying to take anything away from the horrible event Mark has and is going through, nor the amazing efforts by ALL that helped save him.

I just posted my PERSONAL OPINION on this sort of claim under the circumstances.

As a licensed trades person, I have to have public liability and private income protection just to legally get work. I also choose to have private health cover.

Due you think it fair for a insurance policy, that is not a HEALTH policy, to cover incidents that are a direct relation to previous defects or life style relating to health?

Not a great outcome Lacey.

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/SUP/Stand-up-and-be-counted-with-us-longboarders/

However everyone can help, this account will close this Friday so please chip in, sounds like a good time too.

husq2100 said..

Ali Cat said..

Husq,

SUPSA has its own club insurance (public liability etc.) which covers the club and its members during sanctioned club events (I personally haven't seen or read the PDS and don't know exactly what it covers, but I know it needs to be in place for any club to be incorporated or registered).

Separate to this Club Insurance, as of 2013, Surfing Queensland negotiated a limited insurance policy with their brokers for 'financial members of affiliated clubs' to be covered 'whilst surfing or undertaking a surf-related activity (incl. SUP) at ANY TIME and ANYWHERE within Australia'. This additional policy is what Mark's claim is in reference to.

To make it affordable (approx. $6 per member per year) I was aware that the cover was relatively limited, however I had (wrongly) assumed that this limitation would apply to the amount of benefits payable, rather than excluding conditions (such as Mark's) that most, if not all, of us would consider perfectly reasonable grounds for a claim.

I had seen a 'summary' of the policy coverage back in 2012 when they were looking at introducing the system in 2012, and don't recall any exclusions such as this being highlighted in that summary, but again I have not seen the full PDS, and from Marks comments it appears he wasn't even provided with the insurance company's version of this document when he was given the information package for how to lodge a claim.

Really sorry to hear the outcome Mark and pretty disappointed too, as I was under the impression that the insurance was suppose to be there to assist those who need it, rather than exclude them.

Thats all good, Im certainly not trying to take anything away from the horrible event Mark has and is going through, nor the amazing efforts by ALL that helped save him.

I just posted my PERSONAL OPINION on this sort of claim under the circumstances.

As a licensed trades person, I have to have public liability and private income protection just to legally get work. I also choose to have private health cover.

Due you think it fair for a insurance policy, that is not a HEALTH policy, to cover incidents that are a direct relation to previous defects or life style relating to health?

Husq,

Firstly I want to state I don't know what is written in the Surf Aust Policy.

If I took the SUP Vic Policy from I what I have been told by others, interpreted from those that have it gives me the impression that I am fully covered for:

All SUP Vic sanctioned SUP events
Training for SUP events
Competing at SUP events
Possibly other coverage?

I have never asked what specifically that coverage is?

I have never asked to see what the exclusions are?

I have never seen the disclosure document or fine print and I never asked to.

To my knowledge no one has ever had to claimed so it has never been tested.

Most of these insurance polices are off the rack Surfing, Tourism or Outdoor Events coverage products with specific requested modifications.

The problem with SUP is the diversification of disciplines " Surf, Race, BOP, Rapids Riding etc etc) and locations from flat water to rivers to downwinders.

You can just about bet none of these policies in isolation cover all those instances and they were never designed to.

If I'm training and I jump on a board and paddle out to do a downwinder in 50kn training for Molakai (highly unlikely) am I covered?

Does SUP Vic sanction the Molakai Event?

Have I specifically told them I am training for Molakai?

Would the insurer provide cover?

I don't know, but I doubt it!

The down wind activity carried on in 50kt in isolation may or may not meet accepted safe industry practices and that may or may not make the policy void.

This would be judged on a case by case basis

The same run in 25kt may be covered?


The VOLUNTEERS that bust their butts on the committees are not insurance experts and get advice from the Peak Bodies and Insurers and do their best to get the best result for their members.

A dive club I was involved in for many years got the insurance supplier to meet with the members annually to discuss these sorts of points so everyone could ask questions and make comments.

Its pretty much a mine field for everyone.

OG SUP said..

I'm not sure but I think this is the generic SA / SQ 2013 policy not the renegotiated one, makes for some interesting reading and shows what you may or may not be covered for:

http://www.surfingqueensland.com/docs/sportsgrouppersonalaccidentpds2013.pdf

Just to clarify this document isn't the policy it is the Product Disclosure Statement (PDS) that insurance companies are legislated to provide.
Once you have bought a policy you then should receive a larger document which is the policy and you normally have a 21-day cooling off period if you don't accept the T&C's of the policy.
The issue is SUP clubs haven't been receiving the policy document and in this case aren't being notified of all the T&C's until after a claim is made.
Not sure if this an oversight of Surfing QLD or the insurance company.

husq2100 said..

Sorry Phil, I do not see why you have quoted me given your post??

My point was simple. Im not saying Im right or wrong. Its just how I saw it. Whether you would be covered under all those examples you gave is not the point I was making, and what cover would you be looking for when participating in those examples???

I was simply seeing the incident as not SUP related. i.e Mark could have just as easily had the attack going for a run. No club, no insurance, just a good old fashioned run. If he was injured by a board, paddle or person in his SUP club activites, then I would have thought that be the sort of thing covered.

I get there is a lot of emotion attached to this subject.

I despise insurance companies. I have had some terrible dealings with them and look to avoid them wherever possible.

In saying that I do actually agree with Husq here (not sure I ever have before). I would have thought that SUP insurance is for strictly sup related issues, And while I really feel for what Mark has gone through, and without ever having met still followed progress closely, I am not sure that the given insurance was ever designed to cover this sort of situation. Much the same as I am pretty sure my car insurance won't cover my medical bills if I have a heart attack while driving.

laceys lane said..

aus301 said..

husq2100 said..

Sorry Phil, I do not see why you have quoted me given your post??

My point was simple. Im not saying Im right or wrong. Its just how I saw it. Whether you would be covered under all those examples you gave is not the point I was making, and what cover would you be looking for when participating in those examples???

I was simply seeing the incident as not SUP related. i.e Mark could have just as easily had the attack going for a run. No club, no insurance, just a good old fashioned run. If he was injured by a board, paddle or person in his SUP club activites, then I would have thought that be the sort of thing covered.

I get there is a lot of emotion attached to this subject.

I despise insurance companies. I have had some terrible dealings with them and look to avoid them wherever possible.

In saying that I do actually agree with Husq here (not sure I ever have before). I would have thought that SUP insurance is for strictly sup related issues, And while I really feel for what Mark has gone through, and without ever having met still followed progress closely, I am not sure that the given insurance was ever designed to cover this sort of situation. Much the same as I am pretty sure my car insurance won't cover my medical bills if I have a heart attack while driving.

http://www.surfingqueensland.com/docs/sportsgrouppersonalaccidentpds2013.pdf.


the fact is i was never shown any policy for a review

Mark, if the core issue here is lack of transparency by the insurer or broker, then I totally agree.

its been quite a few days. as one chap mentioned earlier in the post. they have a duty of disclosure. as far as i've been advised each member should receive a copy of the policy for review and there is a certain cooling off period. you may or may not agree to those terms, you may want change those terms and work out a solution or the insurer may redraw.

the letter of bad news told me i should have disclosed my age and read the policy and terms which is unbelievable because they have never sent one to me or any other member that i'm aware of. i couldn't believe i was getting the blame for none disclosure for something i have never seen until A- i asked for a claim form. B the bad news letter with the extended policy was sent to me.


weather its right or wrong about what happened to me in regards to my HA is no the issue


anyway, lots of behind the scenes action i believe by the all the powers that be in the sup circles.

and i have personally received some very good advice and a coarse of action so i'll leave it at that now.

i'm no expert on these matters by any means and will now leave it to those that are


thankyou

All good but how about the sup crew chip into the donation account set up,I read all sorts of Aloha in this room time to show it guy's.

Thank You to the few from the SUP room who have donated however the longboarders have this one in the bag.I don't mean to be ungrateful however I'm sure this will be great assistance for Lacey.

AndyR said..

Mac how do we donate? I'll throw a few bob towards it.
Don't know the guy but he has offered great advice on a number of occasions to me threw this site. Every little bit helps I'm sure.

Cheers mate here's a link how it all started some longboard forum fun as well.

V
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Surfing/Longboarding/times-are-tough-cw-hotlog-up-for-grabs/